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Nice Twin cyl engine...West Germany. 50cc

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Nice Twin cyl engine...West Germany. 50cc

Old 08-03-2011, 01:42 PM
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captinjohn
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Default Nice Twin cyl engine...West Germany. 50cc

I converted my Kavan 50ccTwin cyl engine...from West Germany from glow to Rcxcel ignition. I used the same carb not knowing what to expect. Well it starts and runs real good. It will Idle so slow it is unreal. It is smooth as a silk. I ran it on 3 fuels now testing what it will do. Glow fuel=10%nitro....Srait menthanol....and pump gas. It will run on all 3 types of fuel with not much tunning. It has a more pronounced bark on gas. No kickback on starting...I have the spark retarded somewhat for a engine show I am going too. I like this engine very much. I bought the ignition from Jody at Valley View and got it fast. I will do a short video when I can get around to that. Best Regards Capt,n PS This engine is a 4 stroke with its own oil supply and oil pump.
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Old 08-03-2011, 01:52 PM
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Default RE: Nice Twin cyl engine...West Germany. 50cc

Mecoa was selling these quite some time ago, glow or gas. Rather heavy but very high quality. Great for a 1/3 scale cub.
Old 08-03-2011, 01:55 PM
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captinjohn
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Default RE: Nice Twin cyl engine...West Germany. 50cc


ORIGINAL: PlaneKrazee

Mecoa was selling these quite some time ago, glow or gas. Rather heavy but very high quality. Great for a 1/3 scale cub.
Not that heavy for a 50cc engine....I will post a photo of a Fly Baby I would like to place it in! Capt,n<hr />Also added photo of my Giles 202 at fly-in!<hr />
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Old 08-03-2011, 02:16 PM
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captinjohn
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Default RE: Nice Twin cyl engine...West Germany. 50cc

NOT A REPLY...A QUESTION

Would all you folks that have or had a Kavan 50cctwin post their experience with that engine. If you know someone that does not do the internet thing and may have data...imformation or photos of the airplanes that used this nice twin cyl engine. I have had mine for over 15 years, andit at engine shows at slow speed only. With this spark ignition, it will Idle so slow it seems unreal! Lots of fun. I do not run it long thow on idle....do not want it to over-heat. I use a temp gun to check for that. Capt,n
Old 08-03-2011, 03:18 PM
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Default RE: Nice Twin cyl engine...West Germany. 50cc

5 1/2 pounds 4 1/2 hp on methanol. Designed to run on methanol.
Old 08-03-2011, 05:26 PM
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Default RE: Nice Twin cyl engine...West Germany. 50cc


ORIGINAL: PlaneKrazee

5 1/2 pounds 4 1/2 hp on methanol. Designed to run on methanol.
They made 2 versions....here is the link....

http://mecoa.com/kavan/index.htm
Old 08-03-2011, 06:40 PM
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Default RE: Nice Twin cyl engine...West Germany. 50cc

definitely post some video of it! if you dont mind me asking, what did you pay for it 15 years ago?
Old 08-03-2011, 07:01 PM
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ORIGINAL: MetallicaJunkie

definitely post some video of it! if you dont mind me asking, what did you pay for it 15 years ago?
I bought it from a guy in British Columbia and paid about what a new G62 Zenoah would cost now. I sure would not trade or sell it. I did a search on the internet for one in 1995 or 96. Another person tipped me to the person who owned it. Bought it and when I got it I removed the oil pan and could tell it never was run...but oiled up nice inside. I worked at Continental Motors for 35 years and had a photo of one in my tool box at work. Well I got lucky and found one. Sure like it a lot. I change the oil every third show weekend I do. It only takes 20cc of oil for that. It has a magnetic drainplug and a finned oil pan. It looks...runs like new. Love it!!!!!!! Now has electronic ignition!!!!! Best Regards, Capt,n
Old 08-03-2011, 11:46 PM
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Default RE: Nice Twin cyl engine...West Germany. 50cc

that be the equivelant of about 900 bucks today....pricey but worth it...its very rare and sure it sounds nice!

what oil does it take? so you just run straight gas or methanol
Old 08-04-2011, 12:55 AM
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Default RE: Nice Twin cyl engine...West Germany. 50cc

Kavan made three Mk's all available with ignition, all designed to run methanol, not gas. The MK I had a weak gear in it that was changed in later versions. Yours is a MK I? There are several threads relating to this engine from 2002 in which you were involved. Also a few videos on youtube. You got it for a good price. Before Mecoa was selling them they retailed for $1500.00 or so at Hobby Lobby. Today a MK I NIB goes for around $750.00-$1000.00 or what the market will bear. I contacted Kavan in Germany back in 2002 but can't remeber the conversation clearly and they wre purchased by Sig in 2003.

Since only a few parts are available, I would recommend running some castor mixed in the fuel like the manual says otherwise it will become a very pretty, heavy paperweight.

There's another guy in Michigan trying to sell a NIB MK I now. An OS 300 weights over a pound less and makes the same or more power and again the Kavan is not designed to run gas.

The oil sump was a novelty and the oil pump is not a geared pump. Crankcase pressure and check valves on a regular four stroke will do the same thing.
Old 08-04-2011, 01:47 AM
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Default RE: Nice Twin cyl engine...West Germany. 50cc

Kavan FK50 MKI, 2 Cylinder Opposed Model Airplane Engine Designed and Built by Franz Kavan, Germany, mid-1980s
The engine burns methanol on glow ignition. Later production engines became available with a shielded spark ignition. Placing the spark-plug wires into a metal casing (braided tubing) eliminates radio interference generated by the spark plugs, essential when flying radio-controlled model aircraft.

This is one of the earliest model-airplane engines with an oil sump that holds lubricating oil for the crankcase components. It is known as a splash oil system. The crankshaft is partially submerged into the oil level in the sump. As it spins, it slings oil throughout the entire crankcase assembly. The upper combustion chamber, rocker arms and valves are lubricated by oil mixed with the fuel.The engine resembles the 4-cylinder Continental C-85 (minus two cylinders) commonly used in a Piper Cub Airplane.

Courtesy of Paul and Paula Knapp
Miniature Engineering Museum
engine-museum.com
Old 08-04-2011, 04:49 AM
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Default RE: Nice Twin cyl engine...West Germany. 50cc

I read about the engine before I even ran it. I always mixed Klotz oi l(with castor)in the fuel from start. The short run on gas I had a mix of 30-1Penzoil air-cooled engines....so it got plenty of lube. I run the engine only for short runs and I do not rev it up very much at all. The sound of the engine is best at lower RPM.s anyway. Remember I run it as a show engine. It does run best on Glow fuel but it is very good on fuel and runs super on that. If tunned a little...it runs good on all 3 types of fuel I mentioned. It will never be a paper weight. I can take any engine down and replace that gear if needed. In fact I got a friend that cuts gears...and if you seen the work he does...you would be blown away with.envey.
As far as worth...I seen a kinda grubby one goe for more than what you say quite fast at the toledo expo. Sure wish I could get some photos and real input to this thread, but there is not very many of these engines floating around like many other common run of the mill engines talked about. All people want to talk about here is cheap this and that. I am sure there are neat stories to be told...but people mostley do not take the time or do not do the forums...it is kinda a waste of time in some respects. It is a good place to lear from the right guys....the ones you know like Antique, Bill at CH Ignitions, Jody and TOM. Ther are others...but not many. It is a shame most of these guys that know there stuff are not really appreciated to the extent they should be. Capt,n
Old 08-04-2011, 11:00 AM
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Default RE: Nice Twin cyl engine...West Germany. 50cc

If you do a little more reading you would find you need to do some machining inside the engine to change the gear. Google Kavan 50. You'll find a wealth of info and no body flys this collector's item.

The last LNIB Mk I w/ spare cylinders and heads sold here on rcu for $699.00 shipped in 2007. Less than what I got for my used Enya VT240. Hobby Shack sold the Kavan MK I for $899.00 in the 80's. It's a nice engine but it's not made to any scale and it's only 1/2 of the four cylinder full scale engine.
Old 08-04-2011, 02:11 PM
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Default RE: Nice Twin cyl engine...West Germany. 50cc

The 50 was built By Kavan to be an operational model of the Continental engine. IMHO, they were meant to fly.
Old 08-04-2011, 02:32 PM
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captinjohn
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Default RE: Nice Twin cyl engine...West Germany. 50cc


ORIGINAL: PlaneKrazee

If you do a little more reading you would find you need to do some machining inside the engine to change the gear. Google Kavan 50. You'll find a wealth of info and no body flys this collector's item.

The last LNIB Mk I w/ spare cylinders and heads sold here on rcu for $699.00 shipped in 2007. Less than what I got for my used Enya VT240. Hobby Shack sold the Kavan MK I for $899.00 in the 80's. It's a nice engine but it's not made to any scale and it's only 1/2 of the four cylinder full scale engine.
So spit it out....what and why is this mahining need to be done? You seem to be a pro on this engine. I did read a guy flew a J3 with the Kavan 50 and a TV station filmed it. Now I know you cannot fly all kinds of manuvers, (bcause ofoil in sump) but if you fly scale and sensible, this engine should last for years. But on the other hand....some people can screw up anything! I change the oil every 3rd or forth run.
Old 08-04-2011, 04:04 PM
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Default RE: Nice Twin cyl engine...West Germany. 50cc


ORIGINAL: captinjohn


ORIGINAL: PlaneKrazee

If you do a little more reading you would find you need to do some machining inside the engine to change the gear. Google Kavan 50. You'll find a wealth of info and no body flys this collector's item.

The last LNIB Mk I w/ spare cylinders and heads sold here on rcu for $699.00 shipped in 2007. Less than what I got for my used Enya VT240. Hobby Shack sold the Kavan MK I for $899.00 in the 80's. It's a nice engine but it's not made to any scale and it's only 1/2 of the four cylinder full scale engine.
So spit it out....what and why is this mahining need to be done? You seem to be a pro on this engine. I did read a guy flew a J3 with the Kavan 50 and a TV station filmed it. Now I know you cannot fly all kinds of manuvers, (bcause of oil in sump) but if you fly scale and sensible, this engine should last for years. But on the other hand....some people can screw up anything! I change the oil every 3rd or forth run.

does the oil look a lot darker after 3 or four runs
Old 08-04-2011, 04:26 PM
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Default RE: Nice Twin cyl engine...West Germany. 50cc

Friend of mine has one....Flew it when new with a 20-10 prop on glow fuel...
There is a nylon gear inside that gets replaced in later versions...
Flew well on a heavy plane...
There was a 4 cycle event at a track in California nears ago, there were two there flying very well....Both on glow fuel...
I think one was given away at a pilots raffle or contest....
Old 08-04-2011, 04:28 PM
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captinjohn
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Default RE: Nice Twin cyl engine...West Germany. 50cc

The oil stays so clear it id hard to see it on the dipstick which was round...I milled a flat spot on it to see the oil level better. Well guys no more questions please....if you have one of the Kavan50 engines....we will exchange what you really know about the engine. Or just forget it. Capt,n

Old 08-04-2011, 05:06 PM
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Default RE: Nice Twin cyl engine...West Germany. 50cc


ORIGINAL: Antique

Friend of mine has one....Flew it when new with a 20-10 prop on glow fuel...
There is a nylon gear inside that gets replaced in later versions...
Flew well on a heavy plane...
There was a 4 cycle event at a track in California nears ago, there were two there flying very well....Both on glow fuel...
I think one was given away at a pilots raffle or contest....
Hi Antique, I finally got a reply that was of good report. Could you ask you friend what serial number his engine is sometime. Each engine has the srial number on top of crankcase by the split-line. If I remember right my engine is #0324. I did work at Continental Motors in Muskegon Mich for over 34 1/2 years. I guess that is why I wanted one. The Item I wish I had again is the Indian Scout Motorcycle ...first cycle I owned and I really miss it. I got to know every part on that cycle and it never let me down. Take care my friend.....Capt,n
Old 08-04-2011, 05:48 PM
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Default RE: Nice Twin cyl engine...West Germany. 50cc

ORIGINAL: captinjohn


ORIGINAL: PlaneKrazee

If you do a little more reading you would find you need to do some machining inside the engine to change the gear. Google Kavan 50. You'll find a wealth of info and no body flys this collector's item.

The last LNIB Mk I w/ spare cylinders and heads sold here on rcu for $699.00 shipped in 2007. Less than what I got for my used Enya VT240. Hobby Shack sold the Kavan MK I for $899.00 in the 80's. It's a nice engine but it's not made to any scale and it's only 1/2 of the four cylinder full scale engine.
So spit it out....what and why is this mahining need to be done? You seem to be a pro on this engine. I did read a guy flew a J3 with the Kavan 50 and a TV station filmed it. Now I know you cannot fly all kinds of manuvers, (bcause of oil in sump) but if you fly scale and sensible, this engine should last for years. But on the other hand....some people can screw up anything! I change the oil every 3rd or forth run.

I had a friend who owned one. Former master machinist at Pratt and Whitney back when they made round engines with lots of cylinders. He has since passed. I do know a great deal about this engine. I was going to buy one until he told me more about it's oiling system, weight and parts availabilty. It's a great looking, well built engine but as Antique pointed out he saw them fly years ago when they first came out. The guy that posted the most MK I videos on youtube is looking for valve train parts now.
I purchased a NIB OS 300 and two NIB Enya VT240's instead.
What's the matter cap? I have shared a bunch of accurate info but I guess it's not what you wanted to hear.
Old 08-04-2011, 07:37 PM
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Default RE: Nice Twin cyl engine...West Germany. 50cc


ORIGINAL: PlaneKrazee

ORIGINAL: captinjohn


ORIGINAL: PlaneKrazee

If you do a little more reading you would find you need to do some machining inside the engine to change the gear. Google Kavan 50. You'll find a wealth of info and no body flys this collector's item.

The last LNIB Mk I w/ spare cylinders and heads sold here on rcu for $699.00 shipped in 2007. Less than what I got for my used Enya VT240. Hobby Shack sold the Kavan MK I for $899.00 in the 80's. It's a nice engine but it's not made to any scale and it's only 1/2 of the four cylinder full scale engine.
So spit it out....what and why is this mahining need to be done? You seem to be a pro on this engine. I did read a guy flew a J3 with the Kavan 50 and a TV station filmed it. Now I know you cannot fly all kinds of manuvers, (bcause ofoil in sump) but if you fly scale and sensible, this engine should last for years. But on the other hand....some people can screw up anything! I change the oil every 3rd or forth run.

I had a friend who owned one. Former master machinist at Pratt and Whitney back when they made round engines with lots of cylinders. He has since passed. I do know a great deal about this engine. I was going to buy one until he told me more about it's oiling system, weight and parts availabilty. It's a great looking, well built engine but as Antique pointed out he saw them fly years ago when they first came out. The guy that posted the most MK I videos on youtube is looking for valve train parts now.
I purchased a NIB OS 300 and two NIB Enya VT240's instead.
What's the matter cap? I have shared a bunch of accurate info but I guess it's not what you wanted to hear.
Well Chap...I read about your Enya VT240,s that was not os good....I guess you may not like to hear that...so I will be polite and not go on & on about your sweet enignes...they quit making. bye>>
Old 08-05-2011, 03:26 AM
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Default RE: Nice Twin cyl engine...West Germany. 50cc

Maybe you should call Randy at Mecoa and ask the real Kavan expert. He will know more about this engine than any of the names you mentioned.

BTW, to my knowledge there have been no negatives regarding the VT240. If so, please post a link. Dick Hanson used to run one back when they were popular.
Old 08-05-2011, 06:13 AM
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captinjohn
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Default RE: Nice Twin cyl engine...West Germany. 50cc

Plane Crazy, I was wondering, are you into engines really, or is a thing where you pick them up cheap to make a few bucks? Of all the Enya engines you have had....what did you do with them? I get a engine because I plan to keep it if it runs good. I do not try to make any money off selling engines. But I sure have redone quite a few...not charging anything to my friends. I do have friends give me stuff out of the blue....do do with engines of any type. They know I will do something with it rather than try to turn a buck on it.
I do like the VT240 Enya and a guy sent me lots of printed out articles on that engine. If I find one to buy ...I would. But again not to make money...I simply love the sound of certain engines. Capt,n

Old 08-05-2011, 02:37 PM
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Default RE: Nice Twin cyl engine...West Germany. 50cc

I've lost money or broke even on every engine I resold but that's what happens when you buy them NIB, run them in properly and see how they really perform and then sell them with a guaranty of performance. I still own about 50% of my Enya collection but have decided if I'm never going to get to fly them they must go. Same with all my Ross twins and four cylinders. Well made and light for what they were but won't fly what I fly today.
Old 08-05-2011, 06:04 PM
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Default RE: Nice Twin cyl engine...West Germany. 50cc

PlaneKrazee, Did some of the Ross Twins have a black finish on the case? Seems like one of my friends had one years ago and it was his favorite engine. It was the only twin he had, he was poor really, but he could build you a Sig Kadet in a day. He had templates and built several parts all at once. I know another guy that has a OPS big single with a belt drive OHV cam. I see him at swap meets every year, trying to sell it. Nice looking engine ...New in Box. I like twin cyl engines...but only have one. I may buy a gas twin if I can sell off some of the none RC stuff I do not use much. Like a Big Lake fishing boat. I did manage to sell a small motorcycle the other day. It got over 80 MPG. I may wish I kept it. Capt,n

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