bgoyos

Thanks TURK1. Do you suggest me to take off the pump and use a common moffler connecting the presure exaust directly to the tank, as usually done with Nitro engines?, in order to see if the pump is pushing bubbles or isn't working properly?

dkm

The Australian agent is now listing the NGH GT9 as discontinued. Anyone know why ?
http://www.modelling.christiantrader...2_NGH_GT9.html

earlwb

Yeah, NGH is allowing Hobby King to sell the engines for clearance prices, which undercuts all the other dealers and importers.

bgoyos

Hi. Everyone that have flown your aircraft with this NGH 9cc, do really confirm that the Maximum Output is 0.8HP, as shown in the description?
I really think that the power is better than 1.5HP... Just comparewith O.S. 55AX... OK, the NGH dosn't reach 13,000 rmp's, but can handle an 12X8 prop with no problem.
What do you think?

captain2

My Feedback: (2)

have a similar problem here in the US. Agape R&H is the NGH distributor. I bought a GT17 from them and am now pleased with it in large part because of the service and advice I got from Agape. Would further guess that Agape can not make any money selling off GT9s at HK prices and nor should they even attempt to. Not everything can be reduced to a commodity at a low price, especially something like these engines.

Without Agape [or somebody like them] I will not buy another NGH product - and I really don't care how good they may or may not be!

Don't understand Michael Chang's logic - first enlisting Hobbyking and second allowing them to sell his products too cheaply.

Turk1

Hi amigo,if you can yes I really suggest you to try this.I believe muffler pressure system will work way better than regulator system.My pump also was sending bubbles at first but in time it stopped making bubbles.
Hi Captain2,as you can see, Hobbyking is selling only GT9 on NGH brand but no others.I guess NGH is giving up to pay attention on GT9,rather focusing on new developments(70CC 4st. and some twins).Then only HK. is fit to sell such a problematic engine.

captain2

My Feedback: (2)

NGH, as you know, makes engines with unique features and in unique sizes. The GT9 is definitely one of these products that the assigned distributors would very much like to sell if they were allowed to make some money on it. If the distributors won't carry the engine because of NGH's new marketing philosophies, it makes little sense to buy the thing from a non-servicing mass marketer. I do some business with Hobbyking and do find them an economical source for many things - but, one thing they can't and won't do is service and/or diagnose engine problems.

Yes, NGH does make a pretty full line of engines these days. I have a particular interest in the new 38cc 4 stroke, but my distributor tells me that he hasn't been allowed even a sample of it and has no idea when [or if] he'll have any to sell. Frustrating....[]

Turk1

Hi Captain2,my guess is there will be only new type 38 CC 4 stroke which pro type.Pro type is produced by a different factory and I see they cant
still give any to market.So your dealer reasonably have to wait for new product instead of obsolete one.I hope it will be available until next month.
I tried some suggestions to Mr.Chow on GT9 problems but he said he cant have spare time for GT9 since new products keeps him so busy.

jescardin

My Feedback: (1)

What an answer, Turk1, for a gentleman who is making his best to improve a quite unsatisfiying product!.

You may well ask him in return if those new products will be of same quality, so we modelers may keep well aside of them.


Best Regards.

Mikola

same problem with Tower Monopolies and their discount cupons, little dealers cannot afford to compete on price, because OS/Futaba from japan allows this.


you get what you pay for.... buy V1 wait and buy V2...this is why most NGH threads are half dead.
I don't know why do you always recomend his crap products everywhere he doesn't even fix all issues of earlier engines before starting new projects he just want fast money as many other chinese sellers.


Mike G.

captain2

My Feedback: (2)

.


you get what you pay for.... buy V1 wait and buy V2...this is why most NGH threads are half dead.
I don't know why do you always recomend his crap products everywhere he doesn't even fix all issues of earlier engines before starting new projects he just want fast money as many other chinese sellers.


Mike G.

[/quote]

which is why the need for local service and distribution - my GT17 did have some issues but the US distributor [in my case] took care of everything. That is where the distributor earns his profit. Involving a mass marketer like HK is not likely to improve NGH's rep when things are sold 'buyer beware'.

Lifer

My Feedback: (1)

I suspect he is a shill. Certain aspects of the syntax he uses in his responses leads me to believe he is from the U.S. Everything he says is an affirmation of support for Chow, even when Chow's customers are being ignored, again. I had a JBA 15 and learned my lesson. Chow changed companies and asks for continued support. Now he's ignoring us again, and his shill says it's because he's preparing a new product for us and that's why we should continue to tolerate this situation.

I talked to a local modeler about this issue. He offered a humorous response: The lack of quality of a product is a direct relation to the quantity of anodized parts. The more coloring, the less quality you get. Be warned, you are buying eye-candy!

captain2

My Feedback: (2)

I had 3 problems with my GT17:

1. an out of spec crankshaft that squeezed the front bearing everytime I tightened a prop. Start the engine and it would fry the bearing. Jim Willis at Agape finally diagnosed the problem and fixed it. This I consider a quality issue.
2. the RC-EXL CDI failed - not exactly a NGH problem and
3. a tendency for the engine to 'flame out' mid flight. Jim supplied me with a 4mm insulating plastic spacer and a velocity stack for the carb at no charge. This corrected this.

what I have now is a powerful little gasser [15x8 MAS 8200 rpm] that is the easiest starting engine I have. It obviously doesn't rival my DLE20s powerwise but does leave those JBA 15s in the dust. Mine is currently on a 60 size GP Revolver, and is wonderful.

I am no shill[&o], and while I'm not particularly up on any problems the 9 has had; I frankly don't see the quality issues you mention. IMO new engine designs by anybody are works in progress and losing local servicing distributors is the last thing NGH needs.

Turk1

This answer was mostly because he doesnt think GT9 has problem.He thinks we are not able to adjust/install properly.
But in practice he should have seen the reactions on that engine and let H.K. sell it.
Other engines are great.Some occasionally problems are normal for all kind of products which man made.
NGH engines have some good difference from other gas engines.Those are liner system and rotary valve instead of reed s.Running time eventually will
show those advantages in behalf of user.

bgoyos

Thanks amigo Turk1. I Have made 5 more flights. This time I used succesfully a MA 12X6 serie K. The NHG 9cc hesitaes at taking off and every 1 minute in air. Fortunately didn't stop. I'll try adding the normal muffler, and let you know if it stops bubbling.
Thanks.

earlwb

I am starting to think that maybe Micheal is correct in some cases, maybe many cases about people not setting up the carburetor correctly. Now this isn't to say that the carb is good, it is not. But the engine and carb do work. NGH instructions say to set the carb low speed needle to about 4 turns out and the high speed to 1.5 turns out. Later in this thread someplace (if I remember post #64) Micheal stated the low speed should be 6 turns out. Anyway 6 turns works for me.

But NGH could still have quality control issues and have sent out defective parts, so it is hard to say if everyone will be as successful. Some people did get carbs with defects in them as well as defective pump/regulators too. Now I did try mounting a Walbro carb on a engine and that worked pretty good actually, but it is a bit ugly with a carb almost as big as the engine itself. Lately someone elsegot a Evolution 10cc gas engine carburetor and made a adapter shim for the NGh engine to fit the Evo carb on it and the Evo carb worked well on the NGh engine too. So that is another way to do it too.

Also the carb's idle speed setting is with the carb throttle open about 1/2 open. Now this is odd, but it does work if you do that with the carb. The engine also tends to spit fuel a lot back out when running, but that is quite normal actually. I see many high performance glow engines do the same thing as well as some gasoline engines too. But the fuel spitting tends to mislead people into thinking that the engine is too rich at idle and they try to lean it out more. Plus people try to close the throttle barrel more to be like regular carbs and when you do that it just doesn't work. Now there were a few people that did some modifications to the carb and they fixed the carb to work like normal, but you don't have to do all of that to get the carb and engine to work. Now then the carburetor could have been made better, NGH didn't finish it up or put more time into it, they simply got it to work and shifted their focus to other things. They could have made it better. That 1/2 open for idling tends to really confuse a lot of people. As you know most people never really read the instructions for anything they get.

I think most problems will be in the pump/regulator unit. One may have to work on that device. The pump cover may have its center screw mount part made slightly too deep which doesn't let it clamp down properly on the diaphragm, and gasket and thus it leaks. The pump/regulator body may need to be checked to ensure the mating surfaces are actually flat and level as they could be uneven and that could cause leaks too. You can use a glass plate and some valve lapping compound to level it out better, if it needs it. The little aluminum pivot bar for the fuel inlet valve may get bent down and need straightening out or replacing with a steel pivot bar from a Walbro rebuild kit. Next the regulator diaphragm and pump diaphragm may need replacing as they may have problems. The diaphragms seem to stretch over time or get too soft. That may be because of the different gasolines used in different countries or just defective materials. But they are easily replaced using a Walbro carb rebuild kit. The pump/regulator is also sensitive to vibration and heat as well. So it needs to be isolated some from the vibration and located where it can't pickup heat from the engine. The unti does not have a little filter screen inside, so you need ot use a fuel filter outside of the pump/regulator to keep little bits of debris out of the unit where it can cause the fuel inlet valve to stick open which floods out the engine then.

Anyway, when you get it it all setup the little engines run pretty good then. Now it isn't as powerful as the more current Evolution 10cc gas engine, but the little NGH 9cc gasoline engine does work in any case and can power 40 to 50 size RC planes just fine.

Here is a picture showing about what the throttle looks like with the engine set to idle. The short video clip shows that the engine does have a throttle settings other than idle and full speed and can run at different speeds in between too.



Here is a pic of two of my planes with NGH 9cc gas engines on them out at the flying field this last weekend.


In this video I show the engine can run at dfifferent speeds other than full throttle or idle.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Zfeq-B6e3E[/youtube]

jerdavis

My Feedback: (3)

I improved the performance and handling of my NGH 9 GT greatly by removing the spark plug and ignition system and putting it on a Supertigre .90, then placing the Ngh in the trash.

Lifer

My Feedback: (1)

My opinion of the JBA 15cc, which is an older cousin.

earlwb

I have three of the little 9cc engines in use and they went through more than four gallons of fuel since I first started running them. That is a fair amount of flying considering how much fuel they consume per flight. The engines are still hanging in there OK. I used the Amsoil Saber pro oil at first, but it was carboning up the head and piston more than I liked, so I switched to Stihl Ultra synthetic oil instead. I feel that one needs to use a really good oil, preferably synthetic in order to ensure longer life out of the engines. The connecting rod is the main weak point as it doesn't do well with cheaper oils.

Turk1

Tovarish Evgeny as I can see you are also using some kind of return line on fuel line as I recommend.
If you mean your engine s lifespan,I know those engines as JBA 56 glow blocks.If you dont damage the conrod you can be sure piston and liner will serve you much more than you expected.I recommend you to check spark timing to stay safe side to keep conrod in good shape.

disljenko

Earlwb since you mention oil i have one question. I also have ngh 9cc but i realize that from my muffler exit alot unbrned oil (black stuff). I use 5% oil mixture but i wonder if this black oil from my mulffler indicate that mixture have more oli that engine acctualy need. Can i reduce oil mixture to 4% without damaging engine. Higher oil ration reduce engine power, i sow in spec for this engine oil ratio is 4-5%. Almost forgot i use Stihl oil but dont now what type( it came in small bottles - 100ml) !!!!

Thanks in advance !!!!

earlwb

The weak point is the bushed connecting rod in the engine. The connecting rod on any engine has trouble getting enough oil to keep it properly lubricated. But this is mainly at the big end of course as the crankpin rotates inside of it there. So you have to run 20:1 to 25:1 oil ratio in the fuel or you run the risk of the rod failing right there at the big end first.  Unfortunately, NGH didn't use needle bearings in the rod as they couldn't get them at the time. So we need to run more oil in the fuel to help keep the rod lubricated. So do not go light on the oil, maybe put a little extra in just in case.

I do not mind the extra oil residue left over on the plane, it isn't a problem for me to clean off. But I know some people don't like it though. It might be nice to run a 32:1 oil ratio, and the plane would stay more clean like that, but the little engine's connecting rod will very likely fail at this low of a oil ratio.  Now then the rod might hold up OK, I don't know I never tried it, but if the engine went lean in the air for some reason, it would likely cause the rod to fail then with the more lean air fuel mixture resulting in less oil getting to the rod.

The other thing to keep in mind that as the engine gets smaller and smaller, the more oil it needs to stay lubricated. A big large displacement gas engine may do quite fine with a 50:1 oil ratio, but as the engines get smaller then we need to use 32:1 and then 25:1 and 20:1 and so on.

kamakazi

My Feedback: (1)

Whats happened to US manufacturers, only one engine manufacturer I know of is Fox in Ft Smith Ar. Do we have to wait for foreign manufacturers to bring out new stuff and new ideas?

earlwb

The Chinese for various reasons started selling cheap engines (flooded the market is more like it) in the USA, Europe and the rest of the world and that put a lot of pressure on the other model engine companies. A USA company cannot compete pricewise with the Chinese for numerous reasons. Fox Manufacturing, JETT Engineering and MECOA are about it for USA glow engine companies. Cox Engines is now in Canada but they still make engines too. Fox and MECOA both have other business deals and contracts to make machined parts for other purposes and model engines is a sideline for the most part now. But as to other engine companies, even Europe was hit pretty hard too, HB, HP, and Webra gave up. MVVS is probably real close as they quit making glow engines too. SuperTigre moved their entire model engine factory to China years ago. Even OS engines in Japan has started making some of their lower cost engines in China too.

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

Agape hobbies has the 9cc in stock. $159.00. Thats only $30 more than HK and you get stateside service if you should need it.