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DLE-20 fried a piston...

Old 01-07-2012, 06:45 PM
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cphdrider
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Default DLE-20 fried a piston...

DLE-20 seized up.Had good air flow in Cap 232, carb tuned properly, gas/oil mixture 32-1.Ran good several flights, then seized up mid air with no warning. Couldn't make it back to the runway damaged the airplaneplus fried the cylinder/piston/ring. Anyone had this problem? I find it interesting thatthe sources forthese parts are out of stock?The aluminum cylinder does not have a sleeveso DLE platesthe cylinder walla metalic substanceapprox .001 inch thick (so Iwas told). I have been running weed eaters, blowers, and etc for yearswith 2-sroke engines and never had one seize. Comments...
Old 01-07-2012, 06:56 PM
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Default RE: DLE-20 fried a piston...

Not much of a story without photos!

Don't remember anyone until you, having fried a DLE20 in all the many threads here.
Crank pin break, yes (a few)......seized up, no.
Old 01-07-2012, 07:15 PM
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Default RE: DLE-20 fried a piston...

Maybe you re-filled your gas jug, thought you added 2-stroke oil......but forgot to?<rut-row>

Even AMSOIL Saber @ 100:1 won't seize up as you claim 32:1 did, which in & of itself sounds suspicious to me.
Old 01-07-2012, 07:35 PM
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Default RE: DLE-20 fried a piston...

It has been straight gassed!

You may have to go to Valley View Hobbies or another source instead of Tower to get your parts?

No use going on a witch hunt.


Most of the time you can save the cylinder and will just need a new piston and ring.

On the cylinder, you use muriatic acid from the hardware store. You rub the aluminum build up with a Q-tip soaked with muriatic acid. Do not get the acid on anything but just the hard cylinder wall.

The acid will eat the aluminum but not the hard spray coating applied to the cylinder.

eventually finish up with a little 400 grit wet or dry sand paper.

Don't get the acid on any aluminum that you do not want to be eaten away.

It will boil and bubble on the aluminum

Old 01-07-2012, 08:06 PM
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Default RE: DLE-20 fried a piston...

Here is a picture with a small square mirror laying inside a 42cc Mahle cylinder from a Husqvarna chain saw showing the aluminum that has been transfered to the cylinder above and below the exhaust port from the piston in a straight gas mishap.



If this aluminum can be removed with muriatic acid without getting any acid on any other part of the cylinder, then the cylinder can be saved.

After removing the transferred aluminum you need to make sure that there are no streaks where the hard Nikasil coating was actually removed show bare aluminum.

It would be better to use a Bowman ring on your new piston.
Old 01-08-2012, 06:31 AM
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Default RE: DLE-20 fried a piston...


ORIGINAL: cphdrider

DLE-20 seized up.Had good air flow in Cap 232, carb tuned properly, gas/oil mixture 32-1.Ran good several flights, then seized up mid air with no warning. Couldn't make it back to the runway damaged the airplaneplus fried the cylinder/piston/ring. Anyone had this problem? I find it interesting thatthe sources forthese parts are out of stock?The aluminum cylinder does not have a sleeveso DLE platesthe cylinder walla metalic substanceapprox .001 inch thick (so Iwas told). I have been running weed eaters, blowers, and etc for yearswith 2-sroke engines and never had one seize. Comments...
The ratio of oil and gas mix should be 30-1 like the instructions call for. What oil did you use? Make sure it is a good brand like Penzoil Air cooled 2 cycle oil. Regards, Capt,n
Old 01-08-2012, 07:29 AM
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Default RE: DLE-20 fried a piston...

It's not hard at all to verify that oil has been mixed with the gas. All you have to do is look at the color of the can's contents? Any oil I've ever used will make the mix turn much darker than raw gasoline might be.
Old 01-08-2012, 07:38 AM
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cphdrider
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Default RE: DLE-20 fried a piston...

Thanks for all the responses... With regard to the missing oil, NOI did not forget the oil and I checked that as soon as I got home. I use Pennzoil 2-cycle air-cooled engine oil 32-1 ratio. I have five DLE engines and I use the same gas/oil mixture for all. I should point out that I am a mechanical engineer and I have rebuilt car engines and numerous small2 and 4 stroke enginesover the years.It is very possible that the metalic plating was improperly applied thus the premature failure.With regard to buying the parts from other than Tower,Icontactedseveral hobby dealersthat carry the DLE 20 andnoone had the parts.I would name the dealers but that would not be appropriate as they all stated the parts Ineeded was on order from China. Normally, eBay has these parts also but not this time which leads me to believe there has been a high demand?

No need for additional comments other thanif anyonehas experienced the same problem with the DLE 20?
Old 01-08-2012, 08:04 AM
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Default RE: DLE-20 fried a piston...

Take it apart and examine the piston and ring. That should tell you why it seized. Manufacturer error or operator error? Who knows without examining anything.
Old 01-08-2012, 08:04 AM
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Default RE: DLE-20 fried a piston...

ORIGINAL: cphdrider

No need for additional comments other than if anyone has experienced the same problem with the DLE 20?
Like I said, yours is the first here.

You could do a 'Search' to see if there's any other such reported incidences, also try googling it.

Photo's would still be good to post!
Old 01-08-2012, 09:25 AM
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Default RE: DLE-20 fried a piston...

There are only three places to buy DLE parts in the USA.

These are Tower Hobbies'

Valley View RC

Troy Built Models

Any other place is just a dealer through Tower Hobbies

If Tower is out of stock, you need to Try Valley View RC or Troy Built models.
Old 01-08-2012, 11:01 AM
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Default RE: DLE-20 fried a piston...


ORIGINAL: ahicks

It's not hard at all to verify that oil has been mixed with the gas. All you have to do is look at the color of the can's contents? Any oil I've ever used will make the mix turn much darker than raw gasoline might be.
True...*IF* you actually LOOK into the gas!

Sometimes someone (owner, relative, neighbor) uses the gas, refills,
forgets to add the 2-stroke oil -or- don't tell the owner, and presto...meltdown
{I'd be just a wee bit ticked off if that happened to me}

Since no one else has reported the same thing (I googled), it keeps
coming back to no oil. I'd bet TBM/TH/VVRC doing warranty on it would agree.

But beyond that, it IS odd no one has parts in the USA for it.
Must have been a HUGE Christmas rush on DLE20's!
Old 01-08-2012, 01:27 PM
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cphdrider
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Default RE: DLE-20 fried a piston...

Once again... I did not run the engine without oil. When I got home from the flying field, I poured the gas out of the container into a clear glass jug. I then re-mixed another gallon and compared the color andit was exactly the same. I flew another plane with a DLE 20 thenext dayusing the same gas/oil mixture that I was running when the engine seized and had no problems.I think it isa direct result of cylinder plating and I find it ironic that only a month ago parts were available.
Old 01-08-2012, 01:31 PM
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Default RE: DLE-20 fried a piston...

Pull it apart and lets see what the cylinder plating looks like

Pictures or it didn't happen?
Old 01-08-2012, 01:37 PM
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Default RE: DLE-20 fried a piston...

I haven't experienced the seizure problem on my little DLE but do have something to add. This issue is sometimes caused by excess temperature. Without some way of knowing what the engine temp was running at the time of failure ie - telemetry, data recorder, or venom on board temp recorder etc excess temp could very well explain the seizure.

When I put together my first DLE30 powered plane I setup everything identical to my 50cc bird. Cooling exit percentages etc were the same. I had set the telemetry warning on my DX8 for 320 degs. F and shortly after takeoff the warning came on. I throttled back and landed to see what triggered the alarm and was surprised to see it was engine temp. I rearranged my baffles and opened up the exit some more adding a small dam just forward of the opening to increase the air depression at the exit. The temps came down to a reasonable level but it still took quite a while before it broke in enough to run consistently in the middle 200 deg range. In a very long hover it will still climb to 290 to 300 degs and much higher than that, IMHO, is too high. Just more food for thought as these little guys don't just melt pistons down for no reason. It takes a sharp eye and a willingness to see the problem to resolve these kinds of issues. The same cooling efforts that work on a 50cc may not be enough for these little fellows and the only way to know is some form of telemetry or onboard temp recorder such as the sub 20 dollar Venom.

Link to the Venom at Tower http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHUH3

Jim L, the scenario you described about the anonymous refilling of the fuel jug has gotten me in trouble before. My wife knows which jugs contain "Two Stroke" fuel and therefore if the yard equipment can runs out she will sometimes swipe some of mine. Trying to be helpful she refilled the can once and forgot to tell me. Since that time I have bought special fuel dye (Deep Blue) and use it religiously so I can tell if the "Model Gas Fuel" can has been refilled. The red oil turns the mixture purple and if it has been refilled it will look mostly straw colored letting me know I need to remix. I have a couple of expensive weed whackers here (Echo) that met the same fate. Now we don't ruin two strokers that way any more. I also keep a small quart can of the ethanol free premixed stuff like they sell in Home Improvement stores so if she runs out she can resort to that.
Old 01-08-2012, 01:42 PM
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Default RE: DLE-20 fried a piston...

Dle Australia has them http://www.dlenginesaustralia.com/dl...&productId=473
Old 01-08-2012, 01:58 PM
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Default RE: DLE-20 fried a piston...

It seems like there is a big dealer for DLE engines in Canada. I do not recall the name! Capt,n
Old 01-08-2012, 02:20 PM
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Default RE: DLE-20 fried a piston...


ORIGINAL: w8ye

Pull it apart and lets see what the cylinder plating looks like

Pictures or it didn't happen?
+5
Old 01-08-2012, 02:44 PM
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Default RE: DLE-20 fried a piston...

How about some pictures OR we have to get down on one knee OR you don't have a camera.

Karol
Old 01-08-2012, 02:53 PM
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Default RE: DLE-20 fried a piston...



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Old 01-08-2012, 03:25 PM
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Default RE: DLE-20 fried a piston...


ORIGINAL: Jezmo

.......................................

Jim L, the scenario you described about the anonymous refilling of the fuel jug has gotten me in trouble before. My wife knows which jugs contain ''Two Stroke'' fuel and therefore if the yard equipment can runs out she will sometimes swipe some of mine. Trying to be helpful she refilled the can once and forgot to tell me........................
Actually I'm safe in that area. Neither my wife or daughters want any part of "yard work" so messing up the 2-cycle gas/oil jugs is solely my responsibility.

H-o-w-e-v-e-r, the wife did goof up once big time![]
She bought us a new 22" push mower, and I helped unload it after she got home, setting the quart of eng oil to the side.
She unfolds the handle, and locks it into place, then fills up the gas, sets the throttle and grabs the pull cord ready to start it up.
I said hold on, don't ya think it'd be a good idea to fill up the crankcase with that oil they included? Wife checks he mini dipstick
and seeing it 'wet' claims it already has oil in it. I said you bought it, but remember this day, it'll come back to bite ya later!
(She was in one of those I'll do it my way moods).

Oldest daughter was mowing back then and got 4 uses out of it before the mower seized up SOLID![:@]
I just grabbed that quart of oil and walked by the wife whistling and swinging the oil.

Took it to work, punched the crank out, reamed & bushed the top bearing area, and viola.....back up & running.
Wife now says ZERO about mechanical issues such as engines & oil.
Old 01-08-2012, 03:40 PM
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Default RE: DLE-20 fried a piston...


ORIGINAL: cphdrider

DLE-20 seized up. Had good air flow in Cap 232, carb tuned properly, gas/oil mixture 32-1. Ran good several flights, then seized up mid air with no warning. Couldn't make it back to the runway damaged the airplane plus fried the cylinder/piston/ring. Anyone had this problem? I find it interesting that the sources for these parts are out of stock? The aluminum cylinder does not have a sleeve so DLE plates the cylinder wall a metalic substance approx .001 inch thick (so I was told). I have been running weed eaters, blowers, and etc for years with 2-sroke engines and never had one seize. Comments...
Ok. that coating in the cylinder is flame plated chrome. It is what is used in the majority (by numbers of units sold) of weedeateers etc as well as in the majority (by the same measurement) of RC engines. It is not the best coating to use but it works for most. Just like any other product in the world, there will be instances where a poor coating will get past any "QC" process. Yours may very well be the firt one reported here but without proof by way of photos some will call B/S on it.

You mention good airflow in the Cap

Is the engine inverted in the cowl?
Is the air coming into the cowl through the standard 2 inlets on each side of the prop?

Please show pics of the install, including the baffling directing the air to the cylinder.

2 things cause piston seizure.
Insufficient lubrication (This can include high friction caused by coating breakdown)
Excess temperature.

Without pics of the damaged items, nobody here can assist you. Wihout pics of the install, there is also little help available here for you.
Old 01-08-2012, 04:36 PM
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Default RE: DLE-20 fried a piston...

Just to stir the sensitivity pot.

There is only one reason to stick a piston and that ownership lies with the person running the engine. Period. Everyone else dancing around your sensivitity with political correctness is doing you a disservice by providing a means for you to avoid responsibility.

Yea, cooking off an engine and then making numerous attempts to avoid responsibility really was enough to get me to post again. Don't get your hopes up and think there will be much of that happening.
Old 01-08-2012, 04:49 PM
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Default RE: DLE-20 fried a piston...

Aw come on Tom. Just hasn't been the same around here without ya!

Miss ya big guy,
AV8TOR
Old 01-08-2012, 05:08 PM
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Default RE: DLE-20 fried a piston...


ORIGINAL: av8tor1977

Aw come on Tom. Just hasn't been the same around here without ya!

Miss ya big guy,
AV8TOR
Well TOM did say "much"....thats more than zero...like none...nothing....with a wisper of mayby or its possible. He did not say _ e l l no....never!!!!!!!!!! What more can you ask for???? A left handed monkey wrench!

He better spell better though Capt,n over & out!

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