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Quadra 150

Old 01-25-2012, 09:14 AM
  #1  
ksawyer
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Default Quadra 150

I am new to gassers and this web site has been very educational.

I am hoping someone here can help me out with my latest project.
I just bought a great looking BUSA Super Stearman with a Quadra 150 twin.
It looks like a Bennet but I am not sure. I believe it is has never been run.

Looks like CDI with power from a 7.4 volt LiFe battery.
The ignition is up next to the firewall and I have to take the engine and rear cowl off to determine what type is there.

I believe the previous owner(who is deceased) did a good job with the setup but I am doing my homework before flying.

My questions are:

Is 7.4volt too high for the cdi? I have seen that most recommend 4.8volts.
What is the recoomended prop sizes (came with a 30x10)
Does anyone out there have a owne/ operator manual?


Thanks

Kevin
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Old 01-25-2012, 09:43 AM
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speedracerntrixie
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Default RE: Quadra 150

Most ignitions will fry very quickly at that voltage. personally I would have it converted to a more current ignition setup anyways. What I see is a very old system in there that has no RF protection. Locate RCU user Antique and inquire about a conversion to a better ignition. The 30X10 prop is a good place to start. I would also suggest using tie wraps to secure fuel lines. Tygo has the habit of swelling and a lost fuel line on a draggy bipe dosen't sound like much fun.
Old 01-25-2012, 10:06 AM
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Truckracer
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Default RE: Quadra 150

I'm guessing hidden in there, you'll find a CH ignition which is still a fine product. Some say, none better has been produced. If so, you may want to update the plug caps, etc. I guess you'll find out for sure when you uncover the ignition box.
Old 01-25-2012, 10:28 AM
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Default RE: Quadra 150

Same type of plug cap on my G38 and G23. No problems when using resistor plugs.........
Old 01-25-2012, 10:29 AM
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ksawyer
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Default RE: Quadra 150

Thank guys.

I guess the only way to know for sure what I haveis to pull the rear cowling....I will post what I find in a day or two (or three).

Good catch on the tie wire on the fuel line.
Old 01-25-2012, 11:35 AM
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Default RE: Quadra 150


ORIGINAL: Truckracer

I'm guessing hidden in there, you'll find a CH ignition which is still a fine product. Some say, none better has been produced. If so, you may want to update the plug caps, etc. I guess you'll find out for sure when you uncover the ignition box.

CH was a fine product no doubt however this one looks to be very old and will not have the Syncro Spark unless it was updated at some point. That means fixed ignition timing. With a newer ignition will come easier starting and more power with an advancing timing curve. I would not want to hand flip 150cc that has around 12 degrees ignition advance.
Old 01-25-2012, 11:39 AM
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Default RE: Quadra 150


ORIGINAL: mrbigg

Same type of plug cap on my G38 and G23. No problems when using resistor plugs.........

Resistor plugs have a habit of failing plus a CDI ignition puts out more then a magnito. Safest thing to do is upgrade to a unit with sheilded wires and grounded plug caps. Looks like a really nice airplane, it would be a shame to loose it because a 150.00 upgrade was not done, let alone making the engine more user friendly.
Old 01-25-2012, 11:39 AM
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Default RE: Quadra 150


ORIGINAL: speedracerntrixie


ORIGINAL: Truckracer

I'm guessing hidden in there, you'll find a CH ignition which is still a fine product. Some say, none better has been produced. If so, you may want to update the plug caps, etc. I guess you'll find out for sure when you uncover the ignition box.

CH was a fine product no doubt however this one looks to be very old and will not have the Syncro Spark unless it was updated at some point. That means fixed ignition timing. With a newer ignition will come easier starting and more power with an advancing timing curve. I would not want to hand flip 150cc that has around 12 degrees ignition advance.
We'll all know when he opens it up. I seriously doubt anyone would have installed a fixed timing ignition on a 150 though. They may have though as the compression release valves are still in place on those Quadra cylinders. Hmmmmmmmmmmm
Old 01-25-2012, 11:52 AM
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tkg
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Default RE: Quadra 150

Not a CH unit. Get a pic of the actual ignition module.
Old 01-25-2012, 11:59 AM
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Antique
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Default RE: Quadra 150

If the black ring rotates with the throttle it's not fixed timing.
NOBODY in their right mind would time a 150 at 12, even to help starting...
Resistor plugs don't have a habit of failing..
RC EXL ignitions don't cost $150, check with rcextremepower.com
C&H used those coils some years ago, they look like Zenoah coils but are not as good...
Any good ignition will operate just fine on 4.8 volts....
If there's a small square circuit in series with the sensor wire it's a syncro spark part to convert a fixed igniton...
Old 01-25-2012, 12:28 PM
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Default RE: Quadra 150

without seeing the module, hard to tell, but it does look a lot like the setup I had with a GT80 zenoah, using the original spark coils, along with a newer CH module. It certainly would be an inexpensive conversion to just go with RCexl, if what's under the hood is questionable.
Old 01-25-2012, 02:05 PM
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Default RE: Quadra 150


ORIGINAL: Antique

If the black ring rotates with the throttle it's not fixed timing.
NOBODY in their right mind would time a 150 at 12, even to help starting...
Resistor plugs don't have a habit of failing..
RC EXL ignitions don't cost $150, check with rcextremepower.com
C&H used those coils some years ago, they look like Zenoah coils but are not as good...
Any good ignition will operate just fine on 4.8 volts....
If there's a small square circuit in series with the sensor wire it's a syncro spark part to convert a fixed igniton...

This brings up a few questions for me.

Back in the day when there was no timing advance and in the case of magneto engines, what is the timing set to?
How much would it cost to send in this engine to have it converted to RCEXL?
Back in the day, we would get resistor plugs for our cars so the ignition would not interfere with the car radio. After a few months you could hear ignition noise along with music. A fresh set of plugs would again fix this. Wouldn't the same apply here?
Old 01-25-2012, 02:24 PM
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ksawyer
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Default RE: Quadra 150

Wow!.
Thanks for the great responses.

I am learning alot from this experience.

Since everyone was jumping in offering advice, I decieded to ditch working for a living and go ahead and pull the engine and rear cowling.

I am glad I did. Even though the plane seemed to have been built well, and had modern radio gear, the firewall forward was stuck in 1980.

Upon removing the cowl, I found the cdi controller to be wrapped in black heat shrink and the date March 1997 scratched on the back of it. I am sure this is fixed ignition and it may still work, but I am not flying with it. Attached is a pic of the controller

I called up RC Extreme Power and ordered a new ignition that should be plug and play ready. ($80.85 including 2 new plugs and shipping)

Next, I am pulling the fuel tank and smoke tank to see if they are assembled correctly. It appears the fuel lines are new but I will check for brittleness.

The smokesystem also had a broken nipple on thedischarge side of the pump. The nipple was still in the fuel tubing.....glad I didn'ttry itfirst....would have soaked the inside with smoke oil.

The smoke pump and control board are fromTME. Is this a good systemto use?I assume the controller plugs to a channel that can allow you to set up a flow curve basedon the throttle position (more throttle= more oil).

I am alsogoing to re-build the oleostrut onthe right landing gear that has alotof slack in it. It is letting the wheel flop back and forth...goes from toe-in to toe-out by several degrees.

Anybody out there build a set of gear for a BUSAStearman?Looks like replacing with new Seirra gear would requiresome surgury.

Again...thanksforthe help.

Kevin



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Old 01-25-2012, 03:31 PM
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Default RE: Quadra 150

When you get a chance, Take a picture of the connector on the wire from the sensor, Want to see it it is a direct hook up for the one on the RCexl.

Milton
Old 01-25-2012, 03:34 PM
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speedracerntrixie
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Default RE: Quadra 150

Kevin, the second picture looks like it has a fiber optic hook up to it. Could that be an ignition switch and regulator for the ignition?
Old 01-25-2012, 05:11 PM
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Antique
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Default RE: Quadra 150

The ignition was made in California by Duarte Cabral..It does have electronic advance...It was advertised as tuneable by turning a small resistor on the back of the circuit...It was sold at one time by Jerry Nelson products, maybe still is...
It should have Deans plug connectors on the sensor wire...Don't remember if it retarded like a C&H or advanced like DA and 3w.......Reichmuth ignition was wrapped in heat shring, but he made his own coils...It's still made by D&B engines inside the mount like mine on their 3.7 and 5.1 twins...
The sensor will have a Deans plug on it....
Old 01-25-2012, 05:14 PM
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Antique
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Default RE: Quadra 150

ORIGINAL: speedracerntrixie


ORIGINAL: Antique

If the black ring rotates with the throttle it's not fixed timing.
NOBODY in their right mind would time a 150 at 12, even to help starting...
Resistor plugs don't have a habit of failing..
RC EXL ignitions don't cost $150, check with rcextremepower.com
C&H used those coils some years ago, they look like Zenoah coils but are not as good...
Any good ignition will operate just fine on 4.8 volts....
If there's a small square circuit in series with the sensor wire it's a syncro spark part to convert a fixed igniton...

This brings up a few questions for me.

Back in the day when there was no timing advance and in the case of magneto engines, what is the timing set to?
How much would it cost to send in this engine to have it converted to RC EXL?
Back in the day, we would get resistor plugs for our cars so the ignition would not interfere with the car radio. After a few months you could hear ignition noise along with music. A fresh set of plugs would again fix this. Wouldn't the same apply here?
Mag timing was about 28 BTDC, the engine doesn't care where the spark comes from as long as it's in the right place..
Resistor plug in our gassers last for years...
recextremepower will have a conversion..
You can easily set the timing by rotating the black ring between the hub and crankcase...
If rxtremepower doesn't have large hex spark plug caps you can use NGK BPMR6F spark plugs..
Old 01-25-2012, 06:49 PM
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tkg
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Default RE: Quadra 150

Its a Prospark, its an advancer. IF operated with out a coil its instant toast (like a broken wire)
A RCEXL would be an easy fix, just reset timing.
Old 01-26-2012, 05:52 AM
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ksawyer
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Default RE: Quadra 150

Milton,

Here is the pic of the plug. You were right....looks like a deans plug.

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Old 01-26-2012, 05:59 AM
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Default RE: Quadra 150

Its easy to tell when someone is talking from experience. No replacement for that.

Antique, nice to see someone with actual knowledge answering questions



Ksawyer, let us know how it flies when you get to that point That was always one of the planes on my bucket list. Ive either been in the wrong place at the wrong time or just didnt have the funds when I found one. I dont have near enough patiance to build one for myself lol. Even though I biuld for others. If you ever see one fly, your hooked. Guess thats why you dont see many of the Balsa USA's for sale.

Only way you could make this thing even more impressive, is with a Moki 250

Good luck with it and listen to most of these guys, use a little common sense, and your motor will do just fine.

WBG
Old 01-26-2012, 06:21 AM
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Default RE: Quadra 150


ORIGINAL: ksawyer

Milton,

Here is the pic of the plug. You were right....looks like a deans plug.


The connector will still work with the RCexl Futaba connector, On one side of the deans connector the is a grove in it,

Just plug the deans into the Futaba with the grove on the white wire side. But once you have done it the Futaba connector will not work with Futaba connector again. The prongs on the deans is larger than the Futaba prongs and will not let a Futaba connector work.

Only a problem if you are ever going to use the ignition with Futaba connectors later on.

Milton
Old 01-26-2012, 09:39 AM
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Default RE: Quadra 150

You have deans connectors ?
Old 01-26-2012, 12:38 PM
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Default RE: Quadra 150

A little off topic but I have to ask, how about some pics when you get her all assembled. Bet she looks real nice.
Old 01-26-2012, 12:50 PM
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ksawyer
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Default RE: Quadra 150

I will be sure to post pics and hopefully a video on youtube.

Starting to put it all back together now.  Maybe have going in a week.

Old 02-03-2012, 08:12 PM
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Default RE: Quadra 150

Just an update. Work has been picking up so I have not made alot of progress.

I did talk to the fine folks at Don's Hobby Shop and decieded to toss the Smartfly regulator and Expansion Board with 1 reciever for a 2 reciever setup. Also the previous owner had 2 2600mah A123's on the reciever. They have beenupgraded to 5600mah packs with individual regulators for each reciever.

I am also swapping out the 32oz. fuel tank for a new 50oz.

RC Extreme Ignition system is mounted and hope to balance prop and test run the Quadra 150 tomorrow.

If anyone wants the smartfly system email me for details, I can make them a good deal.

Kevin

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