comanche260c

how much gripping area is inside wing nut?

comanche260c

my bolt is same length but the inside of bolt has only like 5 trrth to grab the bolt ,it should of been alot larger or had a threaded hard wool with atlease 1/2 inch deepth to grab bolt

comanche260c

sorry for typing error. I was typing in poor light and rushing

jeffEE

My Feedback: (5)

ya know...You ask if we think the Mfg should replace your plane due to bad design. And when people tell you "no" you get all up set. If you don't want people to answer your question with an honest answer, don't ask. Or at least tell us that you are not really asking for our opinion, you just want us to confirm yours. My answer is also "NO" for the reasons stated already.

comanche260c

lindsy how much gripping are is there in your wing bolt

comanche260c

thanks for your reply jeffee

comanche260c

oh jeffee hope your steering wheel has enough thread on it if it falls off dont blame the manafacture. because you are supose to take the wheel off and make sure it was designed right EDDIE

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

One of my planes is a GoldWing and uses a single 1/4" x 20 nylon bolt to retain the wing. I test fit the bolt in the wing and found the bolt diameter undersize ..... it would ship and skip threads if any amount of torque was applied. I replaced the bolt with quality hardware and have now flown the plane w/o problems for most of two seasons now. Had I used the original bolts, I doubt the plane would have survived one flight. Had I flown that plane with the original hardware knowing there was a problem, the crash would have been my fault. The point is you have to test everything (or at least as many things as you can) beforehand to know the various parts and hardware are up to the task required of them.

I don't believe you can compare a low cost, marginal quality, Chinese built ARF from any company to a TV, automobile, etc. The production history of these items is completely different with different quality controls and regulations in place, etc. ARFs built to automotive standards would cost much more than they do now.

comanche260c

TRUCK RACER   my bolt is  like yours was  before you changed yours. IT  fits in wopply  . But my argument is i work hard for my money and any company should back  there products.. If Horizon hobby buys from china   so they can fill there pockets with money dont you thing Horizon should have some quality control on what they are selling. I  didnt inspect  all these parts i figured there are engineers that design things  right. MAYBE THEY ATE TO MUCH RICE??????????  what you think

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

I've been in this hobby for a long time and since day one, and long before any Chinese products were available, I have had to select hardware for the application. Many failures were warded off by inspection. The simple fact is that yes, the provided hardware should be up to the task but often it isn't! Just a fact of ARF life and the hobby in general ..... past and present.

As has been said before here, it doesn't hurt to ask Horizon what their take is on this. You may get a new plane out of the deal if you treat them nice. I wish you well.

comanche260c

I thank you truckracer I  guess i am learning hard way and will  call horizon tomorrow. But before you go how much gripping area do you have in your bolt

comanche260c

MORAL OF STORY    CHECK YOUR  WING BOLTS  REPLACE IF NECESSARY   and see how much gripping area in nut. My zoroli p40 has  plenty gripping area  and so does my 1985 Giant Sweet and LOW.  NOT this  taylorcraft. Thats why its in pieces  hope I saved someones Plane tonight. So  look yours over  EDDIE

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

I just flew the plane today and the wing just happened to by right here beside me. I have (6) threads of engagement in the "T" nut before the end of the bolt emerges from the other side. The new, acceptable bolt whose country or origin I have no knowledge of fits fairly tight in the threads. I have a new "T" nut in my hardware drawer and it has (7) threads of engagement. I would have to believe the bolt would have to fail (break) before the threads would strip out of either of these nuts.

On more than one occasion, I have substituted steel or aluminum hardware for nylon as I didn't feel the nylon was up to the task. For something like a wing retainer bolt from inside the fuselage into a wing root, I usually use a rubber bonded washer under the bolt head to assure it will not back out under vibration.

We just have to do whatever is necessary, mostly based on experience to assure out planes survive long term.

comanche260c

you have 6 threads  in nut and a new  heave screw  good idea on your past change. I have  maybe 4 threads in my bolt with a flimsy  wobbly bolt. Thats good you caught yours before you flew it and changed it out. Today I got a newwing bolt for my p40 and got a flat washer  and a lock washer to hold it  down. But maybe your idea of a rubber  washer is better. THat idea did  run thru my mind. I like  rubber   better    

rcbadger

My Feedback: (14)

I hear all of what's being said here with regard to going over an ARF, or any model for that fact, and agree completely. However, I also believe that manufacturers should be held accountable for their designs. Not everyone involved in the hobby has the knowledge to recognize these conditions, or the skill to repair them if they find them. I'm an electrician by trade. I certainly don't expect my customer to make sure I did my job correctly. If they had the skill, knowledge, and time to do that, they wouldn't need me to begin with!

Using only this example, it's unlikely you can prove a design or manufacturing failure, but if the manufacturer has had similar complaints from others, they may be aware of the condition and be willing to provide you with some remuneration. As has been said earlier here, it won't hurt to try. Of all the Taylorcraft out there, if there is a design/manufacturing failure, they should have heard about more of them by now.

Last note: I was flying in pretty cold weather out in Colorado when the top of a nylon bolt popped off my 40-sized plane and the wing departed the aircraft. I surmised it was due to the cold, but I've never used a nylon bolt or nut again. The steel variety is barely anymore weight (you're not competing anyway, are you?) and they don't ever strip or "pop off." Cheap insurance.

jamie

My Feedback: (2)

i have been looking at this. i think 5 threads r more than enough. r u sure you didnt stress the wing on take off have a hard landing. just think back to the other flights. i really do think that 5 threads r enough

comanche260c

no stress at all on this plane.

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

That is a slightly cupped steel washer bonded to a rubber washer .... called a bonded washer. The steel provides a bearing surface and the rubber to keep the bolt from coming loose. You can find bonded washers most any place that sells hardware .. building supply places, hobby hardware sellers, etc.

gofast53

comanche260c.....maybe you should stick with toy boats instead!

2walla

My Feedback: (10)

If 4 threads were fully engaged the bolt should have broken before the thread striped. This isn't an ideal situation as usually you would want at least 1 diamater of the bolt to be engaged but you are right on the ragged edge where 3 threads would allow the bolt to strip before breaking and 4 threads the bolt should break before stripping. I am thinking that the bolt was probably overtightened a couple of times previously and there went the margin for error.. There shouldnt be that much load on the bolt as it just holds the wing in to the fuse unless you were flying inverted or doing a pushover?

show871

LOL I love when people pass blame, next time tighten your wing bolts, or dont over-tighten them and strip them out. About 90% of arf's have nylon wing bolts they must be gulty of poor design also

apalsson

My Feedback: (1)

In the first place, I cannot see why this thread is in this forum ...... it's the Gas Engines forum, not the "Wing Bolts Forum" or "Let's Beat up Horizon Hobbies Forum" .....

Secondly, I have personally had both the H9 Taylorcrafts and both have been quite solid planes which I have used for some reasonably advanced aerobatics without any problems.
Regardless, I would never fly a new plane without checking some basic points like wing attachments etc

jeffo

My Feedback: (68)

As a general rule about thread engagement,twice the length then the diameter,in other words,1/4" bolt has 1/2" engagement.I'm in the tool and die industry,if you have a steel bolt in a steel thread,1/4" bolt with a 1/4 thread depth has equal strength.You double the thread engagement for a safety factor.-jeffo

RiverLarry

JEFFO ++++ 20 on that one so what if thay stick out !!!!

I cant beleve I read this whole thing !!!! ??????? R/L

the pope

This is a part of the hobby that grinds my gears . If your sold an item thats not fit for its purpose you should be able to have it replaced or a refund given . Its like if you want a plane that doesnt need hours of work before you get airbourne your not a real modeller , thats what arf`s are for , people with little spare time or the inclination to spend months building something. If your plane ended up in the pits killing someone how lame would those excuses be made to sound . The manufacturer would have their nuts nailed to the wall. R.C. planes seem to operate under a different set of rules to almost anything else, if you got a dodgy toaster you wouldnt hesitate to take it back for a refund so why should this be any different . Ive recently had the runaround with Worldmodels . One wing was so badly twisted that it was a crash waiting to happen . So I did what most people would do and gave it a twist in the opposite direction and hit it with the heat gun . Well the whole section just collapsed in on itself do to no shear webs , faulty glue joints and the ribs werent even square hori. or vert. How is one suppposed to know whats going on under the covering . So I contacted the aus importer whose idea of customer service is to ignor every email . So whats next maybe contact head office who just made every lame excuse under the sun as well as offer $40 off another plane . Its like if you bought a new car that almost killed you through no fault of your own , I dont think you would lining up to buy another one would you ? Why would I want another one of your P.O.S. all I wanted was another wing , probably $10 worth in china speak . Why the hell should I have to spend 1/2 a day repairing a crap plane as well as 2 rolls of covering and $30 in petrol and a 3 hour drive . So I gave my word that every chance I got I would tell my story and if everybody did the same maybe they would look after their customers a bit more and the quality would improve . Therfore stay clear of W.M. because your on your own if something isnt right. So if youve ever been given the rough end of the pineapple come forth and speak up . Perhaps even a new forum section but I seriously doubt that would happen. Cheers the pope