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AGM30 Gas engine

Old 09-04-2013, 08:01 AM
  #101  
j301
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Originally Posted by AGMUSA View Post
http://www.rccdi.com/news/conversion/5.html ENGINES TDC Adjustment from RCEXL
This is disconcerting, the information that contradicts the only other available info is coming from the distributor. If I were to need to set the timing to 28 deg btc, I would have to drill and tap two more holes to move the sensor. Perhaps Xairflyer, if you could, check your timing since yours it the only one running so far and let us know?
Old 09-04-2013, 08:31 AM
  #102  
flyinwalenda
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Most all gas /ignition engines are around 28 degrees. Are you using a degree wheel or trying to measure and calculate ? Can you post some pics of the hub,pick-up, sensor?
Old 09-04-2013, 08:48 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by flyinwalenda View Post
Most all gas /ignition engines are around 28 degrees. Are you using a degree wheel or trying to measure and calculate ? Can you post some pics of the hub,pick-up, sensor?
I use a degree wheel.
Page 13; http://manuals.hobbico.com/dle/dleg0030-0031-manual.pdf
Old 09-04-2013, 08:59 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by j301 View Post
This is disconcerting, the information that contradicts the only other available info is coming from the distributor. If I were to need to set the timing to 28 deg btc, I would have to drill and tap two more holes to move the sensor. Perhaps Xairflyer, if you could, check your timing since yours it the only one running so far and let us know?
I done a quick test on mine last week just using spark and degree wheel and it was around 31deg, I have just went out to the workshop and checked mine again using the RCexl buzzer and CH ignitions degree wheel mine is set at 34deg.
My pickup is between the two webs on the engine, in fact the top and bottom of the pickup line up perfectly with each web.
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Old 09-04-2013, 09:05 AM
  #105  
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Are there elongated holes in the sensor strap so you can move it a little left/right for adjustment.?
Old 09-04-2013, 09:08 AM
  #106  
Xairflyer
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yes but a degree or so each way
Old 09-04-2013, 09:26 AM
  #107  
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I didn't go hyper crazy with setting this up to the "nat's @$%" as I am supposed to be working right now (more important things first, right?) but just a quick set up to show you the amount within a degree or two. The first pics are TDC (found this time by a quick "feel"), the next couple are where the sensor it tripping
.
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Old 09-04-2013, 09:41 AM
  #108  
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http://www.rcextremepower.net/ignition_timing.html



or


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBXFpxWg7vY
Old 09-04-2013, 10:26 AM
  #109  
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That's the video I used to teach myself a couple of years ago. The question now is, how much electric advance/retard does the stock AGM unit provide, if any? The dle unit will retard the spark at low rpm for a better idle. There are a couple of schools of thought on the dle-30, timing at 30 deg, and 35 deg btc with the manual being "wrong", but how to check an auto advance ignition unit in slow motion (i.e. the advanced setting is to compensate for auto retard)? And if AGM's unit isn't electronic advance, then it will stay at 46deg (in my case) and never run, or run hot if if does (never mind having to "flip it" at 6k rpm to get it to start). Also, say I were to tap and drill new holes to 28 deg btc,, if the ignition does have an advance it will retard too much at idle, past zero, and not run then either. In any case, Xairflier's 34 deg btc seems to fall in line with the dle crowd, while my 46 is by the "book". Does this mean that one side of the copy machine (team 1-the day-shift guys?) was going by the DLE being fed through it while the other side (team 2-night shift) used the Hobbico "manual" in their process?

Last edited by j301; 09-04-2013 at 10:58 AM.
Old 09-04-2013, 11:57 AM
  #110  
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This engine is starting to really disturb me now. 46 BTDC on one example and 30 BTDC on another? How did they get so out of whack? And that is on the only 2 examples mentioned in here.
Old 09-04-2013, 12:30 PM
  #111  
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Hello,
I bought one of these last week via evil bay , ran out of the box without any issues using a 20x8 Beila prop looks very similar to my DLE 30 but at 117 including delivery within 48hrs iam more than happy .Its mounted in an early Hangar nine Super Cub that will be used as a glider tug/winter hack/trainer for my son ,
cheers Euan.
Old 09-04-2013, 12:39 PM
  #112  
AGMUSA
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auto advance CDI system works this way. fix the sensor and make sure the edge of sensor have 28-30 degree BTDC. when turn the shaft slow , CDI respond the speed of turning and give "delay" fire time , when engine rich and fast then 4K rpm .the CDI system find out the speed and fire no delay . so when your turn the engine different speed by hand ,you may see different timing of spark . this "delay " is good for hand flip with no back fire to hurt your finger. depend on the speed you flip the prop no matter how fast or slow . (nomal hand flip speed is less 2K rpm). engine can fire and keep running if mix fuel is good and into the combustion chamber.
Old 09-04-2013, 01:58 PM
  #113  
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J301 looking at your pics your sensor is located in the same place as mine, so your magnet must be in a different place, I will check mine and find some sort of reference measure you can compare to yours.
Old 09-04-2013, 04:30 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by Xairflyer View Post
J301 looking at your pics your sensor is located in the same place as mine, so your magnet must be in a different place, I will check mine and find some sort of reference measure you can compare to yours.
Thanks X, that would be a big help.
Old 09-04-2013, 06:15 PM
  #115  
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The timing curve is calculated as an offset from whatever the base setting is. Think of the old HEI distributors. You would set the base timing by rotating the distributor and using a timing light at idle to set it to the manufacturer's spec. The ignition module would then calculate an offset based on engine speed and airflow to deliver spark at the appropriate time.

The modules on our engines are a little simpler but the principle is the same. Set the base timing at the lowest engine speed possible (i.e. rotating by hand) and the module will then deliver the appropriate timing according to the calibrated advance curve.


Base timing on just about any small gas two stoke should be 28 degrees BTDC. The module will take it from there.
Old 09-04-2013, 06:16 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by AGMUSA View Post
auto advance CDI system works this way. fix the sensor and make sure the edge of sensor have 28-30 degree BTDC. when turn the shaft slow , CDI respond the speed of turning and give "delay" fire time , when engine rich and fast then 4K rpm .the CDI system find out the speed and fire no delay . so when your turn the engine different speed by hand ,you may see different timing of spark . this "delay " is good for hand flip with no back fire to hurt your finger. depend on the speed you flip the prop no matter how fast or slow . (nomal hand flip speed is less 2K rpm). engine can fire and keep running if mix fuel is good and into the combustion chamber.
Thats some good info, kind of hard to follow, but I get the drift. The issue then is why is my motor firing at 46 deg btc? Looking at the pickup, there will not be enough play to get it down to the 28 to 35 range.

Last edited by j301; 09-05-2013 at 02:24 PM.
Old 09-04-2013, 08:37 PM
  #117  
AGMUSA
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AGM warranty for any issure that factory made , so if your engine have Ignition or sensor or others. we do cover it . try do bench run the engin and if sure have problem about timing( like back fire because too much advance timing )or other . we send new one to replace it. it's our job to make sure you are one of our happy user
Old 09-04-2013, 09:05 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by AGMUSA View Post
AGM warranty for any issure that factory made , so if your engine have Ignition or sensor or others. we do cover it . try do bench run the engin and if sure have problem about timing( like back fire because too much advance timing )or other . we send new one to replace it. it's our job to make sure you are one of our happy user
OK, that sounds good. Like I said earlier, it would not do much of anything, backfire or otherwise. I tried to adjust the timing but there is no way to get it to where it needs to be without drilling and taping new holes which I sure would void the warranty. See post #107, it shows the timing issue. Do I get the people I bought it from involved or deal directly with you?
Old 09-04-2013, 10:01 PM
  #119  
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send you PM .
Old 09-04-2013, 10:20 PM
  #120  
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Pls see the photo 4, if this position is what your mean 45 degree BTDC, than you got wrong way to check the point . because the sensor fire when "full pass" the magnet. when you turn prop clockwise. you timing will add more than 15 degree BTDC. why? you add the full magnet width . it's about 15 to 20 degree timing that's the reason why you got 45 degree advance timing . !! you need subtracting about 15 degree (full magnet width make some degree) , that's the right BTDC you got . hope understand what I explain .

Last edited by AGMUSA; 09-04-2013 at 10:28 PM. Reason: more words
Old 09-05-2013, 03:35 AM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by j301 View Post
Thanks X, that would be a big help.
No much of a means of getting accurate magnet position but my magnet is basically at 90deg to TDC, and lines up between two of the prop drive bolt holes.
Old 09-05-2013, 03:46 AM
  #122  
Xairflyer
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J301
Looking at your pics again I agree with AGMUSA you are checking the timing on the wrong side of the sensor, you can get the RCexl buzzer to work both sides and also generate a spark by hand on both sides depending on how you turn the prop, but in normal operation the ignition unit only generates a spark as the magnet leaves the pickup not as it enters.
Old 09-05-2013, 07:15 AM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by Xairflyer View Post
J301
Looking at your pics again I agree with AGMUSA you are checking the timing on the wrong side of the sensor, you can get the RCexl buzzer to work both sides and also generate a spark by hand on both sides depending on how you turn the prop, but in normal operation the ignition unit only generates a spark as the magnet leaves the pickup not as it enters.
I see what you are saying, unfortunately for me my tester didn't come with any information so I was using the video and assuming the tester was lighting up at the same time the spark would fire. In a way its true as I have noticed the tool and the plug will fire both as the magnet comes to and leaves the pickup. I don't know whats changed since the video, but I notice you cant "go slow" or you will get, in this case, three to four "sparks" while passing faster results in one spark as the magnet leaves the sensor. Lesson learned on that part, which is both good and bad news. Now that the timing issue is not an issue, I have to find out what the issue is with this motor not running. Going to have to go back to the carb theory. The good news is that the AMG people seem to be responsive and willing to stand by the product, and I am still optimistic about the motor, and hopeful it works out. I have ordered a new NGK plug though, as the stock one is likely just like the DLE ones that need to be changed, but that's to be expected with just about any motor, other then DA's I guess.
Old 09-05-2013, 12:49 PM
  #124  
Xairflyer
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Take the carb apart and blow it out, set the needles as mine, I done my initial runs with the supplied plug but did fit a NGK since as I had issues with a non branded one before on a CRRC engine.
Old 09-05-2013, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Xairflyer View Post
Take the carb apart and blow it out, set the needles as mine, I done my initial runs with the supplied plug but did fit a NGK since as I had issues with a non branded one before on a CRRC engine.
Thats on the agenda tonight. I may even change it out all together with a spare WT540 I have, its a better carb anyway-has an accelerator pump, I wish they still made them.

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