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Old 08-01-2016, 06:06 PM
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Default So the fix for the FG84R3 is in...

hpergm early on suggested that rather than taking the FG84R3 off the market and fixing it, Saito would make a different version with Ray's fixes and the 84 would disappear... looks like that will turn out to be correct. See his quote below, from the FG60R3 thread... I think he may have nailed it!


Originally Posted by hpergm
I also received the engine a few days ago. Destined to be installed in an 86" Top Flite FW190.

- Saito will probably never acknowledge the FG84's design shortcomings as this would entail warantee work on existing engines out there. I think they will just phase it out gradually.

- Instead, I see them releasing a "New!" FG75R3 in the future with 1.50 size cylinders (just to be different to the 84), same diameter and power-to-weight ratio as the FG60, but now able to swing an 23x10 @ mid 6,000s for a thrust of ~30-32lbs.

Last edited by slither; 08-01-2016 at 08:09 PM.
Old 08-01-2016, 09:46 PM
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I solved the problem with the ignition I adjusted the valves and the spark plug gap to 0.3mm, also checked everything ( i had missplaced an ignition cap to the wrong cylinder and also put a dedicated lipo for the ignition and I am having 7350 RPM max from a menz 18x6. This is with 6% nitro 6% oil and the rest methanol.
Old 08-02-2016, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by marksp
Curious to see if the Ray's designs made there way into the new FG-90R3??? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_9OM8eCGV4
WHERE did you find this YouTube/Ad for the new 90cc triple? I looked high and low. Nothing mentioned by Saito or Horizon. I also wonder why all the hubub about "Ray's mods" when plenty of guys seem to be very happy with the stock Saito 84 triple as-is?
Old 08-02-2016, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by slither
hpergm early on suggested that rather than taking the FG84R3 off the market and fixing it, Saito would make a different version with Ray's fixes and the 84 would disappear... looks like that will turn out to be correct. See his quote below, from the FG60R3 thread... I think he may have nailed it!
Hey Slither, thanks for quoting me, makes me feel rather important (naaaah...! ).

Great find this preview ad for the FG90, but I am still hoping for an FG75 with the 225mm size of the FG-60 to fit most 50cc warbirds but swing another inch on the prop. Looking at it from a positive perspective, the 90 now creates more "space" between itself and the 60 - hope dies last.

Hector.
Old 08-02-2016, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by slither
hpergm early on suggested that rather than taking the FG84R3 off the market and fixing it, Saito would make a different version with Ray's fixes and the 84 would disappear... looks like that will turn out to be correct. See his quote below, from the FG60R3 thread... I think he may have nailed it!
An FG75R3 is merely an FA-450R3 converted to gas, perhaps with the Ray English mod. Nothing "new" there.

I look for a 3 cylinder radial with the FG-61T geometry next. FG-92R3
Old 08-02-2016, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
An FG75R3 is merely an FA-450R3 converted to gas, perhaps with the Ray English mod. Nothing "new" there.

I look for a 3 cylinder radial with the FG-61T geometry next. FG-92R3
Ray's mods would be new on the 450, as would converting to gas. That being said, I wouldn't expect that anytime soon.

I wouldn't hold your breath for the FG92R3, either, if they are making an FG90R3... now if this is a prototype and they are looking at all options, then.... maybe.

The point of my comment was that hpergm seems to have called it long ago...

Last edited by slither; 08-02-2016 at 05:22 PM.
Old 08-03-2016, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by slither
Ray's mods would be new on the 450, as would converting to gas. That being said, I wouldn't expect that anytime soon.

I wouldn't hold your breath for the FG92R3, either, if they are making an FG90R3... now if this is a prototype and they are looking at all options, then.... maybe.

The point of my comment was that hpergm seems to have called it long ago...
Actually I predicted it over a year ago.But I would be willing to bet that rather than using the FA-180 stroke and cylinders, they will use the larger bore FG-61 cylinders and the stock FA-450/FG-84 stroke.
Old 08-04-2016, 02:36 PM
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Sorry I missed that... I remembered that someone had said it and his was the first reference I came across when I looked. OK, so SrTelemaster150 and hpergm both nailed it! Good call!
Old 08-05-2016, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by slither
Sorry I missed that... I remembered that someone had said it and his was the first reference I came across when I looked. OK, so SrTelemaster150 and hpergm both nailed it! Good call!
If you take the bore of the FG-61T and the FA-150 based stroke of the FA-450/FG-84, x 3 it comes out to 89.9992 cc.


By doing this, Saito is skirting any kind of design liability for the FG-84R3 faults.

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 08-05-2016 at 02:21 PM.
Old 09-11-2016, 10:07 AM
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Ok, so I've read through this thread and found a lot of good info. However that was a while ago, I just want to make sure my FG33 is doing it's "normal" performance issues.

So first one is that the #1 cylinder valves (especially the exhaust) are pretty much dry. Bearly no oil when I pull off the valve covers. While 2 and 3 are soaked.

I am running a touch more then the recomended ratio using Red Line 2 stroke oil. Cylinder temps are not as far off as I would have thought. Got about 15 C spread between #1, and #2(could be 3, I forget which one I put the temp prob on) and #1 is hitting about 135 C (275 F) on the ground during sustained high power running, and it can peak at that in flight as well if I do any prolonged full power flying.

I am running a Xoar WWII 17x8 prop and I am getting about 7900 RPM on the ground. With a Keleo exhaust.

Neddles are set to about 1 1/4-1 1/2 on the high, and I tried 7 1/2 on the low but noticed a hesitation on transition and a slow return to idle so I set it to about 7 3/4. With those settings idle is decent, and transition is just ok with mideocer mid range.

So from what I am reading this seems to be par for the course, what I am most concerned with though, is the lack of oil on the #1 valves. This is what I would like most to remedy. I have my 33 installed on a hangar 9 20 cc Corsair, so gettin every last RPM out of it is not a huge priority. Just want to make sure it stays lubed and reliable.
Old 09-11-2016, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by slither
hpergm early on suggested that rather than taking the FG84R3 off the market and fixing it, Saito would make a different version with Ray's fixes and the 84 would disappear... looks like that will turn out to be correct. See his quote below, from the FG60R3 thread... I think he may have nailed it!
If the search function was worth a darn on this site I would find the post where I predicted the same thing over a year ago. What made my post unique was that the resident Horizon Hobby rep immediately posted back saying that an FG-90R3 was not in the future.

My prediction was to base the engine on the existing FG-84 with an FA-180 stroke. That would have resulted in an FG-87 (no the FA-180 isn't a 1.8 cu in engine but 1.77 cu in (29.1cc)

Instead they used the FG-61T bore & kept the FA-450 derived bottom end. The FG-61T has a slightly longer stroke hence the 30.5cc per cylinder.

Doing that absolved them of admitting that the FG-84 was a flawed design.

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 09-12-2016 at 04:06 AM.
Old 09-11-2016, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by deadstick79
Hi All,
How many of y'all have the Saito FG84 without Ray's mods and are happy with it?
Thanks,
DAn
Awesome! Runs really well throughout rpm spectrum. No lag, real smooth, temp within 3-4 degrees of each other.


I apologize I miss read (without) I have Ray's mod.

Last edited by AV8ATOR; 09-12-2016 at 02:11 PM. Reason: Did not read it correctly.
Old 09-11-2016, 11:55 PM
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Wow, I would like to hear more owners chime here that have the FG84 that are without Ray's mods and have a few hours on them , say like 25 to 30 flights, minimum .
Old 09-12-2016, 12:33 AM
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+30 flights on my stock engine.

Overshot the runway on my last flight during landing, and broke my prop.

Paint on my stock exhausts is falling off.
But it runs great, and sounds fantastic
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Old 09-12-2016, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by slither
Ray's mods would be new on the 450, as would converting to gas. That being said, I wouldn't expect that anytime soon.

I wouldn't hold your breath for the FG92R3, either, if they are making an FG90R3... now if this is a prototype and they are looking at all options, then.... maybe.

The point of my comment was that hpergm seems to have called it long ago...
Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
Actually I predicted it over a year ago.But I would be willing to bet that rather than using the FA-180 stroke and cylinders, they will use the larger bore FG-61 cylinders and the stock FA-450/FG-84 stroke.

HERE IS MY POST from 8/7/15 and THIS WAS THE RESPONSE from a HH rep.
Old 05-29-2017, 09:58 AM
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I three 170 R3's, 1 200 and 2 450's The 200 and a 450 are being modified by Ray now. I also have an OS 7 cyl on which I have CH ignigion. I have experimented using mix of Gas and glo fuel up to 50-50. It works fine with only slight increase in needle sensitivity. Intend to try on the 450.
Don T Newcastle WY
Old 05-29-2017, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by jdthor
I three 170 R3's, 1 200 and 2 450's The 200 and a 450 are being modified by Ray now. I also have an OS 7 cyl on which I have CH ignigion. I have experimented using mix of Gas and glo fuel up to 50-50. It works fine with only slight increase in needle sensitivity. Intend to try on the 450.
Don T Newcastle WY
I hate u !
Old 06-08-2017, 03:48 AM
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jdthor,
Just curious....
Is the reason that you are having your 450 modified by Ray is because of overheating issues?
I have one of these beauties NIB and was trying to decide whether to just send it off to Ray or wait to see if It developes a problem.

Thanks
Old 09-23-2017, 11:28 AM
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Had my fg84 for over 2 years. no mods, run perfect. On the last flight the wing broke. its the first plane in this video
Old 09-25-2017, 12:34 PM
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Tough break! What kit were you flying?
Old 09-25-2017, 08:14 PM
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it was this kit Polikarpov I16 "RATA" (Mosca)
Way to heavy. 200cm vs and 12kg
Old 09-26-2017, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by tyor
it was this kit Polikarpov I16 "RATA" (Mosca)
Way to heavy. 200cm vs and 12kg
I looked at these kits... NICE.
but I do not see RETRACTS offered? What did you use for landing gear?
Old 09-26-2017, 12:27 PM
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I used this retract Electric Retractable Landing Gear for Main Wheel Servoless RC aircra PZ-15096B # eBay

and legs from unitracts

But I dont recomend this kit. it is nice but heavy. almost immpossible to land. it will tipstall if you try to fly slower than 60km/t

I have startet on a new one. in wood. from a drawing by peter kriz. it is 2.3meter an I will use the fg84.
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Old 12-23-2017, 10:12 AM
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test of custom ekshaust and 21.6" variprop. engine a little rich. was just checking that the ekshaust dont have a leak. it wil be mountet in a cy-model p47
Old 12-24-2017, 05:29 PM
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Looks & sounds very cool!

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