Notices
Gas Engines Questions or comments about gas engines can be posted here

Hand Propping a Gasser

Old 10-19-2013, 12:08 AM
  #51  
Bozarth
My Feedback: (15)
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Aurora, CO
Posts: 1,297
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by mogman
I tell people it's to contain the severed finger(s) so that the dog doesn't get it ...lol

Seriously, I use one in case of a "whack".... it stings a little less.
Seems like overconfidence in the glove, and an under appreciation of the power of the prop.

Kurt
Old 10-19-2013, 03:49 AM
  #52  
mike31
My Feedback: (67)
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: York, ME
Posts: 724
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I prefer the 11-12 o'clock position. The hand goes down and away naturally.
Old 10-19-2013, 06:42 AM
  #53  
Jim Branaum
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX
Posts: 2,633
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by mike31
I prefer the 11-12 o'clock position. The hand goes down and away naturally.
I was 'taught' by some of the early big bird guys that 1 to 2 was better since it does not have you leaning over the prop and it allows you to follow through by getting your hand out of the prop arc.

But my kids tell me that was a long time ago and things are supposed to have changed

These days I look for a choke assembly to close so the fuel is pulled into the engine without having my hands near it during starting operations. If you don't have one of these, either get one or find a way to put gas in the carb.

Generally I turn on the radio, fully choke the engine, turn on the ignition, set the throttle to idle, and prop it like I was going to start it until it pops or actually starts. If it starts, I just wait for it to quit because the mixture is way to rich. Then I remove the choke, set the idle to throttle, and prop it until it starts.
Old 10-19-2013, 07:44 AM
  #54  
cloudancer03
My Feedback: (22)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: palm harbor, FL
Posts: 2,232
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I used to hand start engines finally I bought a starter, I know guys hand flip more power to them.i am not good at hand starting and being left handed I prefer a starter .
Old 10-19-2013, 10:01 AM
  #55  
Jim Branaum
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX
Posts: 2,633
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by cloudancer03
I used to hand start engines finally I bought a starter, I know guys hand flip more power to them.i am not good at hand starting and being left handed I prefer a starter .
In my opinion lefties should ALWAYS use a starter!
Old 10-19-2013, 12:42 PM
  #56  
on_your_six
My Feedback: (11)
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Maryland, MD
Posts: 1,399
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

Your point is well taken... does the on-board starter prevent me from flying the airplane when I am dead stick?? I hope not... fly the plane first, fly the plane second, and fly the plane third. I would think that most reasons for an engine to quit in the air are not solved by hitting the starter switch.

I have a good friend who had a horrible prop strike experience. I don't wish this to happen to anyone. My advise is to not use anything but a full leather glove to start the engine. I use an electric starter, but have tossed a few. There has to be a better way of starting model airplane engines. As my experience with the on-board starter increases, I will try to let people know the good and the bad of using them.

Originally Posted by Truckracer
I can see it now, that little starter running it's little tail off trying to get the engine restarted all the way to the scene of the crash!

I mean that in good humor so hope you take it that way. I always thought an onboard starter would be neat to have especially on a scale airplane.
Old 10-26-2013, 12:10 AM
  #57  
thailazer
Thread Starter
 
thailazer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Liberty Lake, WA
Posts: 1,566
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Starting and running this twin seems fine, but I've had a few fuel spill issues that really scare me. The fire hazards of these engines seems more significant than any of my past glow fuel experiences. I used to work on small engines when I was going to high school and feel I might have used up my nine lives back then!
Old 11-16-2013, 03:40 AM
  #58  
thailazer
Thread Starter
 
thailazer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Liberty Lake, WA
Posts: 1,566
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Just an update...... Turns out that the original Delorto carb's diaphragms are totally deformed, making fuel tank position way too critical. Bought a new carb today at a local small engine shop so will give engine another chance. I have some mods to do to make the ignition advance work, but it all looks hopeful.
Old 11-16-2013, 08:26 AM
  #59  
larry@coyotenet
My Feedback: (21)
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: pueblo, CO
Posts: 706
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

Hand propping is all technique. I hand prop all my gassers and most of my friends magneto engines. Main thing to remember is to give it a good, strong flip. Best way to get bit is to try flipping like a wimp! If you can start a glow engine any gas engine with electronic ignition is a snap. Main thing to be careful about is to have a firm grip on the prop when you are choking the engine and if it is electronic ignition choke it with the ignition off!
Larry
Old 11-16-2013, 01:46 PM
  #60  
Jim Branaum
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX
Posts: 2,633
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by larry@coyotenet
Hand propping is all technique. I hand prop all my gassers and most of my friends magneto engines. Main thing to remember is to give it a good, strong flip. Best way to get bit is to try flipping like a wimp! If you can start a glow engine any gas engine with electronic ignition is a snap. Main thing to be careful about is to have a firm grip on the prop when you are choking the engine and if it is electronic ignition choke it with the ignition off!
Larry
Hmm....

Gas engines really like to be real wet. I was taught to flip the prop with the choke and ignition on until it pops then remove the choke and flip until it starts. If it happens to fully start with the choke on and you cannot remove the choke, turn the ignition off to remove the choke and try it with no choke.
YMMV
Old 11-16-2013, 04:07 PM
  #61  
av8tor1977
My Feedback: (6)
 
av8tor1977's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 7,217
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

It's really no big deal to hand prop if it is done properly. Thousands of starts around the world are done without injury. And many full size airplanes didn't even have starting systems throughout the '40's.

The manner many of us use to start an engine with the choke on actually ends up with a flooded engine. It takes a few flips with the choke on to get it to fire and then quit. At that point the engine is flooded. (That's why it quit.) Then you have to open the choke and flip numerous times to clear out the flood and get a good start. On any of my planes whereby the carb throat or velocity stack is accessible, I do a different starting procedure. I open the throttle, verify that the ignition is off, then while holding a firm grip on the prop I turn the engine over with my finger over the carb throat or velocity stack until I can feel fuel on my finger. You'll know when, because when the fuel hits your finger it will feel cold. Then, throttle a touch above idle, choke open, ignition on, and they start first flip nearly every time. Saves a bunch of that scary "propping" that we have been talking about in this thread.....

AV8TOR
Old 11-16-2013, 08:31 PM
  #62  
Indiomike
My Feedback: (5)
 
Indiomike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indio, CA
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I have gassers from 20cc to 55cc. I am a lefty but flip with my right hand. It becomes natural after a few repetitions. I wear a welders glove.

I have a hobby store bought chicken stick that I used on glow engines. Really never like it as it has a hard plastic material on it and it just didn't feel right. I heard of people using a paint roller. I tried one on a DLE20 a few days ago and was pleasantly surprised. It worked very well and had a much better feel than the designed stick. I think I will use the paint roller as my primary means of starting all my gassers from now on. I have a 12/24 volt Sullivan electric starter that I can use if hand flipping (roller) doesn't get the engine going.

If you haven't tried a paint roller, give it a shot. You may be very pleased with the results.

Mike
Old 11-16-2013, 09:56 PM
  #63  
1QwkSport2.5r
 
1QwkSport2.5r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Cottage Grove, MN
Posts: 10,406
Received 74 Likes on 67 Posts
Default

I will backflip my smaller glow engines
Old 11-17-2013, 04:52 AM
  #64  
coralcape
My Feedback: (4)
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: cape coral, FL
Posts: 312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Ok,ok,ok,ok, all good statements as to why you should hand start; but can you honestly say you've never made a boo boo and got bit? Let me tell you the incident that made me change my mind about hand starting. Was asked to find problem with friends engine. I did the normal things, switch on, hand turned "till I got a bump and then a good strong flip. That sucker (4.2 sachs)nearly took my hand off. Found out the throttle was reversed and engine had manual advance. I was starting a wet engine at close to full throttle. So folks, chicken stick from now on. Keep smiling, it confuses 'em, red
Old 11-17-2013, 12:08 PM
  #65  
av8tor1977
My Feedback: (6)
 
av8tor1977's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 7,217
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Well, it can happen; you can get bit if you get the least bit complacent, distracted, or in a hurry. In 45 years of modeling, I only got bit once. And ironically, it wasn't starting an engine, it was one already running. I was in a hurry and it was bitter cold out. I was trying to get a .40 size glow engine fine tuned so I could get inside out of the cold. I thought "one more tweek of the needle ought to do it" and proceeded to reach right through the prop arc to do so. The little .40 was only at idle, but it still cut four fingers right to the bone, including two of them right through the finger nails. My hands were so cold I didn't really know how badly I was hurt at first, but when my hands got warmed up the pain set in for real!

My dad got me my first airplane, a Cox .049 powered u-control Mustang when I was only 8 or 9. It still amazes me that he let me start and run that thing by myself being so young..... He was very busy and kept telling me "one of these days I'll have the time and we'll go fly it." Well, I used to take it down to the basement in the winter and fire it up and I was tired of waiting to go fly it. One time, in one of the most impulsive moments of my life, I had the thought "I wonder what would happen if I let go of it?", and then I did so. It made the most beautiful take off across the basement floor, then impacted the wall on the opposite side of the basement about four feet up. Wasn't much left of the airplane, and man were my parents pissed!!!

AV8TOR
Old 11-17-2013, 01:09 PM
  #66  
speedracerntrixie
My Feedback: (29)
 
speedracerntrixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Happy Valley, Oregon
Posts: 9,488
Received 172 Likes on 148 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by coralcape
Ok,ok,ok,ok, all good statements as to why you should hand start; but can you honestly say you've never made a boo boo and got bit? Let me tell you the incident that made me change my mind about hand starting. Was asked to find problem with friends engine. I did the normal things, switch on, hand turned "till I got a bump and then a good strong flip. That sucker (4.2 sachs)nearly took my hand off. Found out the throttle was reversed and engine had manual advance. I was starting a wet engine at close to full throttle. So folks, chicken stick from now on. Keep smiling, it confuses 'em, red
The problem here was not with the starting method but the fact that you didn't check out the setup before jumping in and flipping the engine over.
Old 11-17-2013, 02:30 PM
  #67  
Truckracer
My Feedback: (19)
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 5,329
Received 43 Likes on 42 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
The problem here was not with the starting method but the fact that you didn't check out the setup before jumping in and flipping the engine over.
I agree. Over the years, I've seen so many gas engines come to the field with the throttle linkage set incorrectly. Throttle direction, endpoints, etc. not even close to what they should be. So many cases where the owner had no clue whether the throttle direction was correct or not ...... they usually comment something like "we'll just sort it out here at the field".
Old 11-17-2013, 05:51 PM
  #68  
av8tor1977
My Feedback: (6)
 
av8tor1977's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 7,217
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Truckracer
I agree. Over the years, I've seen so many gas engines come to the field with the throttle linkage set incorrectly. Throttle direction, endpoints, etc. not even close to what they should be. So many cases where the owner had no clue whether the throttle direction was correct or not ...... they usually comment something like "we'll just sort it out here at the field".
When you deal in retail trade, sometimes you get to wondering how the hell the world keeps going "around and around". After having interacted with the public in general (layman in the street) for many years, I really do wonder how something as complex as a model airplane can even exist (or continue to exist) in today's world!! I've heard said "people as a group are basically ignorant and clueless", and I unfortunately have to agree quite often.

The ones that are the most offensive, dangerous, and common, are the ones that think they know it all and nobody can tell or teach them anything. Those are the ones that end up seriously hurting themselves, and god forbid, someone else in the process.... There are some that come to the flying field not knowing what to do, but aren't afraid to ask for help. Those are the ones that one is happy to help out. The "know it alls" unfortunately aren't open to help, and thus tend to wreak havoc.

AV8TOR
Old 11-17-2013, 06:01 PM
  #69  
ahicks
My Feedback: (2)
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Waterford, Mi/Citrus Springs, Fl
Posts: 3,821
Received 19 Likes on 17 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by coralcape
Ok,ok,ok,ok, all good statements as to why you should hand start; but can you honestly say you've never made a boo boo and got bit? Let me tell you the incident that made me change my mind about hand starting. Was asked to find problem with friends engine. I did the normal things, switch on, hand turned "till I got a bump and then a good strong flip. That sucker (4.2 sachs)nearly took my hand off. Found out the throttle was reversed and engine had manual advance. I was starting a wet engine at close to full throttle. So folks, chicken stick from now on. Keep smiling, it confuses 'em, red
We all make mistakes. For many MANY years, I managed to take off with my ailerons moving in the proper direction. Last year I broke that string! Stupid!

That said, we are talking about STARTING an engine here? The carnage I generally see happens afterward, when somebody sticks their hand into a spinning prop? Can't say I've witnessed anyone badly hurt starting one. Whacked finger, sure, but not carnage. Must be lucky.... -Al
Old 11-17-2013, 06:56 PM
  #70  
hellbringer120
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: DeridderLouisiana
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Their are 3 different guys at my flying field (YES 3 PEOPLE) that have 9 fingers!!!
Every single one of these guys are missing the pointer finger from their right hand. You tell me what you want to use?
Old 11-17-2013, 07:25 PM
  #71  
speedracerntrixie
My Feedback: (29)
 
speedracerntrixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Happy Valley, Oregon
Posts: 9,488
Received 172 Likes on 148 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by hellbringer120
Their are 3 different guys at my flying field (YES 3 PEOPLE) that have 9 fingers!!!
Every single one of these guys are missing the pointer finger from their right hand. You tell me what you want to use?
I feel the need to be a bit blunt here. I'm guessing those 3 guys just got careless. I fully agree that safety has to be the # 1 priority here but IMO hand flipping a Gasser gives the highest degree of control. That being said, I would never finger flip a 2 stroke glow engine ( bump start ) nor would I ever hand start a glow 4 stroke. I think the key here to being safe is make darned sure that no matter what engine you are running it is installed and set up correctly. Check and double check everything. If you are 20 flips into starting an engine and still no go then stop and find the problem. Keep looking until you find an issue DO NOT continue to attempt to start an engine that is not operating normally
Old 11-17-2013, 07:34 PM
  #72  
Jim Branaum
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX
Posts: 2,633
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by hellbringer120
Their are 3 different guys at my flying field (YES 3 PEOPLE) that have 9 fingers!!!
Every single one of these guys are missing the pointer finger from their right hand. You tell me what you want to use?
I hand start my gassers, but I wear a glove and I am very cautious.

I will probably try the paint roller trick on the bigger stuff. Thanks in advance for that idea!

I use an aluminum chicken stick with radiator hose around it for all, repeat ALL of my glow engines unless I feel forced to break out the starter.
Old 11-18-2013, 06:35 AM
  #73  
MTK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Whippany, NJ
Posts: 5,386
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by hellbringer120
Their are 3 different guys at my flying field (YES 3 PEOPLE) that have 9 fingers!!!
Every single one of these guys are missing the pointer finger from their right hand. You tell me what you want to use?
I'll assume that these guys lost their index fingers to prop strikes....Good GOD why would anybody use their unprotected finger as a chicken stick. At what point does a chicken stick become an IQ160 stick?How about "Genius Stick"??

Last edited by MTK; 11-18-2013 at 08:57 AM.
Old 11-18-2013, 07:00 AM
  #74  
AlexL
My Feedback: (4)
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Thornhill, ON, CANADA
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Ever since I started having hip problem - waiting for a hip replacement.

The right hip hurts so much after going through the exercise of flipping the prop trying to hand start my gas engines. I finally bit the bullet and bought myself a starter.

With a 12-v marine battery, the engine starting is becoming a joy, and I wonder two things:

1. Is my hip problem caused by the motion of hand starting ?

2. why didn't I do (I mean buying the starter) sooner; save all the grieves. For the money, and saftey, go for it, friends.

Alex
Old 11-18-2013, 01:12 PM
  #75  
av8tor1977
My Feedback: (6)
 
av8tor1977's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 7,217
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Now you will develop back problems from lugging that starter, and particularly the battery around.

I love being able to grab a small tool box, a jug of fuel, and my airplane and going flying. One caveat to my advocating hand propping; don't do it with an APC prop. They are like razors!

As far as glow engines, I've never owned a glow engine larger than a .78 Fox. I have a .78 Fox and the newer .74 Fox. I always hand start them and they are super easy to start. However I do use a rubber finger protector to protect my skin from those sharp trailing edges.

Someone mentioned timing. Now there is something that is critical. I have made several twin cylinder engines out of two Echo 24cc engines. For some reason they don't like the standard 28 degrees of timing, and will back fire and possibly try to bite you if set at that timing figure. Back them off to about 24 degrees, and they hand start beautifully. I convert industrial engines for use on model airplanes, and also do a lot of engine modification. (Soup them up!) I will admit that I often use an electric starter to get them going and dialed in before I go hand starting them. Best to "get to know them" before risking my fingers....

Here is the starter I use. I made it out of an electric scooter motor. It is a 24 volt motor and I use it on 6 3500 mah LiPoly batteries. Works great!!

AV8TOR
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4723.jpg
Views:	57
Size:	88.4 KB
ID:	1940363   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4722.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	90.4 KB
ID:	1940364   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4724.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	92.3 KB
ID:	1940365  

Last edited by av8tor1977; 11-18-2013 at 01:19 PM.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.