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Hand Propping a Gasser

Old 11-18-2013, 01:21 PM
  #76  
AlexL
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"develop back problems from lugging that starter, and particularly the battery around"

That's a good one. LMAO.

Might taking up flower arrangement for hobby instead.

Alex
Old 11-18-2013, 01:57 PM
  #77  
DMichael
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
The problem here was not with the starting method but the fact that you didn't check out the setup before jumping in and flipping the engine over.

I agree with you - BUT - I recognize that I can make mistakes or get complacent sometimes. I think everyone can say they can or have the capacity to do so. For that reason I have used a chicken stick for years on everything up to 210cc engines. I use the Start-R-Stick from Davis Diesel Development. Works great and I have good control. You could make one up yourself with a thick dowel, a kids bike handle and some tubing from the hardware store.





That being said- it was touched on earlier but I think is the biggest danger- making sure the plane is held securely. I don't recommend using a rope- they go slack and the plane will jump sometimes if the throttle is high enough. That's the real recipe for disaster. On_Your_Six and I know that same guy who lost some fingers this way. Your instinct is to put your hands out when danger approaches.
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Old 11-19-2013, 04:44 AM
  #78  
thailazer
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I appreciate all the safety advice. Worthy stuff. I went to the local small engine shop and the fellow there recommended a carb that was almost an exact physical replacement for the Delorto. I can see why as I can start the engine on the first flip every time. (With a cold engine I prime with 5 drops a fuel down the carb, pull 5 blades through with the carb choked and the ignition off, and then flip. Subsequent starts are just flip and it starts.) I am not using a stick as it predictably starts to a nice slow idle, but I am being very careful to make sure the throttle is closed. The engine has a scary amount of power once throttled up. I have some vibration issues to work out as it seems to shake too much on the engine stand. Am hoping it is just prop balancing. Thanks again for all the advice on this thread.
Old 11-19-2013, 05:54 AM
  #79  
ahicks
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Do the best you can balancing, but it's still a single cylinder engine in the end. Shaking is just something they do. A lot of it - especially in a stand. Something you get used to when going gas. Best of luck! -Al
Old 11-29-2013, 07:57 PM
  #80  
flatsguide
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You may want to try finding a "Sap" glove in a police supply store. It has powdered lead all along the top of the fingers and knuckles. I don't think a prop would cut you through one of them.

R
Old 12-12-2013, 04:14 PM
  #81  
thailazer
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Was getting pretty confident hand-propping the engine after getting the new carb, but one day last week before I connected up the mechanical ignition advance I was trying different fixed timing positions. Sure enough on one start, the engine kicked off as I was propping it and really got my middle finger. It throbbed for two days but no injury beyond a really good whack. After that wake-up call I started using a 3/4 inch piece of PVC pipe 14 inches long and that really works well and keeps you a safer distance from the engine. (Similar to the paint roller idea.) At any rate, I got the engine starting and running very well now so I took it off the test stand and put it in storage until I decide to build a plane for it or sell it. Again, I appreciate all the advice on this thread, and I'll be using that PVC pipe no matter how faithful it seems to be.
Old 12-12-2013, 04:44 PM
  #82  
av8tor1977
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You know, the most important thing I think is to do what you are truly comfortable with doing. If you are hesitant or outright afraid of hand propping an engine, DON'T do it. Your trepidation may be your downfall if you do something you are not comfortable doing. I quite often start up a new engine setup, type, mod, or whatever with a starter until I know how it is going to act. My brother is a good example of what can happen if you do something you are not sure about. I told him that an engine I set up for him was safe and easy to hand start. But he was, and still is very, very, wary about hand propping engines. Consequently when he started the engine in question, he was so concerned about getting his fingers whacked that he propped the engine so hard he smashed three of his fingers into the ground, spraining two and cutting one open. The engine started, and he had this shocked look on his face. Then he showed me his hand. I felt badly, because I had encouraged him to go ahead and learn to hand start the engine, since I had already proved that it was easy and safe to do so in that particular case. But his fear made the difference and made it literally unsafe for him to hand start the engine.

Do whatever you feel personally comfortable doing.

AV8TOR

Last edited by av8tor1977; 12-12-2013 at 04:49 PM.
Old 12-12-2013, 08:04 PM
  #83  
tkg
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1. A heavy leather glove or a Motocross glove.
2. If you are afraid it will bite you.
3. If you respect it you will be much safer.
4. Develope a procedure STICK WITH IT, being destracted will get you bit or worse.
Old 12-13-2013, 07:38 AM
  #84  
Jim Branaum
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Originally Posted by tkg View Post
1. A heavy leather glove or a Motocross glove.
2. If you are afraid it will bite you.
3. If you respect it you will be much safer.
4. Develope a procedure STICK WITH IT, being destracted will get you bit or worse.

QFT!

The ONLY think different is that *I* use a filet glove I bought at Walmart.
Old 12-13-2013, 07:10 PM
  #85  
thailazer
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I tried a leather glove I had but found it inconvenient to put on and take off. The PVC pipe works well as you just lay it down as soon as the engine starts. For me, developing a habit to always use the pipe is easier than ensuring I would always wear a glove. I am sure it works well for those that find a glove is convenient.
Old 01-04-2015, 11:36 PM
  #86  
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Thought I would update this thread as I have gained more experience with starting my Tartan Twin. First of all, I have upgraded that 14 inch piece of PVC to a 14 inch piece of PP-R piping which is softer and heavier. This twin has VERY HIGH compression and it is much different than the DLE single cylinder engines my friends are running. No way I would dare to try hand propping this engine, even with a glove after getting rapped a few times. The pipe is very safe and gives me some leverage for a good flick.

Another thing I am doing is not choking at all. I drilled a hole in the top of my air scoop and drop in about six drops of fuel directly down the carb throat. That usually gets the engine popping on the first flick, and running on about the third. I can see my fuel line, and if it has air, it takes more flicks to get the fuel to the carb. If it is fuel of fuel, it will usually start on the first or second flick. These engines sure have a lot of torque, even at idle and they need a lot respect.
Old 01-05-2015, 05:18 AM
  #87  
speedracerntrixie
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I'm glad that you were not injured. IMO however your starting method was not flawed, it was the fact that you were trying to start an engine with a unknown timing setting.
Old 01-05-2015, 09:37 AM
  #88  
WhiteRook
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on electronic ignitions , your only getting one spark per flip , i think you need more spark to get the engine fired up.
am i wrong ? correct me if.
Old 01-05-2015, 09:59 AM
  #89  
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You're wrong.
Old 01-05-2015, 09:59 AM
  #90  
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You're wrong.
Old 01-05-2015, 10:49 AM
  #91  
av8tor1977
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With our generally accepted manner of starting engines, we are actually flooding them and then flipping until the flood clears out. When you open the throttle, close the choke, and then flip until it starts, the engine starts and then dies because it is flooded. Then you open the choke and flip it until the food clears out and the engine finally starts again and keeps running. (Hopefully) That's why it takes so many flips to get one running. If you can get to the carb easily, there is a better way. You open the throttle and hold your finger over the carb inlet. Make sure the switch is off, then, holding the prop firmly you slowly turn the engine over until you feel your finger get wet. Then lower the throttle to idle or just above, turn the ignition switch on, and the engine will almost always start with one good flip.

AV8TOR
Old 01-05-2015, 11:04 AM
  #92  
Jim Branaum
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Originally Posted by av8tor1977 View Post
With our generally accepted manner of starting engines, we are actually flooding them and then flipping until the flood clears out. When you open the throttle, close the choke, and then flip until it starts, the engine starts and then dies because it is flooded. Then you open the choke and flip it until the food clears out and the engine finally starts again and keeps running. (Hopefully) That's why it takes so many flips to get one running. If you can get to the carb easily, there is a better way. You open the throttle and hold your finger over the carb inlet. Make sure the switch is off, then, holding the prop firmly you slowly turn the engine over until you feel your finger get wet. Then lower the throttle to idle or just above, turn the ignition switch on, and the engine will almost always start with one good flip.

AV8TOR
But it WORKS!
Old 01-05-2015, 11:14 AM
  #93  
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You can rock the prop back and forth against compression, that will pump fuel
Old 01-05-2015, 12:55 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by av8tor1977 View Post
With our generally accepted manner of starting engines, we are actually flooding them and then flipping until the flood clears out. When you open the throttle, close the choke, and then flip until it starts, the engine starts and then dies because it is flooded. Then you open the choke and flip it until the food clears out and the engine finally starts again and keeps running. (Hopefully) That's why it takes so many flips to get one running. If you can get to the carb easily, there is a better way. You open the throttle and hold your finger over the carb inlet. Make sure the switch is off, then, holding the prop firmly you slowly turn the engine over until you feel your finger get wet. Then lower the throttle to idle or just above, turn the ignition switch on, and the engine will almost always start with one good flip.

AV8TOR
Very well stated! But our typical starting methods work quite well and have proven to be fairly safe, especially with rear mounted or cowled carbs where you have no idea whether the carb is "wet" or not. On the other hand, I still have a couple of engines that have side mounted carbs with access through the side of the cowl. As you say, as soon as there is fuel dripping from the carb, open the choke and a start is no more than a couple of flips later.
Old 01-05-2015, 12:58 PM
  #95  
tande
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Originally Posted by thailazer View Post
Was getting pretty confident hand-propping the engine after getting the new carb, but one day last week before I connected up the mechanical ignition advance I was trying different fixed timing positions. Sure enough on one start, the engine kicked off as I was propping it and really got my middle finger. It throbbed for two days but no injury beyond a really good whack. After that wake-up call I started using a 3/4 inch piece of PVC pipe 14 inches long and that really works well and keeps you a safer distance from the engine. (Similar to the paint roller idea.) At any rate, I got the engine starting and running very well now so I took it off the test stand and put it in storage until I decide to build a plane for it or sell it. Again, I appreciate all the advice on this thread, and I'll be using that PVC pipe no matter how faithful it seems to be.
I have no idea of your age......but you are growing up so fast! .......I have asked this before & never could get a "Serious" answer.....What is the argument AGAINST using a start/stick? ......
Old 01-05-2015, 01:43 PM
  #96  
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I can't think of any legitimate argument against using a stick. If I'm going to bust a prop with a back fire I'd damn sure rather it be a paint roller or something and not my fingers. But i lay the tips of my fingers on the face of the prop blade when I flip so I don't get my fingers smacked.
Old 01-05-2015, 04:08 PM
  #97  
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I know that a good many risk their hand and fingers hand starting hi powered nitro and gas engines.they are perfectly content and that's their business.this past summer after 3 decades of rc I endured a bloody prop strike that opened up a deep cut.yes it was my fault and I am humane.i do have and use a donation starter.if you have any doubts about your abilities or confidence don't do it by hand.the consequences are not worth it.
Old 01-05-2015, 06:00 PM
  #98  
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Well Guys I am going to beat a dead horse to death again I hope for the last time. What av8tor1977 said was right on the money as well as so many in here.
The bottom line is to have the engine ready to run, by checking the timing before hand with a degree wheel, setting the needles on the carb to a sensible setting such as 1-1/2 on both for a first time start.Making sure the Spark Plug is good plus the Ign unit.
Rocking the prop until gas is in the line,With (ign off) optional I will give it a flip or three then add some fire and go for it. I feel a good glove is a great way to keep all the digits in one place for reattachment later on. J/K *L* A good glove will have steel braces going down the back of each finger, yep you guessed it there expensive so most resort to a pair of Latex rubber gloves or maybe really spend the bucks and go with a set of Jerseys, then wonder what went flying by there heads the first flip, when they find out later on the engine was set at about 50 degrees BTDC and had 2-3 ounces of gas in the bottom of the cylinder.
I have yet to have to have a ball bat to beat one into submission to get it to start or run. An engine is really a brave little thing and don't much care what you threaten it with.
Iv'e also never had to use a starter from a 454 to spin it fast enough so the crankshaft can gain revs on the spark and give it more spark per turn *LOL*

Anyway it is how well the engine is pre tuned and primed that will determine how easy it will start providing a person doesn't have an problem child engine to start with. And just a few simple steps can make an engine enjoyable or a PITA.
Sorry for the rant Blames it on the Cat.
Old 01-05-2015, 11:23 PM
  #99  
av8tor1977
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I have a glove that I rarely use. The best deal on them is to buy leather welders gloves from Harbor Freight. They are long and really easy to get on and off and are made of a rather thick but comfortable leather. They are very reasonably priced too. On mine, I cut and glued strips cut from stiff outdoor pipe insulation onto the backs of the fingers with silicone glue. I very rarely use it though; only on large engines that I am starting for the first time or two until I get to know the engine and get it dialed in. I had a new 65cc four stroke engine give me a scare and a good painful whack once, that's why I bought/made the glove. Plus I have a couple of engines I still use APC props on, and those will cut up your fingers no matter how you flip them!

AV8TOR

Last edited by av8tor1977; 01-05-2015 at 11:28 PM.
Old 01-05-2015, 11:23 PM
  #100  
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