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Gas Engine for an Ugly Stik

Old 08-28-2014, 04:29 AM
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ETpilot
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Default Gas Engine for an Ugly Stik

I am getting back into RC flying and I am scratch building a .60size. 65" WS Ugly Stik. I am thinking of going with my first gas engine. Not sure what size to use. The only knowledge I have of gas engines is what I read on the forums. I have been reviewing the OS GT 15cc engine for this plane. Would this be a good choice? My main concern is prop clearance. I am going tricycle gear at first then convert to tail dragger once I get some flying experience. This plane will be like the Great Planes Big Stik.

Any tips on selecting an engine and any mods needed for fuselage build will be appreciated. The fuselage is the last item to build but not sure what mods I might need for a gas engine. If anymore specific info needed please let me know. I last flew glow engines in the 70's. Thanks.
Old 08-28-2014, 05:23 AM
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a70eliminator
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Taildragger all the way, forget the trike. Only thing about a gas motor is to pay extra attention to every single connection as vibration is your worst enemy.
Old 08-28-2014, 05:45 AM
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flyinwalenda
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For getting back into flying I would build it as a trike as it's much easier to handle on the ground. After you get comfortable you can pull the nose gear and move the mains forward and make it a tail dragger. The engine you choose depends how you will be building it. If it ends up being a bit heavy a 15cc would be a good choice . If it comes out at 7 lbs then a 10cc would be a good choice.
I still have a Sweet Stick I built in the late 70's and out of inexperience I over-built it and it was heavy. It flew with a 60 as a trike but wasn't that impressive. I converted it to a tail dragger and put a 90 on it with a MAS 3-blade prop (for ground clearance) and it hauled the mail.
As far as the plane,just make sure the firewall is strong and you have access and space to mount the ignition box.
As far as smaller gas engines I am flying the Evolution 10GX and 15GX engines and they work great and I've worked on (breaking-in) the smaller Saito's also and they are good too but a bit pricey. The smaller gas engines can be a bit overwhelming at first if you are not familiar running gas engines but after you get over the slight learning curve on break-in and tuning they run just as well as the larger gas engines.
Old 08-28-2014, 06:54 AM
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av8tor1977
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I would put a Valley View 20 or 21 on it myself. I have often set up this size Stik with 20cc engines and they work great. The weight is close to the same, and well, look at my "signature".

AV8TOR
Old 08-28-2014, 06:58 AM
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a70eliminator
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That's a 60 size stick! Looks more the giant one that I thought about putting us41 I got laying idle right now.
Old 08-28-2014, 02:47 PM
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av8tor1977
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Default Hot Giant Stik!

I have a 50cc twin cylinder engine on my Giant Stik. (Well, look at my "signature" below again!)

AV8TOR
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Old 08-29-2014, 03:03 AM
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ETpilot
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Hey thanks for the replies. I think I will proceed with my build keeping my OS engine choice in mind. I plan to pin the firewall and use thread locker on all hardware. I will start weighing my parts to get an idea of what the AC weight will be and also for configuring the balance point.

I need to to start with a trike gear for some flying experience then swap to tail dragger. I am putting in the necessary gear blocks to make the change in the future. I am going to make the trike gear a bit higher than normal for prop clearance. See how that works out.

This is going to be a trainer to get back into flying so slower will be good. Later, if needed, I can swap engine for more power.

Thanks to all for the info.
Old 08-29-2014, 04:44 AM
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ahicks
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First, WELCOME BACK!

I came back from a 15 year absence about 5 years ago (at 58 years young). I was REALLY concerned about my ability to get my thoughts passed to my fingers like I could when I was flying previously. What happened is that it wasn't as bad as what I had imagined. Although my capacity had been significantly reduced, I did not have to learn how to fly again at all. Basics (like cross wind landings for instance) came back very quickly. More advanced stuff (like rolling circles) was gone. That I had to start all over again (I still can't!).

Point being, don't sell yourself short. Be cautious if you like (trike gear), but don't sell yourself short.

Best of luck!
-Al
Old 08-29-2014, 08:09 AM
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av8tor1977
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I agree. I had about a 6 year hiatus once. After a couple of flights I was completely back to where I was when I quit. Sure was nervous on that first flight though. But then I was amazed as I quickly became comfortable again.

AV8TOR
Old 08-29-2014, 10:35 AM
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Checklst
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I would go with the 20 or 21cc ............I have the VVRC 21cc(valleyView) on my Sig 4star 60 and if flys great....power is just perfect....a 15 would fly it but a 20cc ups the fun factor.
Old 08-29-2014, 10:58 AM
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Truckracer
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Originally Posted by Checklst View Post
I would go with the 20 or 21cc ............I have the VVRC 21cc(valleyView) on my Sig 4star 60 and if flys great....power is just perfect....a 15 would fly it but a 20cc ups the fun factor.
And you can buy the 20 / 21 engines at a much better price! Very little weight difference so that is not a big issue.

Be sure to use pinned hinges on that Ugly Stick. With a gasser in the nose, a wire braced tail might be advisable also. If this is an old Das Ugly Stick design, there are quite a few areas in the construction that could use some updating.
Old 08-29-2014, 02:40 PM
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av8tor1977
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OS makes great engines, no doubt about that. But I really would put a 20cc on this plane after my experience with several Big Stiks with 20cc engines, and I definitely would go with one of the two Valley View offerings; probably the VV 21 low profile engine. I also recommend going with a tail dragger from the "git go". Set the rudder control to a small movement or put it on a dual rate, and/or use exponential on the rudder. You'll get used to the tail dragger in short order and be glad you did. Worse case scenario, if you find yourself really battling with take offs, add a gyro on the rudder... You can buy the gyro with the money you have left over from buying the Valley View engine instead of the OS. I would also actually venture to say that customer service would be even faster/easier with Valley View than through the OS dealers.

You are already adding some weight in the nose using a gasser, so I wouldn't recommend putting a nose gear on it too, especially since you eventually want a tail dragger anyway. (And rightly so!)

AV8TOR

Last edited by av8tor1977; 08-29-2014 at 02:46 PM.
Old 08-29-2014, 03:24 PM
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av8tor1977
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Additional note: I didn't use tail braces on the several gas powered Big Stiks I did, but I did glue triangle stock in all the intersections to beef things up a bit. Wire/cable tail braces are even easier to add though and add a ton of strength. Another thing I often do is make strut braces for the horizontal stabilizer out of streamlined aluminum tubing, and put them on the bottom only; sometimes combined with triangle stock glued on the top at the horizontal stab to vertical stab interface. Works great.

AV8TOR
Old 08-30-2014, 04:45 AM
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Thanks to all for your thoughts. Now you have me rethinking my build. I will review the Valley View engines, thinking more tail dragger and am reading up on gyros. I hope to get this sorted out for an October maiden flight.

So far i have flown an Ugly Stick at a FlyIn one time. Lost control a couple of times but most of the flight was good. I hope to get more stick time with this instructor but his availabity is rather limited. I will see how that goes.

Regarding the gas engine,say a 21cc, what size fuel tank should I use. Also any gyro recommendations.

Just to to be clear this Stik will have a 65" wingspan. It is a sized like the GP Big Stik. It will not be like the Giant Stik. Thanks for the construction advice. Some I have already considered, I will consider the new stuff. My wing is super strong for a gas engine. I just have to get started on the fuselage.
Old 08-30-2014, 04:48 AM
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Who is av8tor??? Never heard of him....Just kidding.....Have a Great Labor Day weekend. Capt,n ...scout
Old 08-30-2014, 06:49 AM
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Lightspeed1551
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Originally Posted by a70eliminator View Post
Taildragger all the way, forget the trike. Only thing about a gas motor is to pay extra attention to every single connection as vibration is your worst enemy.
OS Gas engines don't shake anymare then there glow cousins. Thay are nicely built, well balanced engines. I have the OS GT33, and my Dad has the GT 22 and GT 55. Just get a new good quality motor mount, good hardware, and a well balanced prop and you will be in great shape.
Old 08-30-2014, 07:38 AM
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ffdez
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I have a VVRC 20cc gas engine and placed a Giant Big Stik landing gear (tail dragger) for good prop clearance. 7.5 pounds and powerfull plane.
Old 08-30-2014, 08:06 AM
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Yep, go with taildragger to start. On a stick it will be child's play. The few trikes I have had I hated, ended up with bent nosegear half the time, and it just feels wrong! I also think that overcontrol on takeoff is more of an issue than on a TD.
I learned my powered flight skills on taildragger's (Ace 4-40, Astro hog and Hots II), and would not have done it any other way.
Do you have a flight sim? If not, and you do not want to purchase one, seek out a hobby store or friend with one and get a few minutes playtime to ease back in.

Good luck, sticks rock (I still have a Mini Ultra Stick, you may want to add one to your hangar later).
Old 08-30-2014, 08:15 AM
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CafeenMan
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I also vote taildragger. Ever since I got into the hobby there was this background noise about taildraggers being squirrely on the ground, yada, yada. They were the serial killer the woods that nobody knew who he was and nobody knew anyone who he ever killed but everyone knew someone who knew someone he killed... you get the point.

Anyway, I finally built my first taildragger and I never figured out what the fuss was. Since then almost all my planes have been taildraggers and except for some very small Pitts type biplanes (.15 size) all have been about zero problems. Anything .40 size or larger have been easy peezy.

Make it a tail dragger and don't even worry about it. They're so much easier to build and no nose gear makes the front end a lot easier to deal with.
Old 08-30-2014, 08:35 AM
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My two cents is agreement not go trike to start with. A fully agree with Al not to under-rate your ability to pick it back up. I was off for seventeen years and concerned that retraining was needed, had an old flier friend, take it off, trim the plane and stay close when it was time to land... but dismissed him after a minute and landed myself as most of the skills were still there.

I concur on a 20cc.and also on your thinking to lengthen the struts slightly from the design to increase prop clearance. Also, use a composite prop, at least to begin with. You will love gas and what is there not to love about a stick. I will always have one in the hanger.
Old 08-30-2014, 10:17 AM
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Default Gas Stiks

I also agree -- Tailwheel all the way. It will remind you of proper handling and your skills will be polished quickly. Besides it is too much work to go back and change the configuration, CG, etc all over again. Make it right from the beginning .

I have a gas engine on my smaller stik - see attached. Love it and it screams. I am trying out a 3 blade next week. It is my multi-purpose plane I fly with snow skis and it has a couple of camera mounts as well.
Enjoy and welcome back.
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Old 08-30-2014, 10:56 AM
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One thing I should add about taildraggers, is be cautious on applying power too quickly on take-off if you choose to overpower it.
I did this once on an Eflite Taylorcraft 450 and mowed the lawn! I think the downthrust was too much for the sudden burst of power with the larger than recommended motor, and I did not have much prop clearance. No biggie, did not even break the prop. This was about the only incident I have had with a TD.

Not trying to scare you or anything, just a little something to keep in mind.

Like a full size P51 Mustang, add power smoothly!
Plus taildraggers just look cooler, is everyone convincing you yet? :^)

Last edited by davevh; 08-30-2014 at 11:01 AM.
Old 08-30-2014, 12:30 PM
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JR Davis
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I have the same size Stick as you and I used a YW 24 cc gas engine turning a 17 " prop. It's a great combo, but I would recommend adding tail bracing/flying wires for added strength and I added triangle stock to the front former for more strength. I also increased the tire diameter to give more prop clearance since the landing gear tended to flex easily. The larger size engines(24-28cc) do greatly increase the fun factor.
Old 08-30-2014, 04:27 PM
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davidhand
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I put together a Giant Big Stick a couple of years ago. Trike U/C DLE30 engine, works great. One slight problem was the engine was so light I had to add a fair amount of weight to the nose. Ample power though. If I recall the design engines were an OS160 or some Fuji gas engine perhaps these engines are heavier.
Old 08-30-2014, 07:38 PM
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Bob Paris
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Aloha,
I built the same size Ugly Stick and installed a RCG 20cc gas engine into my model and was a really fun model to fly. Unlimited vertical and power up the gazuu...just loved the model. You may want to consider a few modifications to the model, depending on the balsa wood used on your airframe. I built the Great Planes .60~.90 size Ugly Stick, used the 35cc Ugly Stick landing gear (cheap and gave enough clearance for the prop-17x6), but I had to soft balsa in my tail section and ended up applying 1/64 plywood on the tail on all four sides, from 3" forward of the rudder, aft to the mid area of the stabilizer. I also beefed up the landing gear floor with 1/4" light ply, from the second bulkhead, aft 6". Mine was a tail dragger, with 4" wheels and I mounted my rudder and elevator servo's in the aft part of the model near the tail.

It was an amazingly fun model to fly with a vertical presentation that will never end. I used Flaperons and with partial flaps, the model would be airborne in less then 5'. Easy to take off and easier to land. Very predictable in the air and a glide that almost never ends.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui

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