DLE 20 running rough
09-09-2014, 04:56 PM
#1
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (12)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Park Falls, WI
Posts: 598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DLE 20 running rough
My DLE 20 is driving me nuts! I need help guy's. It runs like crap, sounds like it is missing. I have gone through the carb, I have even bought a second. I bought the Walbro gauge to set the metering lever correctly, I don't know what else to do. I get an idle speed at about 1800 rpm but, no lower. I get good transition from idle to wot but it still sounds like a 4 cylinder engine with one cylinder missing. I suspect the ignition module, has I said it sounds like a 4 cylinder engine with a bad cylinder. What do you think??????
Any help would sure be appreciated.
Bob
Any help would sure be appreciated.
Bob
09-10-2014, 04:17 AM
#3
My Feedback: (2)
Well, it's not a V-8. They're a little rough when they're right, so not sure if that's the issue you're concerned with, or if it's something else?
If you listen to an idling chain saw, leaf blower, whatever, they're kind of rough as well - until you increase the throttle setting and put a load on it. Then it's smooths out. Our gassers (all of them, not just the DLE) are the same way for the most part. In level flight (cruise), much of the time there isn't enough load on the engine to really force that even tone. Pull the nose up though, and it will smooth right out. Put the engine in a dirty airframe (WW 1 era for instance) with a big prop on it, and you'll be rid of that issue....
That rough, unsteady thing they're doing is called 4 stroking (because it's not hitting on every power stroke). The much smoother, more even thing they do under load is called 2 stroking.
1800 rpm idle is fine. You'll likely do a little better as it breaks in if you require that.
What prop are you using, and how many rpm will it turn when wide open? If you're running a 16x8 or 17x6, the 2 more common props, you should be up over 8000 rpm. Broken in, something close to sea level, maybe closer to 8500rpm. If it's doing that, I doubt there's anything wrong with the engine.
If you're trying to get a new engine running smooth in a test stand, forget it. LOTS of vibration. Same thing running one that's mounted in a fuse with no wing on it. Installing the wings will cut that rocking and rolling big time. If you're looking at the tail feathers shaking on idle like an excited puppy, that's why we suggest you add flying wires.
There's also a possibility the reed valves aren't sealing properly. If it's none of the above, that's where I would go next, especially if it's a pain to start.
-Al
If you listen to an idling chain saw, leaf blower, whatever, they're kind of rough as well - until you increase the throttle setting and put a load on it. Then it's smooths out. Our gassers (all of them, not just the DLE) are the same way for the most part. In level flight (cruise), much of the time there isn't enough load on the engine to really force that even tone. Pull the nose up though, and it will smooth right out. Put the engine in a dirty airframe (WW 1 era for instance) with a big prop on it, and you'll be rid of that issue....
That rough, unsteady thing they're doing is called 4 stroking (because it's not hitting on every power stroke). The much smoother, more even thing they do under load is called 2 stroking.
1800 rpm idle is fine. You'll likely do a little better as it breaks in if you require that.
What prop are you using, and how many rpm will it turn when wide open? If you're running a 16x8 or 17x6, the 2 more common props, you should be up over 8000 rpm. Broken in, something close to sea level, maybe closer to 8500rpm. If it's doing that, I doubt there's anything wrong with the engine.
If you're trying to get a new engine running smooth in a test stand, forget it. LOTS of vibration. Same thing running one that's mounted in a fuse with no wing on it. Installing the wings will cut that rocking and rolling big time. If you're looking at the tail feathers shaking on idle like an excited puppy, that's why we suggest you add flying wires.
There's also a possibility the reed valves aren't sealing properly. If it's none of the above, that's where I would go next, especially if it's a pain to start.
-Al
09-10-2014, 05:48 AM
#4
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (12)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Park Falls, WI
Posts: 598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, it's not a V-8. They're a little rough when they're right, so not sure if that's the issue you're concerned with, or if it's something else?
If you listen to an idling chain saw, leaf blower, whatever, they're kind of rough as well - until you increase the throttle setting and put a load on it. Then it's smooths out. Our gassers (all of them, not just the DLE) are the same way for the most part. In level flight (cruise), much of the time there isn't enough load on the engine to really force that even tone. Pull the nose up though, and it will smooth right out. Put the engine in a dirty airframe (WW 1 era for instance) with a big prop on it, and you'll be rid of that issue....
That rough, unsteady thing they're doing is called 4 stroking (because it's not hitting on every power stroke). The much smoother, more even thing they do under load is called 2 stroking.
1800 rpm idle is fine. You'll likely do a little better as it breaks in if you require that.
What prop are you using, and how many rpm will it turn when wide open? If you're running a 16x8 or 17x6, the 2 more common props, you should be up over 8000 rpm. Broken in, something close to sea level, maybe closer to 8500rpm. If it's doing that, I doubt there's anything wrong with the engine.
If you're trying to get a new engine running smooth in a test stand, forget it. LOTS of vibration. Same thing running one that's mounted in a fuse with no wing on it. Installing the wings will cut that rocking and rolling big time. If you're looking at the tail feathers shaking on idle like an excited puppy, that's why we suggest you add flying wires.
There's also a possibility the reed valves aren't sealing properly. If it's none of the above, that's where I would go next, especially if it's a pain to start.
-Al
If you listen to an idling chain saw, leaf blower, whatever, they're kind of rough as well - until you increase the throttle setting and put a load on it. Then it's smooths out. Our gassers (all of them, not just the DLE) are the same way for the most part. In level flight (cruise), much of the time there isn't enough load on the engine to really force that even tone. Pull the nose up though, and it will smooth right out. Put the engine in a dirty airframe (WW 1 era for instance) with a big prop on it, and you'll be rid of that issue....
That rough, unsteady thing they're doing is called 4 stroking (because it's not hitting on every power stroke). The much smoother, more even thing they do under load is called 2 stroking.
1800 rpm idle is fine. You'll likely do a little better as it breaks in if you require that.
What prop are you using, and how many rpm will it turn when wide open? If you're running a 16x8 or 17x6, the 2 more common props, you should be up over 8000 rpm. Broken in, something close to sea level, maybe closer to 8500rpm. If it's doing that, I doubt there's anything wrong with the engine.
If you're trying to get a new engine running smooth in a test stand, forget it. LOTS of vibration. Same thing running one that's mounted in a fuse with no wing on it. Installing the wings will cut that rocking and rolling big time. If you're looking at the tail feathers shaking on idle like an excited puppy, that's why we suggest you add flying wires.
There's also a possibility the reed valves aren't sealing properly. If it's none of the above, that's where I would go next, especially if it's a pain to start.
-Al
Thanks
Bob
09-10-2014, 06:59 AM
#5
Just for general info, I had an engine a few years ago give me problems in that it just would not break into a clean two cycle at full throttle. It would tune; you could make it too rich or too lean, but it would never get that clean two cycle scream. After fooling with the carb, ignition, etc. trying to trouble shoot it, I finally found a crack in the reed valve cage that wasn't allowing the reed valve to seal properly. I changed the reed valve cage, and it then ran perfectly.
AV8TOR
AV8TOR
09-10-2014, 08:42 AM
#6
Great points here. The only thing that I would add is that IMO there is no need to accept that your gas engine will at one point or another 4 stroke especially full throttle. There are way to get a very consistent mixture throughout the throttle range, it just takes some work. If you go to the thread here in the gas engine forum about throttle linearity I give a good description on what to do.
09-10-2014, 09:13 AM
#7
My Feedback: (2)
SRT,
Not going to disagree, but you're talking about somebody with a great deal of experience, willing to screw with them until it's right. Much easier for most to let it run a little fat. Starts easy, not picky regarding temps/conditions, basically a happy engine that'll last forever....
Not going to disagree, but you're talking about somebody with a great deal of experience, willing to screw with them until it's right. Much easier for most to let it run a little fat. Starts easy, not picky regarding temps/conditions, basically a happy engine that'll last forever....
09-10-2014, 11:39 AM
#9
Senior Member
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Bermuda Dunes,
CA
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Guys
I have a DLE 20 and it drove me nuts as well. I finally pulled the plug cap off and found that the ceramic plug insulator was broken. It seems that is a endemic problem with their plugs. Replaced plug and now it runs great. Also just a hint when replacing the plug cap push it on but do not hammer it on.
Good luck
Dan
I have a DLE 20 and it drove me nuts as well. I finally pulled the plug cap off and found that the ceramic plug insulator was broken. It seems that is a endemic problem with their plugs. Replaced plug and now it runs great. Also just a hint when replacing the plug cap push it on but do not hammer it on.
Good luck
Dan
09-10-2014, 04:31 PM
#11
SRT,
Not going to disagree, but you're talking about somebody with a great deal of experience, willing to screw with them until it's right. Much easier for most to let it run a little fat. Starts easy, not picky regarding temps/conditions, basically a happy engine that'll last forever....
Not going to disagree, but you're talking about somebody with a great deal of experience, willing to screw with them until it's right. Much easier for most to let it run a little fat. Starts easy, not picky regarding temps/conditions, basically a happy engine that'll last forever....
AV8TOR
Last edited by av8tor1977; 09-10-2014 at 04:43 PM.
09-10-2014, 05:13 PM
#12
This is very true. If you set it on the ragged edge of being too lean, it will make max power, but any little thing that happens to make it even a tiny bit leaner will cause it to overheat, sag, hesitate, and likely dead stick on you. Engine damage is a possiblity as well. There's an old two stroke tuners saying: "Two strokes run the very best right before they blow up on you!" (And man have I proved that one right a few times in my life!)
AV8TOR
AV8TOR
09-10-2014, 05:20 PM
#13
My Feedback: (2)
This as opposed to the slightly fat settings that result in occasional 4 stroking...
No harm either way here. Do as you like. Chart your course and go for it!
09-10-2014, 05:35 PM
#14
Actually I was just addressing AHicks comments in that particular post. However, many times people get the low end set too lean in trying to get rid of a midrange "burble", and then end up with "hanging high idles", hesitation on throttle ups, and sometimes overheating and dead sticks. Better to do as mentioned and either live with it, or use a larger prop to help get rid of it. Agressive tuning with advanced techniques can sometimes get rid of the midrange burbles, but man, wouldn't it be great if we could have a Walbro carb with a mid range adjustment screw!!!????
AV8TOR
AV8TOR
09-10-2014, 05:46 PM
#15
My Feedback: (19)
One more thought about this engine. Not sure how old it is or whether it has ever run as smooth at full throttle as expected but here is a thought. Even with a correct mixture, if the engine has the timing too far advanced, it can misfire in a very erratic manner. Some early DLE engines got out of the factory with too much advance so this might be worth checking. Here is a link that shows a common method used to check the timing. Not difficult to do and you can buy the necessary tools for $10.00 or so and they will be handy if you stay with gas engines. Also lots of info here on RCU and in other forums about checking timing. Maybe not the problem at all but if checked, this will either confirm or eliminate one other possible problem and you will learn from the experience.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBXFpxWg7vY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBXFpxWg7vY
09-10-2014, 05:48 PM
#16
To be honest I have been wondering for a few years now why we don't have a fuel injection option. It would be easy to build the processor into the ignition, it already has a map for RPM/timing. The jet guys have fuel pumps, I'm sure an injector is available. Think about being able to plug in your laptop, pad or pod and fine tune the mixture and timing curve right at the field.
09-10-2014, 05:57 PM
#17
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Jupiter,
FL
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have to agree with most of the posts here. If I get mine to run perfect one weekend, it's too lean the next. Had more then one deadstick. Now I run it a little rich where it will 4 stroke under light loads but it never deadsticks anymore. Doing that and changing to XOAR 17x6 completely turned my little PITA into a true gem.
09-10-2014, 06:02 PM
#18
I suppose it all depends on the end goal. Trying to do a really nice rolling circle while the engine is cycling between 2 and 4 cycle is almost impossible. For others that just want a nice smooth transition it can be done without any real risk. Like I said in the other thread, it's not for everyone.
09-10-2014, 07:23 PM
#19
My Feedback: (20)
I had an engine that did similar issue, idle was good and transition was good to a point where it started crapping out on high end. Take it back to idle and it was good. Was driving me nuts, I finally discovered that the little plastic clip securing the sensor lead connector going to the ignition module was not positioned correctly and the connector was loose, but was still making connection until the vibration at higher rpm started shaking it and would start cutting out and running crappy. Maybe you have already checked that connection, but might be worth a look if you haven't.
09-11-2014, 10:49 AM
#23
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Lyndonville, VT
Posts: 3,305
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Guys
I have a DLE 20 and it drove me nuts as well. I finally pulled the plug cap off and found that the ceramic plug insulator was broken. It seems that is a endemic problem with their plugs. Replaced plug and now it runs great. Also just a hint when replacing the plug cap push it on but do not hammer it on.
Good luck
Dan
I have a DLE 20 and it drove me nuts as well. I finally pulled the plug cap off and found that the ceramic plug insulator was broken. It seems that is a endemic problem with their plugs. Replaced plug and now it runs great. Also just a hint when replacing the plug cap push it on but do not hammer it on.
Good luck
Dan
If it's a "DLE" plug, then chuck it, and I don't mean in the drill press!
Pete
