slither

I have never put a dB meter on either to compare. This engine basically is made up of three Saito 1.20s, and I can say that my Saito 1.20 was a lot quieter than a 2-stoke gasser! Certainly, someone around here will get to testing this before too long, I would think...

slither

Great question! We are looking for anyone that has Ray's modifications that has had a failure, as well. I asked Ray about it, and he said no failures to date. I think he said he's done over 100 engines so far.

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

Sounds like a good theory.

The FG60 seems about half as loud as a DLE 55 in the air.

beaver1234

So how about a dle 35? Isn't a 55 much louder?

757jonp

My Feedback: (48)

I think "louder" is kinda relative to what your ear hears... 2 stroke high pitched "ring ding ding" vs a relatively low pitched triple 4 stroke "rumble". They might be both be at the same db level, but that 4 stroke is always going to sound "better", at least to my ear. A good quality muffler will help a 2 stroke quite bit, but still hard to get that "ring dinging" out of it.

DHC6

My Feedback: (6)

My FG84 was nearly silent compared to my dle 55. My 55 would echo for miles around our field. The 84 just perrrrrrs along with that wonderful radial rumble.

SWORDSN

My Feedback: (13)

I have 35s and 55s and I can,t tell much difference in noise level.

Fly2XS

My Feedback: (65)

Using a 2 stroke is cheaper and works well as long as you don't mind sounding like a chainsaw or a leaf blower.
Using a 4 stroke radial is music to the ears and helps keep your neighbors happy. Keep your flying fields! Fly Radials!

Fly2XS

My Feedback: (65)

duplicated

beaver1234

Yeah I would have to agree. Sound is nice. Cost wise, 2 stroke is much better. Wonder if I would have any issues running the engine well baffled without any of Ray's mods 20:1 cool power.

SWORDSN

My Feedback: (13)

There are several examples of baffled engines,that have cracked cylinders,in this thread but I don't think there is a report about Cool Power oil.

Anyone?

CRG

My Feedback: (3)

Horizon does not recommend Cool Power oil. Use Red Line or Power Model, at no less than 20:1.

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

Where do they say that?

The Saito FG60 manual specifically list Morgan Cool Power "Blue" Synthetic Oil as an example of an acceptable oil. It says use a "reliable oil for 2 stroke engines" and list Cool Power, Klotz KL-200, and etc.

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

RE says only use the Cool Blue Oil at 15:1 for break in.
I have enough money invested in this engine, I will defer to the guy who I paid to modify my engine so that it would be a reliable running engine.
Suggestions by those who "don't have a dog in the fight" might best be withheld.
RE told me he has done the warentee work for Horizon on these engines.
Sparky

TomH

My Feedback: (4)

+1 to that RE did mine as well.

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

I have yet to run my engine yet but typically with all the other engines I have run there is some spitting from the Carb. Raw fuel in small droplets gets expelled from the carb, most of it is re ingested back into the engine. It happens at various phases of engine operation. Solutions for this include a Velocity stack and or a air filter to minimize exposing the inside of the plane to this stuff. I have looked on several websites even Japan R/C to see if there is an accessory offered that I can use this for this.
Any thoughts?
Sparky

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

With the amount of oil coming from the crankcase vent you won't notice anything from the carb. I don't think much at all gets spit back out the carb. That would be typical for a 2 stroke engine but not so much for a four stroke.

slither

Do you run a drain tube out the bottom to direct it away from the air frame?

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

Definitely

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

I ran about a qt of fuel through the engine yesterday.
On a 22x10 it didn't like 4000 RPM but 5100 seemed to be a happy spot. Given that RE ran the engine first I'm guessing that it is on the road to being broken in.
When it warms to over 60 Ill run another Qt through the engine.
The Morgan lube that I thought was Blue turns out it is Green. It comes in an opaque container so that's why I didn't notice until now.
I guess the little black specks of oil over stuff is coming from the breather , Ill put a tube on it to keep the engine cleaner.
Just putting my fingers on the head after running I would say that the #1 cly is running the hottest.
I'm going to put a 24x10 OXoar prop on it to keep the RPM down at full throttle for the break in.
I used an electric starter and it starts right up anyone hand flipping this thing?
Sparky

TomH

My Feedback: (4)

I have used my starter as well, Ray says not to, so I will try to flip start this spring, I read where it flip starts easy so I want to see if it is true.

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

Tom,
From a safety point of view I see no reason not to use a starter. I think RE concern is that you might Hydro lock the motor and bend something in the engine. If you flip the prop over at least two revolutions by hand you have verified you don't have a cly loaded with fuel and can hydro lock the engine.
I have had hydro locked 2 stoke engines and I have never bent anything with the starter but there is always a first time.
I read some where that on a 4 stroke engine if you are hydro locked turn the engine over backwards this opens the exhaust valve and allows the fluid to exit via the exhaust port.
Sparky

kwik

Regarding using a starter;

I was in a hurry once, and forgot to turn the propeller by hand a few rounds first. So, it probably had some oil from the cranckcase in the lower cylinder.

And I had just bought a tremendously strong starter. It can start a 120 cc Valach ( !).

So, I just pressed the new big strong starter towards the spinner, and pushed the button. I heard two distingtive bangs from the engine, and that was it;

The cylinder lugs holding the cylinder-housings in place broke on one cylinder; The one pointing downwards.

I have started the FG-60, the FG-84, the FG-57 and others using a starter many, many times. But I was then using a weaker starter,
and most of the times remembered tu turn the propeller first. And those times I forgot, the starter didnt manage to turn the propeller........

So, it was a lesson burned into my spine now..... Turn the propeller first.

When these engines has been stored for a while, they can somethimes be incredibly difficult to start by hand.

And you might have to move the throttle up and down, to find the sweet spot (Which most of the time is just above zero throttle. Too much, or too little, and they wont start even using a starter....

And then , when you finally get them going (using a starter), they will then be easy to start by hand the rest of the day......

luckymacy

I have used a starter on mine 99% of the time (actually, I can't think if a single time I didn't use a starter but I'll throw in 1% for doubt). My starter is not a mega Godzilla sized starter and a 60cc two stroke is at the upper limit of what it can barely adequately turn over but it handles the individually 20CC cylinders on the Saito perfectly fine. I don't think regular use of a starter cautiously is going to cause any harm or accelerate an issue or I'd likely have found out by now. I'm personally suspicious of the consistent quality/treatment of the metal used, the dimensions, radiuses and the like in the highest stressed areas more than anything else.

I think you either got lucky and got an engine barely but sufficiently built and it's never going to fail by cracking a cylinder as some have or instead you have one that has some component that doesn't quite meet the minimum strength needed for the overall realistic upper bounds of the operating range and no matter what you do it's going to fail eventually. They didn't design in any robustness.

PCT

My Feedback: (3)

The 60R3 hand starts with ease. Try it for yourself.