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ATT. Gas engine Gurus OS Max GGT10 CC or 15 CC

Old 07-22-2015, 11:03 AM
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Bcolici
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Default ATT. Gas engine Gurus which gas engine 10 or 15cc for the job ,need not be os.

Looking for a powerplant for a new plane and im undecided to go with the 10 or 15cc ggt
The plane is the G.P. Chapman 580 Eagle 46 81. Wanted it and got it for a great price.
All up weight at 6.10 lbs with this engine http://www.osengines.com/engines-air...982/index.html and a 14x4 wide apc prop was reported to have very good power. I can get it lighter and would like to do so with using the 10cc instead of the 15 and some other components.
I'm just not sure how comparable the 10cc is to the fs 81. Listed horsepower the ggt 10 is a bit more than the fs 81
I like the power of the ggt 15cc but its a little heavier than i'd like.

The plane will be flown with a mix of aerobatic and some mild 3d.
T.I.A. for some help for a newbie to gasser engines.

Last edited by Bcolici; 07-24-2015 at 01:37 PM.
Old 07-22-2015, 11:35 AM
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ahicks
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Flying a 10cc Evo gasser in a similar size, weight and power plane (.46 Phoenix Extra). Good sport performance, but not close to 3D.

The 15cc engine weighs nearly what a DLE 20 weighs (all up), so even if you did have more power than the 10cc plane, the wing loading would be well into what the military guys are flying. Basically something you need to be pretty careful with at lower speeds - snap happy.

The 10 is the way better plan for most flyers IMHO. Be interested in your impressions when you get it together. Please keep us posted! -Al
Old 07-22-2015, 04:01 PM
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I would go with the 10cc engine. It weighs less and develops good power. It should fly the plane just fine. The 15cc would wind up be pretty heavy, maybe too heavy.
Old 07-22-2015, 04:45 PM
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Get both ! I would ! Cheers the pope
Old 07-22-2015, 06:57 PM
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Thanks for the advice.
I was thinking the same going with the 10.
I was also thinking if the muffler on the 15 could shed a few oz. It wouldn't be to much of a weight penalty with the 15.
I know Jtech makes one just have to find out what is weighs and if its worth going that route.

Pope, i may have to get both when funds are available(just finishing up my first 20cc gasser) depending on how these glow gassers run.
There's not much feedback yet as they are fairly new.
It'll be a bit before i get started on this one. Hopefully by then there will be some more reviews.
Then there's the rcg 10 with ignition too.
Old 07-22-2015, 08:20 PM
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I do not see much difference in the choice of engine volume 10cc.
I is the second model in the photo is used with engine 10cc.

The first was Evo10.
Two days ago I flew model RCGF-10.
Both times the weight of the model will receive 2700 grams.
Both times I had the engine power for 3D flight.
Wingspan 1540mm models.
But in this model, I do not see options to set the 15cc engine.
The reason - the weight of the model will be more.
And this model gives its excellent performance with low weight.
Engine selection from the family of 10cc?
I got almost the same power with NGH-9, Evo-10 and now RCGF-10.
But there is a big difference in the ease of tuning the engine among these brands.
I have no O.S.-10.
From what I have a, I like RCGF-10.
But it has two drawbacks.
One I voiced - http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/gas-...cc-engine.html
Second - hard to pump fuel into the carburetor for the first time.
There is no carburetor choke.
Therefore, to release the air from the chamber of the pressure regulator has to close or finger, or press the membrane through the hole of the lid.
This should be done only once before the flight.
Subsequent launches take place with two turns without this procedure.
This is the only moment RCGF-10.
Perhaps the power of the engine still rises.
Because if it counted the amount of the correct standard - this engine has a volume of 12cc.
But you choose.
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Old 07-22-2015, 08:45 PM
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Thanks Evgeny-arm.
Perhaps some video of it flying with the rcgf 10 if possible. I've read that the os engines dont vibrate as much as the other brands.
Of course there will be some with any engine but the less the better.
My plane is going to be a little heavier than yours. I knew this before hand though,with the right setup i want to try and keep it as light as possible.
Another issue to think about is cg. If i need the extra weight up front to balance.
Old 07-22-2015, 10:21 PM
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Video - is a matter of chance.
If there is someone with a camera when I fly on the model.
If there is such an opportunity, I certainly share.
But the most pleasant option at the moment I can see only two engines - OS and RCGF-10cc.
Both engines are still new (warmer) and may have surprises.
But the most important thing in the engine - to function reliably in flight.
And I see in these two right approach to the specifics of gasoline engines.
Great weight of the model you have.
Try to see the potential weight savings.
For example very well give the economy the two servo -
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXEWSE&P=SM
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXEWSF&P=SM

They are very lightweight and powerful for its size.
And applying 2C LiPO 800 -1000mA you can significantly reduce the weight of the model.
And most importantly, they cost very good for its characteristics.

Last edited by Evgeny-arm; 07-22-2015 at 10:26 PM.
Old 07-23-2015, 09:51 AM
  #9  
mattnew
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so, we have the eagle 580 flying using an evolution 10GX motor... which is a 10cc gasser
the engine runs great, no issues starting or running it ever
the plane is an awesome plane to fly. It won't 3D with that motor but it makes a great tumbling plane which is what the cap excels at.


I wouldn't do it again... in this size plane, the weight of the motor + accessories is more critical than the power output of the motor. The gas motors are heavier than their nitro counterparts, and put out less power. Yes you get longer flights and save $$... but a .60 sized nitro isn't exactly a thirsty engine and you'd be happier with the performance and overall weight.

For me it is a lesson learned. I had decided that when I got back into the hobby I was going all Gas... no nitro or electric... the big gassers have been great for me, the smaller ones seem to work well in terms of running and reliability, but the weight is tough on the smaller planes
Old 07-23-2015, 10:10 AM
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ahicks
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Bcolici - address your balance issues while building! Install your elevator and rudder servos, as well as battery, receiver, etc. to achieve proper balance. You know weight is critical going into it. Installing those servos in the tail or mid ship (or one of each!) can make all the difference you may need - without adding weight.

I've built 3 this size now, and none have required weight.
Old 07-23-2015, 05:53 PM
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Mattnew whats the weight of your Eagle 580 fueled and ready to go?
Btw i loves me a tumbling machine.. Thanks for that bit of info.

Also for this size gasser are the standard size servos needed? I was thinking more like a mid size to shed some weight or low profile
The ones posted by evgeny arm are smaller than i was planning on using . Not knowing how much smoother these smaller os gassers are im a bit concerned going to a 28 gram servo.

My battery of choice will be a life 2s pack..

Ahicks my thoughts as well on placing equipment where they need to be to balance. But sometimes it may need more. I usually use a larger mah pack or a heavier motor,depending on how much weight is needed. I hate adding dead weight or any extra weight at all.
I'll be sure to have it on my cg balancer when installing the equipment.
I could probably shed a couple of oz tossing the stock fuel tank and going with a 8 oz fiji bottle. =)

Perhaps Mattnew can give some info as far as how this plane balances. Thanks for the help Gents.

My best bet is probably to get it all ready to go minus the engine and see what i could use.

Last edited by Bcolici; 07-23-2015 at 06:12 PM.
Old 07-23-2015, 05:59 PM
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I'm following a thread on another site on the ggt 10.
Hopefully they'll be some more info on performance.
One owner claims over 11k rpm on a 13x6 prop with a couple of tanks thru it.
Old 07-23-2015, 09:37 PM
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I have no complaints about this servo.
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Old 07-23-2015, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Bcolici
One owner claims over 11k rpm on a 13x6 prop with a couple of tanks thru it.
Propellers different in their execution.
So I see nothing surprising in the declared data.
Old 07-23-2015, 09:54 PM
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Bcolici
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Originally Posted by Evgeny-arm
I have no complaints about this servo.
Thanks,but how much time does it have on it?
Are all the gears metal?
What servo arm fits on the spline?
And does it return to center well?
Are they smooth operating?

Sorry I'm not familiar with Graupner servos.
If it holds up well it culd be a good option. Light weight and not too expensive.
Im liking the 2nd one linked. Does that = 90 in oz of torque??

In Futaba I trust. Lol

Last edited by Bcolici; 07-23-2015 at 10:17 PM.
Old 07-23-2015, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Evgeny-arm
Propellers different in their execution.
So I see nothing surprising in the declared data.
Exactly could be possible to use up to a 14 inch prop. on this engine
Old 07-23-2015, 10:40 PM
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Bcolici
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Ok, I'm going to add two more into the mix.
Both the rcgf 10 and 15cc.
Could anyone confirm the weight of these?
Old 07-23-2015, 10:59 PM
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I have used them about 1 hour flight.
On such a shoulder, there is slight backlash.
I is one of 930 on each half of the elevator.
One servo burned on the throttle.
When has jammed throttle.
Exactly could be possible to use up to a 14 inch prop. on this engine
Yesterday I flew screw 13x4 and 14x6.
In the coming days I will experiment with APC 15x4W and another unidentified wooden propeller 15x6
I came to the conclusion that a good 3D on such propellers is impossible.
Very high speed.
And at low speed is not confident in a vertical position.
On the screw 14x6 and motor and carburetor work better.
And the flight model I liked more.
But the Chinese screw No name more in step than it said (14x8).
I would like to experience a flight on APC14x4W.
But I do not have it in stock.
But most likely I will be doing their screws.
For me it is not difficult.

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Old 07-24-2015, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Bcolici
Mattnew whats the weight of your Eagle 580 fueled and ready to go?
Btw i loves me a tumbling machine.. Thanks for that bit of info.

Also for this size gasser are the standard size servos needed? I was thinking more like a mid size to shed some weight or low profile
The ones posted by evgeny arm are smaller than i was planning on using . Not knowing how much smoother these smaller os gassers are im a bit concerned going to a 28 gram servo.

My battery of choice will be a life 2s pack..

Ahicks my thoughts as well on placing equipment where they need to be to balance. But sometimes it may need more. I usually use a larger mah pack or a heavier motor,depending on how much weight is needed. I hate adding dead weight or any extra weight at all.
I'll be sure to have it on my cg balancer when installing the equipment.
I could probably shed a couple of oz tossing the stock fuel tank and going with a 8 oz fiji bottle. =)

Perhaps Mattnew can give some info as far as how this plane balances. Thanks for the help Gents.

My best bet is probably to get it all ready to go minus the engine and see what i could use.

with the 10GX it was roughly around or just under 7lbs. We were able to install the servos in the stock locations and balance using the battery packs.

You do need standard sized servos, probably in the 60-80 oz/in range. There are some big surfaces on this model, and its a big plane even though they describe it as a .40 sized plane... I have a .40 sized cap 21 and this plane is huge compared to that... per their recommendations:
[h=3]Product Recommendations[/h]Please note: all recommendations were the best choices available at the time of product release. Please check with your hobby dealer for additional choices. For a complete list of required items, consult the instruction manual.
FUTL7627 Futaba® R617FS 7-Channel 2.4GHz FASST™ Receiver
FUTM0004 Futaba S3004 Standard Ball Bearing Servo (3 for glow, 2 for electric)
FUTM0222 Futaba S9252 High-Torque Digital Servo (2)
OSMG0548 O.S. Engine® 46AXII ABL Engine
OSMG0877 O.S. 72FS-a 4-Stroke Engine
OSMG0956 O.S. 56FS-a 4-Stroke Engine
OSMG0981 O.S. 81FS-a 4-Stroke Engine





The 10cc is roughly equivalent powerwise to the o.s. 46 2 stroke glow ......except it weighs more. just something to think about... but picking the 10cc motor is picking their smallest recommendation in a heavier case...

with the 10cc gas motor you'll get about a 100-150 feet of vertical from level flight. I'd describe it as scale-like, but I do wish it had more oomph.
Old 07-24-2015, 05:59 AM
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btw... I talked my brother into getting the 10cc for his eagle 580.... after I had one in my rv-4 and corsair and was so happy with it.

the plane is incredible.... lightening fast rolls... blinding snap rolls and lomcevaks...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihLSBClAPfU at 1:03 where he flips the plane over.. is flying backwards, then stops and starts flying forward again.... you can do that with this plane...

it just needs more power than the 10cc can provide.... if I was to do it again, at a minimum the 15cc gasser.. but more likely nitro in an o.s. 75 size.
Old 07-24-2015, 08:41 AM
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Re: weight on 15cc RCGF - same story. About the same as a DLE 20
Old 07-24-2015, 10:50 AM
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Bcolici
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Thanks mattnew.
I enjoyed the vid as well.
Really want to keep it all gas. And a couple of small electrics

Last edited by Bcolici; 07-24-2015 at 10:56 AM.
Old 07-24-2015, 10:51 AM
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Lol ,ahicks somehow i knew that was coming.

Maybe DLE needs their own version af a 15cc.

Last edited by Bcolici; 07-24-2015 at 10:54 AM.
Old 07-24-2015, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Bcolici
Thanks mattnew.
I enjoyed the vid as well.
Really want to keep it all gas. And a couple of small electrics

I'm there with you. I was away from the hobby for 5 years when I came back I saw these 10cc and 15cc gassers and made the same decision... no nitro! I have the 10cc 15cc 22cc 33cc and 55cc gasser engines for all my planes... the 22cc, 33cc, and 55cc gassers run awesome and are perfect for the planes they are in...

10cc and 15cc engines run great as well....


I hear what your saying.....I wanted the same....
but...
OS 46 AXII COST $150
Output: 1.63 hp @ 16,000 rpm
Weight w/Muffler: 17.1 oz (486 g)


OS GGT10 COST $319.00
Output: 1.58 hp @ 10,000 rpm
Total Weight: 19.8 oz (561 g)

heavier, less power, twice the cost.... the os 46 is the minimum recommended engine for the plane...so.... Just telling you my already lived experience...It doesn't make sense looking back on it now....
Old 07-24-2015, 12:34 PM
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I hear what you're saying. Thasts why i threw the rcgf 10 in the mix.
My concern is how well it's made and how much the power claim is inflated.


Specifications:
Ignition :
DC-CDI (Computer Controlled auto advance, electronic ignition system)
Power supply: 4.8-8.4V
Maximum Output : 1.9 hp/1.4KW
Requires: Gasoline, 2-cycle oil, ignition battery & propeller
Speed range : 1800-12000rpm
Propeller : 13X7 9800 rpm; 14X6 9000rpm (Standard Two Blade prop)
recommended props :13X6, 14 X6,13X8,13X7.
Sparking plug: 1/4X32 .
RCGF engine package Includes: electronic CDI ignition, muffler, spark plug, gaskets, bolts, throttle arm extension & manual


Weight :
Engine:
0.93 lb (420 g)
Muffler: 1.4 oz (40g)
Ignition Module: 4.1 oz (115 g)
Total: Weight: 1.26 lb (570 g)

Technical Data:Ignition Battery: 4.8-8.4 NiCd or NiMH, 6.6V LiFe or 2S LiPo pack
Gasoline/Oil Mix: 30:1
Replacement Spark Plug: NGK CM6 or equivalent
Idle Speed: 1800 rpm/min


Evo 10GX

[TABLE="class: specs, width: 67%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: spec_name"]Benchmark Prop:[/TD]
[TD="class: spec_value"]EVO 12 x 6 @ 11,100 rpm[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: spec_name"]Bore:[/TD]
[TD="class: spec_value"]0.94 in (24mm)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: spec_name"]Crankshaft Threads:[/TD]
[TD="class: spec_value"]1/4-28[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: spec_name"]Cylinder Type:[/TD]
[TD="class: spec_value"]ABC[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: spec_name"]Cylinders:[/TD]
[TD="class: spec_value"]Single[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: spec_name"]Displacement:[/TD]
[TD="class: spec_value"]0.59 cu. in. (9.83 cc)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: spec_name"]Engine (Only) Weight:[/TD]
[TD="class: spec_value"]15.3 oz (436 g)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: spec_name"]Fuel:[/TD]
[TD="class: spec_value"]Gasoline 87-92 octane[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: spec_name"]Fuel Type:[/TD]
[TD="class: spec_value"]Gas[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: spec_name"]HP:[/TD]
[TD="class: spec_value"]1.68 hp (1.7 PS) @ 16,400 rpm[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: spec_name"]Ignition Weight:[/TD]
[TD="class: spec_value"]3.40 oz (98 g)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: spec_name"]Muffler Type:[/TD]
[TD="class: spec_value"]Expansion Chamber (included)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: spec_name"]Muffler Weight:[/TD]
[TD="class: spec_value"]3.25 oz (93 g)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: spec_name"]Oil Type & Content:[/TD]
[TD="class: spec_value"]2-stroke oil, 20:1 gas/oil ratio[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: spec_name"]Plug Type:[/TD]
[TD="class: spec_value"]1/4-32 EVO spark plug[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: spec_name"]Prop Range:[/TD]
[TD="class: spec_value"]10 x 6 - 13 x 8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: spec_name"]RPM Range:[/TD]
[TD="class: spec_value"]2,300 - 18,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: spec_name"]Stroke:[/TD]
[TD="class: spec_value"]0.85 in (21.5mm)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: spec_name"]Total Weight:[/TD]
[TD="class: spec_value"]22.0 oz (627 g)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
My next question,
Theoretically which engine would produce the most power/torque out of all the 10 cc engines on a 14 inch prop
Going bye all these rpm figures?[TABLE="class: specs, width: 67%"]
[/TABLE]

Last edited by Bcolici; 07-24-2015 at 02:03 PM.

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