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GN2 Oil - Ashless?

Old 08-23-2006, 02:07 PM
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aegis
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Default GN2 Oil - Ashless?

I'm having a hard time finding 2-stroke ashless oil to break in my 3W. A local motorcycle shop thinks Honda's GN2 2-stroke oil is ashless. I've called different shops that carry the oil but they don't know for sure. I've also tried looking on Honda's Web sites but am not finding an answer. Does anybody know if it's ashless or not?

Thanks.

Dan
Old 08-23-2006, 07:06 PM
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rc bugman
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Default RE: GN2 Oil - Ashless?

Try penzoil air cooled oil or any quality non-synthetic 2 stroke oil for your break-in. Mix at 32:1 or 40:1.

Elson
Old 08-23-2006, 08:06 PM
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aegis
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Default RE: GN2 Oil - Ashless?

Try penzoil air cooled oil or any quality non-synthetic 2 stroke oil for your break-in. Mix at 32:1 or 40:1
Thanks for the suggestion, Elson. A couple days ago I picked up some of the Pennzoil for air cooled engines, but according to a reply from Pennzoil it isn't ashless; they said it's "low ash." I'm assuming that's the same as other oil that I've seen that is labeled as semi-synthetic. I've tried different motorcycle shops, lawn mower repair shops, racing go-kart shops, chainsaw repair shops, Home Depot, and Lowes. Several have said they have it but then when I get there it says synthetic right on the bottle. I heard that Shindaiwa might be ashless but haven't received a reply yet from the company; local distributors don't know if it's synthetic or not. I might just have to use the Pennzoil and have it take longer for the break-in.

Dan
Old 08-23-2006, 08:34 PM
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Default RE: GN2 Oil - Ashless?

Ashless is the wrong oil for air cooled engines. Ashless oils were designed for constant rpm water cooled boat motors. Use nearly any low-ash petroleum oil made for air-cooled two strokes. Penzoil, Quaker State...etc.
Old 08-23-2006, 09:32 PM
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aegis
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Default RE: GN2 Oil - Ashless?

Ashless is the wrong oil for air cooled engines.
If that's the case, I'm not sure why the following is stated in the "TIPS" sheet I received with the motor - "For break-in of your 3W engine we recommend using Lawnboy or Ryobi ashless oil 40:1. This will help your engine break-in much faster. If using synthetic oil, break-in could take up to 15 hours! Again, recommended mix ratio is 40:1. Run approximately 2 or 3 gallons. Then you will change to 100% synthetic oil." What are your thoughts? (This isn't meant to be a scarcastic question; just wondering)

Dan
Old 08-23-2006, 11:13 PM
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Default RE: GN2 Oil - Ashless?

That same tip sheet also tells you that you can use their brand name synthetic at ratios up to 80-1. You can, but only if you want a short lived engine, even at 50-1. Run the Pennzoil and be happy.
Old 08-23-2006, 11:24 PM
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Default RE: GN2 Oil - Ashless?

Its too bad they gave a brand name instead of a specification. The only oil that is truly ashless is TCW-3. Just find a cheap JASO oil and use it forever. These engines are low performance, operate in very dusty environments, and never accumulate many hours before they are destroyed, why get picky about oil.
Old 08-24-2006, 01:10 AM
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Default RE: GN2 Oil - Ashless?

That same tip sheet also tells you that you can use their brand name synthetic at ratios up to 80-1. You can, but only if you want a short lived engine, even at 50-1.
Must be they (Cactus Aviation) is sending out a different TIPS sheet now, Pat. [8D] The info I was sent recommends Bel Ray MC-1 at 50:1 after break-in. Regarding the ratio after break-in, do you not agree with 50:1 in general or just with their brandname synthetic? Do you suggest staying at 40:1 no matter which synthetic is used?

These engines are low performance, operate in very dusty environments, and never accumulate many hours before they are destroyed, why get picky about oil.
This is my first gas set up so I'm trying to go by the book on everything in the hope of negating potential problems due to my lack of experience with gassers. If I can find the oil that's recommended by Cactus, why not use it? If not, it sounds like the Pennzoil I have is the way to go.

Dan
Old 08-24-2006, 08:47 PM
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Default RE: GN2 Oil - Ashless?

It seems we forget what the original question was, what ashless oil to use for BREAKING-IN. Not what oil to use AFTER breaking-in. Oil such as Lawnboy ashless oil or Ryobi ashless oil at 40:1 is what is suggested by 3W. Lawnboy ashless oil can be had at Wal-Mart or other discount stores and lawn-mower shops.
For us newbie’s, it is very frustrating when we cannot stay track with the original questions.
SORRY, just my two cents worth.
Old 08-24-2006, 08:56 PM
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Default RE: GN2 Oil - Ashless?

Was in a lawnmower repair shop and noticed they sell Lawnboy ashless. Problem solved.

Dan
Old 10-08-2011, 05:40 AM
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Default RE: GN2 Oil - Ashless?

Ashless oils are the wrong oils for air-cooled motors during break-in or any other time, despite what 3W or DA advise. What is meant by an ashless oil? It means the oil won't produce an ash in a specific test when the oil is burned in the laboratory. The ash is a byproduct of the type of detergent package in the oil. The ashless oil detergent package keeps the plug from whiskering when a boat motor is used at constant speed. It is not a high-temperature detergent package, it is a low temperature compatible detergent for water-cooled engines only. Low-ash oils contain a different detergent package designed for high-temperature running in air-cooled motors - that detergent leaves a little more ash in the laboratory combustion test. Our air-cooled engines operate at higher temperatures than water-cooled motors, and do not operate at a constant rpm where plug whiskering might be a problem. Somewhere, some how, DA and 3W started the nonsense with the ashless oil recommendation, and it propagated like folklore. Recently, DA retracted their recommendation for ashless oils.
Old 10-08-2011, 08:23 AM
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Default RE: GN2 Oil - Ashless?

I've been re-visiting oil ratings and classifications of late. None of the TCW-2 or 3 rated oils are what we want or need for air cooled engines. The Japanese recognized this some time back and performed a lot of in depth testing and came up with their own rating system. JASO rated oils are much better for our purposes.

"Ashless" oils are generally not good for air cooled engines, creating and leaving a lot of carbon inside the engines. As for why a hobby engine manker might suggest such oils, consider that only the large engine manufacturers are prone to performing oil testing. The rest simply read a few engineering spec sheets and go form there. Few, if any, model engine manufacturers perform any in depth oil testing. They don't have the budget for it.

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