Waggs

Still no luck starting.

Had a high torque starter and plenty of battery, but no luck. Go weak pops, and faint "I want to runs", but nothing solid.

Observation - When on the starter, fuel would spray OUT of the carb.

Things tried: using (5 Cell) NiCad Ig battery instead of (4 cell) NiMh. No change.

In reviewing "timing" a DA 50 here:
http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/f...50-timing.html

it seams that the magnet should be within a few degrees of the sensor at TDC.

Attached is a blurry photo of my engine AT TDC (as determined by using a dowel in the plug hole)

The red line indicates the magnet position, and this is AFTER the sensor (at TDC).

Does this look right for this engine?

Thanks.

RC Extreme power

My Feedback: (24)

I have not read all your post about the engine not starting but have you tried just changing the spark plug, I had one engine that after three flight would not crank and could get spark with plug out, Changed to new plug and it fired right up.

Milton

JoeAirPort

My Feedback: (41)

You should call Scott at Brillelli.

Jake Ruddy

My Feedback: (40)

Waggs did you have a prop strike?

That's not the correct position.

Waggs

That is the way it arrived from Brillelli. The engine has not flown yet because I cannot get it started.

What is the correct position?

Jake Ruddy

My Feedback: (40)

The spark fires after the magnet leaves the sensor... depending on whether or not you are truely at TDC that looks a bit far to me.

The problem is I am pretty sure the hub has sleeve retainer on it so you can't move it without a lot of heat. It's probably best if it goes back to him to get fixed should the timing be wrong . DOes it back fire or anything like that?

I would look here and print off the degree wheel and check your timing http://www.ch-ignitions.com/CHinst.html

soarrich

My Feedback: (98)

Yes, that looks good. Think about itif you move it so the magnet is just leaving the sensor, that's BTC. some info by Pe on the ignition:

About the RCexcl ignition:

below 500 rpm, the ignition does not retard! So flip the prop slowly, and she will bite.

above 800 rpm, the ignition retards a full 21 degrees.

at 1500 rpm, the retardation is lessened up to ~3500, when retard is nil again.

A very nice range that allows excellent throttle response without any power jumps or surges.
up to 8500 rpm, the ignition fires as set by the pickup!
above 8500, there seemed to be a very slight retard again, catering for the higher squish velocities encountered in the combustion chamber.

Waggs

The engine that I have uses two set screws to keep the ring that holds the magnet in place. I have rotated the magnet from stock position to TDC with little effect. The only noticeable excitement was when I had the spark firing in the 11-11:30 position. At this point I had backfire out the carb, and that was about it.

Question: what should the gap be between the sensor and the magnet?

Observation 1: Fuel spraying OUT of the carb when turning with starter.
Observation 2: When propping counter clockwise, there is STRONG suction in the exhaust pipe.
Observation 3: Compression appears to be stronger when propping clockwise.


Thanks.

Jake Ruddy

My Feedback: (40)

The magnet is not suppose to be at TDC.

In my post above half way down the page on the ch site is how to time the engine. It should be set to 28 BTDC.

The gap should be around 1/16" - 1/8"

The Big Kahuna

Hi Waggs, you seem to have issues with a lot of minor problems which tell us all that you have a lot of faith, will, and ambition but little knowledge. May I suggest you do 1 of the following:
1.. Send it back to Scott requesting he gets it right for you.
2.. Find your local small engine man (lawn mower repairer ect) he will spot the problem quickly.
I was in a similar situation some years ago and the local guy got me on track ASAP

JoeAirPort

My Feedback: (41)

Not sure if those set screws are the same for all engines but my 2nd set screw hole (the one the right of your picture) lines up to 9:00 right before the compression starts . When I feel compression that set screw hole is at about 8:00 (that's where I line my prop up for flipping, see 2nd picture). Not sure if this helps. Let me know if you need more pictures.

Antique

My Feedback: (4)

Timing (28 degrees BTDC) for ANY gasser with adjustable sensor...For engines using C&H or RC EXL ignition ONLY, Falkon is different, old 3W and all DA can't be done this way...New 3W with two magnets...Set the piston on TDC, the edge of the sensor mount should bisect the magnet under it....
Take the spark plug out of the cylinder for easier rotating...
Don't put the spark plug in the cap, it's easier to hear the spark without it..
Measure the diameter of the rotating part of the hub, with the setscrew in it..Multiply by .244, write it down...
Turn ignition on, slowly rotate the crank CCW..You will hear a spark...Make a pencil mark at on the rotating part of the hub, and another exactly across from it on the case...
Put the piston on TDC...Measure the distance between the two marks. It should be the same as the number you just wrote down...Rotate the ring until it is...
Done...Takes about 5 minutes if you're slow....

airlyons

Hey guys, what's everyone's opinion on the optimal rpm for propping and torque purposes?

I'm planning on a babulla 22-8 for break-in and then going to an MSC 23-8. That being said Im wondering what a 24-8 would be like? The evolution 58 apparently likes it around 6300. So where does the 366gt like it?

I haven't decided what kind of flying I'll be doing yet. I have the lanier edge 540 87". So it depends on how the airplane flies. I will say that I like having a 23-8 jxf on my da50. Even though the rpm is only at 6600 - to 6700 the down line braking is awesome with my yak 54.

Any thoughts on a 24-8 with the 366gt? Just a little board/impatient waiting to get my engine back so I thought I'd pose the question.

Thanks in advance,

Chris

soarrich

My Feedback: (98)

Mine loves the Xoar 23A, I think it was taching about 6600 on the ground. The 22A Vess is very loud and seems under propped on my WH 87" Sukhoi.

StPeteFlyer

What kind of temp readings are you guys getting on the head of the engine right after landing? I temped mine yesterday using a temp gun and got about 245, and didn't know it that was too hot or not. Thanks

AirWizard

My Feedback: (3)

Rich......is Xoar making a new prop 23A ?

JoeAirPort

My Feedback: (41)

lol...I like the Menz 22A.

soarrich

My Feedback: (98)

I don't know if it's new or not but they make one, and my 366GT loves it.

http://www.3dhobbyshop.com/detail.as...2342&Source=fr

Jake Ruddy

My Feedback: (40)

Mine turns a Mejzlik 23x8 right around 6950 Hot after a flight all day long. Vess 23A should be around 7400 or so.


As for the 24" Prop.. Scott doesnt really like to run them like that. Will they do it? Sure all day long.. but you are loosing spool up time. On a 22x8 running around 7500 my 18.5 plane is faster, pulls out of hover way quicker and doesn't slow down as much on upline snaps or opposite point rolls.. downline breaking with the 22x8 Mejlik was not as nice though.

AirWizard

My Feedback: (3)

Thanks Rich........I'll have to try one......we don't see the new stuff in Oz

LordSirOb

The noise police nabbed me, and I would like to go with a header/canister setup on my B60. Is anyone using a KS 86 on their B60? Or the MTW TD75? As I understand it, a DA 50 header works, but you need to do some filing on the bolt holes. Is that correct?

Thanks in advance.

Ken

soarrich

My Feedback: (98)

I used a TBM DA50 header, I just drilled the holes bigger worked great. I used a REFA made for a 3W engine, looks a lot like my MTW TD75, but it has a flatter end on it. I find if another gas engine is running I can't hear my motor, I'm the only one at my field that uses canisters.

mistydee0

My Feedback: (103)

Ken, We have a header/canaster set up that will work for you $149.00+$10.00 shipping.

Larry, LS PRO ENGINES
[email protected]

Jake Ruddy

My Feedback: (40)

I ran a KS 1060 on mine for a bit (6 flights before a system failure and bent the pipe) Throttle response was amazing.. I didn't get time to play with header length though to see what kind of power I can get out of it. I have heard numbers around 7550 with a Mejzlik 23x8 on a ES comp pipe (the older 50cc one).

Yes any DA header will work.. just have to slightly enlarge the holes.

Waggs

I believe I have uncovered the cause of my starting woes.

With everything that I have tried, I was still bothered by one factor. When propping the engine, watching the piston near TDC, and watching the magnet pass the sensor, I could not get ANY kind of sensation from the engine (I did have a firm grasp on the prop). Even after squirting gas in the carb and/or exhaust port I got absolutely no kick what so ever. So I began to wonder if the piston ring was tapered and installed incorrectly, and that wonderment lead to my uncovering a stuck piston ring.

I used an exacto knife between the piston and ring in an attempt to remove the ring in one piece but the ring had other ideas. The small piece required some careful picking to be removed it was that stuck. Not sure where the crud came from. Keep in mind that this engine has not run in my presence.

The ring photo has been has been enhanced to show the deposit on the ring.

This explains quite a few symptoms:

1) Comments by more knowledgeable club members about compression
2) No kick on compression stroke
3) The wheezing of the engine when propping
4) Weak to no fuel draw
5) And obviously no start

So, the question now becomes, does anybody have a part number to replace this? Or even a make/model number for the cyl/piston assembly?


Thanks.