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DA50 - Hard to Start, Idle Unreliable

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DA50 - Hard to Start, Idle Unreliable

Old 12-08-2006, 11:54 PM
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zope_pope
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Default RE: DA50 - Hard to Start, Idle Unreliable

Good news. I am a noob, and I guess my needles were out of whack and it caused me to rip the gear off after she quit in a low knife edge.

Its all a learning experience though, I'll report back tomorrow evening, hopefully with an intact airplane. Happy flying this weekend.
Old 12-09-2006, 10:40 AM
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Default RE: DA50 - Hard to Start, Idle Unreliable

Ok..Im gonna give you the level 10 top-secret way to tune a DA 50..even DA doesn't know about it

The way I tell if Im too rich is do a knife edge pass at 1/2 throttle..then just go back to level flight..if the engine sputters for a second or 2 then the low end is a little too rich..land and lean out a 1/16th and try again until there is no change when transitioning from KE to level flight..this works EVERY time for me..then just re-check the high end to be sure everything is ok..
Old 12-09-2006, 05:13 PM
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Default RE: DA50 - Hard to Start, Idle Unreliable

Hey Guys,

Well today the engine ran really strong. Everything was fine, flew 3 flights, was going to take a fourth then bam, nothing happened.

The engine wasn't starting for anything. Right before it wouldn't pop it would run at idle, but would die when the throttle was advanced. Then it wouldn't pop at all when choking. Does the plug need to be replaced? Battery was okay, everything checked out. I also pulled the plug and started flipping the prop, but no spark at all. Fuel is getting to the engine, it just won't pop at all. Thanks for any suggestions.

Adam
Old 12-10-2006, 12:19 PM
  #29  
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Default RE: DA50 - Hard to Start, Idle Unreliable

Well here again, I'm not a DA owner but I've tried to keep up on threads concerning them as they might be something I'll try in the future.

It sounds to me like you've got some sort of ignition problem now...

There have been a number of posts suggesting that the DA provided electrical connections for the ignition module leave something to be desired and problems with the power supply to the ignition should be checked first i.e. terminals, switches etc. If those check good there is always the possibility of a bad module. While I can tell you how to do that with another brand ignition module, I can't say specifically about DA but you'll need to verify a spark is being produced. If you have access to another module, that's the quick way to tell for sure.

Maybe some of these guys with more experience, specifically DA, will chime in again.
Old 12-19-2006, 07:10 PM
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Default RE: DA50 - Hard to Start, Idle Unreliable

Alright update with the DA.

Figured out the engine was flooded. Pulled the plug to look at it, tried to get a spark out of it by flipping the prop and a bunch of fuel dripped out. Just for fun I decided to try to see if it would fire when I put the plug back in and on the first flip. Bang it fires.

I have since followed the tuning instructions da has given me to the T and what are the results? Well a great engine that hasn't deadsticked since before I talked to them, starts very easily, and idles at an amazing 1100 rpm if i want it to. It doesn't hesitate at all either when advanced to full power. We have gotten it down to 900 rpm about, but it eventually died. it ran for about 30 seconds though.

Anyhow, thanks for all of your help, all is good now.
Old 12-20-2006, 02:44 PM
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Default RE: DA50 - Hard to Start, Idle Unreliable

It´s a love-hate relationship with gassers until you´ve changed the software in you (GLOW Software that is.....). After that, they´re a blast, and you´ll never want to go back to Glow again!. Just some patience, and openess....

Good LUCK!!!
Old 09-10-2007, 03:55 PM
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Default RE: DA50 - Hard to Start, Idle Unreliable

For future reference, the spark plug must be grounded to the cylinder for it to spark. This might explain why you didn't see a spark when you removed the plug and flipped the prop.
Old 09-10-2007, 07:12 PM
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Default RE: DA50 - Hard to Start, Idle Unreliable


ORIGINAL: N7160F

For future reference, the spark plug must be grounded to the cylinder for it to spark. This might explain why you didn't see a spark when you removed the plug and flipped the prop.
I'm not sure that is quite true. On the DA and similar electronic ignition engines that use shielded spark plug leads with metal plug caps, the only ground between ignition box and the engine is the plug cap. The plug voltage return path to the ignition is through the plug lead shield. There are a few rare exceptions ..... for example CH ignitions that have the rubber plug boot .... in this case the shield is either attached to the plug with a clamp or attached to the engine with a mounting bolt or a small screw to the top of the cylinder. In this case, yes the plug must be grounded to the engine cylinder anytime the ignition battery switch is turned on. I have seen other ground arrangements but when metal caps are present along with shielded plug leads ... the majority of the time the ground is only accomplished with that cap. If the cap is on the plug, it will spark and not damage the ignition module or the hall sensor.
Old 09-10-2007, 08:58 PM
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Default RE: DA50 - Hard to Start, Idle Unreliable

I reaffirm what TruckRacer said... When I was debugging an ignition problem with my DA-50 there was no need to ground the plug to see the spark. In a slightly darkened garage it was easy to see -- and sometimes hear!
Old 09-10-2007, 11:00 PM
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Default RE: DA50 - Hard to Start, Idle Unreliable

I sit corrected.
Old 10-21-2007, 09:00 PM
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Default RE: DA50 - Hard to Start, Idle Unreliable

I recently aquired a DA 50 for 425 usd. Was bored and made a low offer. Seller accepted and met that evening. He said engine had 3 gallons thru it. Came with muffler and stand offs, and ignitions. I have a plane with a DL 50 and wanted to see the difference side by side. So to switch out I had to flip carb for linkage orientation and the inside of the case looked brand new and super clean. Plug looked rich as it should on the break in. Installed easily but started hard. I should have set to factory specs but figured the guy paid fulll price and used 32:1 for break in. Well the high needle was out four turns and the low 3. I set at factory and it started right up. A little tuning and it was running at peak rpm. I got 12 flights with lots of 3-D. Quality engine. It does noticably lean out when inverted. All 20 of us found this verry amusing. But it didn't die so I guess I'll just live with it.
Old 10-21-2007, 09:24 PM
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Default RE: DA50 - Hard to Start, Idle Unreliable

If a DA is changing when inverted then there is another problem. I've owned and still own several DA50's and not one has ever changed when inverted. It could be any number of things from airflow inside the cowl to it still being a bit rich and I've even seen two or three do it until you changed oil, meaning 32:1 to a thinner ratio like 50 or 100 to one. If the serial number is pre-3100 then does it have the upgraded carb block and crank

There really is no reason to run a gas engine rich. Breakin comes from the type of oil and not how rich it is
Old 10-21-2007, 09:39 PM
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Default RE: DA50 - Hard to Start, Idle Unreliable

I am running 100 to one. This phenomena had been noted by other DA owners in various threads. The serial # is in the 4025 range. I leaned it out to max rpm as the previous owner said 3 gallons of break in had been run. The manual say 2-4 gallons.
Old 10-21-2007, 09:50 PM
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Default RE: DA50 - Hard to Start, Idle Unreliable

Sorry if I sounded a bit harsh. I am aware of other owners having the same issue (it usually goes rich though, not lean because the fuel pools in the area just ahead of the reed block) and in almost all cases that I have personally seen this I have been able to tune it out or add another fuel nipple to the other side of the block and use a "T" to put it with the one that is already installed.

You can usually tune it out though
Old 10-21-2007, 10:09 PM
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Default RE: DA50 - Hard to Start, Idle Unreliable

After 12 flights and tuning each flight I don't think it's going away. I fly gas engines from 35cc to 210cc from several maufactures. I own three DA engines. I also have other brand 50 cc engines and have no probs tuning them. I was hoping there is a solution. Glad to hear you have seen this go away with tuning. I tried plenty. Like I say it did not die but repeated the symptom consistently through various needle settings. Could be atmospheric pressure but other 50s in the same airframe with carb orientation the same do not do this. I can live with it, just put on the engine that was there before, or try switching carbs. Has any one had any luck with diff carb read block?
Old 10-22-2007, 08:32 AM
  #41  
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Default RE: DA50 - Hard to Start, Idle Unreliable

The DL 50 reed block won't fit.
I have new DA 50 reeds on the way to try that.
Mine leans out noticeably when inverted.
I've tried a line inside the fuse, outside the fuse, and now in a balsa box.
Rebuilt the carb while I was at it too.

It's got 5 gallons through it of 32:1.
I'm hoping more time helps.
Not hopeful though...
Old 10-24-2007, 11:17 PM
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Default RE: DA50 - Hard to Start, Idle Unreliable

Too bad, I was hoping that they would interchange. Oh well back to the drawing board. let me know how the new reed block works out.
Old 10-27-2007, 01:23 AM
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Default RE: DA50 - Hard to Start, Idle Unreliable

Believe it or not, the DA reeds still aren't here yet.
I've called a couple of times, but still nothing.

In the mean time, I ordered a DL50 carb and installed it.
Still raining here, so it isn't tried yet.

Supposedly the DL carb is metered/jetted differently.
Bob at DL told me that they made several changes to the carb while in the design and testing phase of the
DL50.
It's a Walbro China only carb, so it isn't available through the USA distribution network here.

The pop off pressure was off the charts on my DL carb when I got it.
I adjusted it to around 15 pounds before I installed it.

We'll see how it performs vs the stock DA50 carb.
Old 10-27-2007, 11:16 PM
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Default RE: DA50 - Hard to Start, Idle Unreliable

I hope that carb work out cause I could get one of those without any hassle. Keep me posted. thnx
Old 10-28-2007, 12:56 AM
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Default RE: DA50 - Hard to Start, Idle Unreliable

skreamer -> Are you saying that you installed a DL carb on your DA50?
Old 10-28-2007, 05:46 PM
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Default RE: DA50 - Hard to Start, Idle Unreliable

No, you said you had order and installed but it was raining. I said that i hope that carb works out for you because I could get one really easy. Like the one off of my DL-50s that I have. Then could replace the carb on the DL with another from DL.
Old 10-28-2007, 06:50 PM
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Default RE: DA50 - Hard to Start, Idle Unreliable

I just went out and switched carb off DL onto DA. Too windy to try flying tonight but tomorrow morning I will. Bob did you get to fly yours and how was it?
Old 10-29-2007, 05:43 AM
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Default RE: DA50 - Hard to Start, Idle Unreliable

Got to fly it a little yesterday, but it was windy as all get out here too.
The carb seems to be better, but because of the weather, I didn't get to fiddle with it too much.
The wind was blowing so hard, I could hardly hear the engine at times.

It still leans out a "little" when inverted though.
I'll have to work on that...
Old 10-29-2007, 02:01 PM
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Default RE: DA50 - Hard to Start, Idle Unreliable

Flew mine with the DL carb. No improvement here. I will try to modify the DL reed block and reed holder to fit. The reed holder is substantial enough to grind down to fit the opening. The reed block can be built up with JB weld to cover opening in back plate. With the different block I will tap the case for the pulse line as is done on the DL.
Old 10-29-2007, 02:45 PM
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Default RE: DA50 - Hard to Start, Idle Unreliable

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