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New 3W 85xi

Old 02-23-2007, 09:45 AM
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Flip and Fly
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Default New 3W 85xi

Its starting up again, can you hear that, its the displacement wars.

Frankly I wish they would just go to 100cc and stop wasting our time

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Old 02-23-2007, 09:57 AM
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shakeelsid
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Default RE: New 3W 85xi

No, it is a sound business sense - it introduces a whole new range of aircraft that would be powered by this motor. Already fliers on a 70 sized bird are looking to shoehorn 80, 90 or even 100 size engines. I00 cc is a psychological thing, isnt it, going 100 means you are playing in the big league now, and very few dare to tread that path.
My only observation is, when you are getting that large, is it not better to have a twin - smoother and thus kinder on the slenderly built shaghai airframes.

I am reminded of my woodhopper ultralight from a couple of decades ago - 100 cc yamaha go-cart conversion. 12 hp was all it needed to clock 55 mph.
Old 02-23-2007, 10:34 AM
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Antique
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Default RE: New 3W 85xi

Might be sound business sense but it will drive the repair places crazy trying to figure out which parts fit....There are too many sizes of 3w engines already....
Doesn't seem to hurt DA's business to have only 4 sizes...
Old 02-23-2007, 11:19 AM
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Flip and Fly
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Default RE: New 3W 85xi

Well I for one would love a nice light 100cc single in my 35% Extra.

Would not be much more weight than my 80Xi that I have, the 80 is good but a 100 would be perfect. I don't want to go with a twin, too much cash.

I don't think a single 100 would vibrate all that much more than a 80/85, cost less than a twin, with good power for sure.

Too each his own I guess[8D]

It just seems to me that its going that way, DA 85, now 3W 85, ZDZ will pull the plug, do I hear 100cc
Old 02-23-2007, 11:47 AM
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shakeelsid
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Default RE: New 3W 85xi


ORIGINAL: RCIGN1

Might be sound business sense but it will drive the repair places crazy trying to figure out which parts fit....There are too many sizes of 3w engines already....
Doesn't seem to hurt DA's business to have only 4 sizes...
Well they can always consult you - like many who do now.

You should now start working on that engine encyclopaedia for posterioty's sake.

Old 02-23-2007, 01:03 PM
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JEFFRO503
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Default RE: New 3W 85xi

Looks like that new 85 and 170 are going to be released around march sometime. hmmmm??.........seems pretty quick on the release dates , doesn't it? That DA85 had idea had been floating around for almost two years i heard. I think this new 3W 85 is probably a bored out 80 , with a little more , you guys think that's a correct assumption?

I'm llooking to get a motor of this size in a couple months , hope this ones released in time.


Old 02-23-2007, 02:33 PM
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Default RE: New 3W 85xi


ORIGINAL: RCIGN1


Doesn't seem to hurt DA's business to have only 4 sizes...

I'll bite. 50, 100, 150 and ????
Old 02-23-2007, 03:02 PM
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Default RE: New 3W 85xi

The 85cc single was shown on a video at the Ontario IMS show...
There arealso a few 200cc four cylinder engines around, Chip flew at the TOC with a 200cc four cylinder...Saw it at Castle last year in a big bipe....
Old 02-24-2007, 12:01 AM
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Default RE: New 3W 85xi

JEFFRO503
iF you are looking for a 80 cc engine do yourself a favour and buy a zdz super 80 and forget about it!
Everyone is trying to match zdz and coming out with a 85cc engine to try to compete
The 3w80 was no good so now they will sell you a 85 and try to tell you how great it is and for extra money
you could even get a different version for even more money
Love the way companies market thier products.
Old 02-24-2007, 07:36 AM
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Flip and Fly
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Default RE: New 3W 85xi

Bang for buck the 3W 80xi wins hands down, and on in cowl mufflers I don't think it makes any less power than the ZDZ 80 RVJ. Not from what I seen, but oh brother lets not go there[:@] Tuned pipes might be a different matter but c'est la vie!

They are bumping it up 5cc because like shakeelsid said its a marketing thing for sure and why not squeeze more power out of it. Keep the cost lower than the rest, well thats it, they will sell many.

Me I am holding out for the 100cc's
Old 02-25-2007, 03:08 PM
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shakeelsid
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Default RE: New 3W 85xi

Ok, let me explain what I said before.

In a highly competitive arena, businesses try to differentiate. 85 cc may not be any much more than the existing 80 cc, but think about what happens when a buyer is out in the market for a 80 cc motor and has to decide among three identical motors. He (she?) sees this 85 cc thing and suddenly many decision criteria are influenced. Once the initial sales have stabilized, the company can offer an incentive to few airframe manufacturers to introduce models specifically for 85 cc engine. Think about it, would you like to put a 45 cc engine in an airframe which calls for DA/ZDZ/3W-50.
In a competitive arena, even 5% more market share is a significant gain, and if single product modifcation can provide such a gain, think where the business could be in a couple of years time with similar strategic interventions.





Old 02-25-2007, 04:25 PM
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Default RE: New 3W 85xi

Perception - sells better than facts in many cases -
Old 02-25-2007, 05:38 PM
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Default RE: New 3W 85xi

ORIGINAL: RCIGN1

Might be sound business sense but it will drive the repair places crazy trying to figure out which parts fit....There are too many sizes of 3w engines already....
Doesn't seem to hurt DA's business to have only 4 sizes...
Agreed. I kind of think that 3W just cranks out new engines and releases them on the public for bete testing. How many versions of the 70cc and 75cc and 80cc and now 85cc engines can one company produce? Why is it necessary? Pick one and make it the best. Not 4 mediocre engines of minutely different displacements.
Old 02-25-2007, 09:16 PM
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Flip and Fly
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Default RE: New 3W 85xi

Well I was happy with my 3W 80 then, and I am still happy with it now. Solid motor, 3W and the rest know that people need the next greatest thing, so thats life.

By the way, nothing wrong with a little competition, no!

I am not trying to say one brand is better than the other, no delusion, all I want is 100cc's.
Old 02-26-2007, 10:46 AM
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Default RE: New 3W 85xi


ORIGINAL: RCIGN1

The 85cc single was shown on a video at the Ontario IMS show...
There arealso a few 200cc four cylinder engines around, Chip flew at the TOC with a 200cc four cylinder...Saw it at Castle last year in a big bipe....

I have seen pics of the 200 in the mags, and have seen pics of the 6 cylinder. But those don't seem generally for sale, I guess the 85 will be? Making four in the lineup.

Thanks for the info, I hadn't heard about the DA 85!
Old 03-01-2007, 12:31 AM
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Default RE: New 3W 85xi

I have a zdz rv, thing is a monster. thinking about getting a super 80, but after talking with bobby at CA, the way the price point may end up being on this 85, and if the power is what he is claiming, the 3w85 is going to be a slam dunk!
Old 03-01-2007, 10:00 AM
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Default RE: New 3W 85xi

I can see that the 85 will make more power, but will it be that much!

They will hike the price a little I guess, and why not. In some ways they keep tooling costs down this way ( small developments) and they do pass the savings on to us. Its reflected in the cost.

Personally I like the 3W motors I have had, my 80 has been very good to me

I have not need service yet, hope that will be as good as ZDZ was to me!
Old 03-02-2007, 08:01 PM
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Default RE: New 3W 85xi

The 3w 85 and 170 have both been in testing for several months. 3W has the man power to get new engines to the market when they want. The course from the 70-85 has been more than 6 years. Technology changes and the new engines have extremely different cylinders compared to the old 70.
And I would not complain about the price. Look how much less money the 80 is compared to other manufactures. 3W has been trying hard to make their product fit in everyones hands. Sure they still have to make money. Also they need to make enough to continue to stay above the rest in technology and R&D.
The new 85 should be out later this month if everything stays on course.
Old 03-05-2007, 10:43 AM
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Default RE: New 3W 85xi

I talked to Bobby at Cactus late last week about the 85. All i have to say is that Garrett is right about 3W working hard to get their products to fit in everyone's hands, and this 85 won't be an exception. These will be priced right, and a good match for so many airframes. I'm excited and ready!
Old 03-06-2007, 01:28 AM
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Default RE: New 3W 85xi

they dont sleep at 3w other companys sleep so the winner is [8D]the wise man work silly man sleeps.
go 3w & keep them coming pls
cg
Old 03-06-2007, 09:24 AM
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Default RE: New 3W 85xi

I have a question...please this is NOT a troll so don't flame me...

Why is it that people are so excited and enthralled about a DA-85 announcement and not so about the 3W.

I own a DA-50 and know that their service is legendary and the engine is awesome. But I also own a BMW M3 and realize that german engineering is in a different league.

Thanks.
Old 03-06-2007, 10:36 AM
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Default RE: New 3W 85xi

Could have something to do with DA not putting out a new motor every year. The new DA 85 looks polished and I am sure it is well engineered and will work great.

The 3W 85 will be good for sure. Pick your flavor.

What I can't stand is all the hype about one motor being soooooo much better than the rest
Old 03-06-2007, 01:37 PM
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Default RE: New 3W 85xi


ORIGINAL: TailTouch

I have a question...please this is NOT a troll so don't flame me...

Why is it that people are so excited and enthralled about a DA-85 announcement and not so about the 3W.

I own a DA-50 and know that their service is legendary and the engine is awesome. But I also own a BMW M3 and realize that german engineering is in a different league.

Thanks.
You said it yourself

European quality standards in general are pretty refined and cost is often secondary. USA is a huge cost concious market. Yes you can compensate by having a good service and backup, but it is better to make a product that does not need to use backup service. I have never had any BMW go to a repair and rectification (I have had a few) - same with 3W
Its not only german, look at all those Czeck, Italiand and Polish motors - vow is an understatement.


Old 03-06-2007, 02:36 PM
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Default RE: New 3W 85xi

German engineering in a different league ? All you people who think European engineering is so much better have not seen all the engines I have....Some of the worst castings ever seen were on European engines...
A spark plug cap that's held on with a setscrew is not exactly rocket science..
Bing carbs ? Don't make me laugh
Carbs that have to be ground so as to fit the intake manifolds...
Carb mounts so thin they bend when the carb is tightened...
Europe is not alone, read the Torch writeup in the latest RC Flyer..
SPE ??? Ever see a cylinder split when a spark plug is tightened ?
Or an exhaust port higher on one side than it is on the other ?
Ignitions that quit when hot..
Just when you tnink you've seen it all something else comes along...
Old 03-06-2007, 03:00 PM
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Default RE: New 3W 85xi

European quality standards in general are pretty refined and cost is often secondary. USA is a huge cost concious market. Yes you can compensate by having a good service and backup, but it is better to make a product that does not need to use backup service. I have never had any BMW go to a repair and rectification (I have had a few) - same with 3W
Its not only german, look at all those Czeck, Italiand and Polish motors - vow is an understatement.
So you think that a 3W motor will never need service.... I think you have not been around these forums long enough

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