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BME Extreme 115...Good....Bad...Need Opinions

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BME Extreme 115...Good....Bad...Need Opinions

Old 10-27-2007, 03:14 PM
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Tomcat_104
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Default RE: BME Extreme 115...Good....Bad...Need Opinions

My cowl measures just under 11.5".That was what the DA and 3W measured. That's why I thought I would like the BEM engine, it measures 10.5". After reading what you guys have said about the carburetor issue I don't know what I am going to do. Maybe I'm better off going with a single cylinder solution like the Q100M that is recommended. I'll call Keith next week and see if he's solved the carburetor problem yet. It's simply too expensive (what isn't) a plane to be his guinea pig on.

David
Old 10-27-2007, 06:07 PM
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marksextra
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Default RE: BME Extreme 115...Good....Bad...Need Opinions

David,

BME is great, don't get me wrong. And this engine is great too, but just not with this carb.

Also, What would you expect the owner to say when you call him? He's not going to tell you they have problems that they haven't solved yet and you shouldn't purchase this enigne. He's going to tell you to buy it and you should be fine. Remember when the 110 orginally had problems? Customer service was an issue imho. You should seriously consider buying something else. BME has a great powerplant, just not the 115 right now. Maybe a tested 110? Maybe a single... Just my opinion.
Old 10-27-2007, 09:25 PM
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Default RE: BME Extreme 115...Good....Bad...Need Opinions

Turbo2000,

I hoped Keith would tell me if and how he addressed the problem. A smaller carb or a 3 needle adjustment or something. I'm thinking now I may have to go with something like the Quadra 100 that is battle tested.

David
Old 10-27-2007, 11:03 PM
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skreamer
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Default RE: BME Extreme 115...Good....Bad...Need Opinions

Well I'm glad you have all the info on this engine. Now you can look for a realistic solution. Good luck with your build.
Old 10-28-2007, 09:46 AM
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altavillan
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Default RE: BME Extreme 115...Good....Bad...Need Opinions

So everyone is happy. Another succesful BME flame away. All from experts that haven't been within 100 miles of one.

Here's a clue, The 115 uses a carb from a 150+ cc motor. Pretty amazing that it can run at all on a carb that could swallow a 100cc carb and have room left over to fit DL50 patent rights.

The engine runs fine from idle to 3/4 throttle after that at WOT it leans out and runs hot. Well DUUUHH. After 3/4 throttle it's getting more air than it can handle. Way more than a SDC carb can flow.

Why does it come with a WB carb? Because there is no carb between the SDC and WB. And the manufacturer wants it to produce all the power it can.

For those that can't figure out how to limit servo travel you will have problems overheating. And should avoid this engine.
If you want to put a SDC carb on one you will have an engine that tunes easy runs and sounds like anyother engine and can rip a 28x10 PT at around 3/4 throttle.
200+ flights on mine, numerous engine over heats. As in hot enough to melt the teflon couplers. Was returned to BME for repairs needed after a wing bolt failure and the pistons were shaved .001 cylinders were honed. Since switching to the SDC carb it is getting more compression on each flight.

No rocket sience here. Just a desire to run an engine almost 2# lighter than any other option, and am happy to say very succesfully.


Arnold
Old 10-28-2007, 10:54 AM
  #31  
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Default RE: BME Extreme 115...Good....Bad...Need Opinions

David,

I will confirm that the Quadra 100 is battle tested as you say. They develop good power, are very reliable and have the weight that you will need up front. I think this option might work well in your application.

I also noticed on the Bennett Built website (who sells Quadras & accessories) that he offers several Quadra twins. I don't have any experience with a large Quadra twin and don't know the dimensions, but perhaps you could give Bill a call and talk to him about it? Here's a link to the page-->http://bennettbuilt.com/page1.htm

-Ed B.
Old 10-28-2007, 01:08 PM
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Default RE: BME Extreme 115...Good....Bad...Need Opinions

Guy,

That's the info that has needed to get out there. You knew it, RTK has been working another direction but knew it, and I suspected it based on the conversations that we've had. But NOBODY else knew it. That was the problem. I have not been the one doing the flu=ying and testing for obvious reasons.

The new thing is how do people find this carb that actually works? If Keith was to contact Walbro and place an order for a discontinued carb in quantities there would be no issue. Imn the mean time everyone needs to hunt down an SDC carb from various saw shops in various conditions and install them on their engines.

As for my reluctance to run the engine until the fix was found the reasons were and are pretty simple. Bare airframe at $1,755.00, painted, not covered. Servos (8) 8611's and (1) 4721 at an average of $90.00 each. PCM receiver at about $180.00. Batteries, (2) Fromeco 5,200mAh and (1) Fromeco 2,600mAh, regulators, (3) Fromeco Super Reliaswitches at somewhere around $65.00 each. Matchboxes (4) at $119.00/pair. Now all that adds up to some dollars that I don't feel like spending all over again, not even factoring in the small amount of time I have available to build/assemble, and fly.

The landing gear plate on the plane, even reinforced, is an area that's pretty darn difficult to repair, but then again there should not be a reason to make repairs if the engine was to remain running. Paint is pretty hard to match, and composite repairs on a brand new airplane is just something I don't have any desire for at the moment. Since the fields we fly at are not friendly to off runway landings why take the risk of an engine that has or had known issues with mid range reliability? I know I've landed someone else's dead stick plane at least once and he had a few of his own. Luck has been on our side and the runway was made every time. One of your was kinda sjhakey as well if I recall correctly but agreed your engine was kinda worn out at the time.

I don't think for a moment that I'm the only one that has been in this situation and I could not blame the others for waiting as well. Had a fix not been found the 115 in mine was coming out along with all the associated work that had been done to fit it properly and another maker's engine would have been going in. I can work with the balance issues a lot easier than I could an engine and tinkering I just don't have the time for.

The above are some of the reasons I backed away from public support for this engine and reasons that I won't currently recommend it. I just can't recommend an engine that has a 50-50 chance of not functioning properly. That would be like suggesting an SPE or similar. The maker has had a year to get it handled and you and Ralph have ended up doing the lion's share of the work.
Old 10-28-2007, 03:31 PM
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Default RE: BME Extreme 115...Good....Bad...Need Opinions

Altavillan/ Arnold,


You must be right. We're all self-proclaimed experts that don't have a clue. You're right, I mean, why would we want an engine that works! Surely we should all want to buy an engine for over $1100, and not have it work the way it comes from the mfg. We should all be small engine mechanics so that we can fix the engine we just bought that doesn't work. We should all spend time finding different carbs and other homemade fixes for our brandnew engines. We should all risk our planes with an engine that doesn't run wot and overheats.

You said: "Why does it come with a WB carb? Because there is no carb between the SDC and WB. And the manufacturer wants it to produce all the power it can." Power is no good if the engine doesn't run reliably! NO ONE WANTS MORE POWER IF THE ENGINE DOESN'T RUN! As far as I am concerned this combo doesn't work and shouldn't be sold until it does. It's irresponsible.



K. i'm done now.[sm=47_47.gif]

David,

Sorry about the advice, but seriously. Think about it. BME is still selling as many 115's as it can with no mention of any problems on their website. I bet if you call BME and never mentioned you know anything about any problems ask them if you can give them $1195 for one of their engines, they just sell you one with their fingers crossed. Just a guess. BME does have some good products, but i just don't like this kind of business. I really start getting ticked when I think of the people out there that are new to the hobby, buy an engine like this, and get out of it because they get burned from something like this. People/experts like Arnold are out there saying..."What? There's nothing wrong with this engine" That's just crap. You shouldn't have to be an expert to expect a $1200 brand new engine to run without modification when you get it home. Period!
Old 10-28-2007, 05:13 PM
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Default RE: BME Extreme 115...Good....Bad...Need Opinions

So what altavillain is saying is that if you want an engine that runs a 3/4 throttle, then this is the one for you????? So if you set your end point on your throttle servo to only open 3/4 of the way it won't over heat??? Sounds like a great engine.[:@] Ha, ha, ha, lighten up altavillain. I'm sure the manufacturer can step in and protect himself. He probably will when he has it solved to his own great relief.
Old 10-28-2007, 06:36 PM
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Default RE: BME Extreme 115...Good....Bad...Need Opinions

I fly with Altavillan and name calling is not a thing I would sanely do. Him and RTK also happen to be real good people. Let's back up a minute. I gave what I believe to be valid reasons for not supporting or using the engine in it's current configuration. Don't forget, I also own one. That's not bashing, just stating reasons with concerns for the outcome of some pricey (for me) equipment.

Altavillan and RTK have expended considerable time, effort, and risk in their experments with the 115's carbeuration. The primary reason was to provide themselves with a better performing engine. A side benefit was helping out anyone that was willing to listen. I've flown with both people and know absolutely that when the 115 is running right it's the strongest engine out there in anything close to it's size. It most certainly WILL rip a 28-10 prop at 3/4 throttle! That's a 28-10 wood, btw, not carbon.

Altalvillan's note about setting up for less than full throttle was actually pretty good advice for many. A fair number of people will tune the engine for max rpm and check the temps with a temp gun, then wonder why the engine later fried. More still would not bother to baffle the engine, making the situation even worse. By setting up to less than max the engine would be difficult to run lean. No, you wouldn't get max power but most aren't getting that with what they have now. The 115, when running correctly, doesn't need to hit max rpm to out perform a DA 100 or 3w-106. A 3W-120 might keep up with it but end up about 3 pounds heavier.

So back off the name calling if you would please. The man knows what he's doing, and up until now sharing it with all of you.
Old 10-28-2007, 06:38 PM
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Default RE: BME Extreme 115...Good....Bad...Need Opinions

As usual y'all missed the important part. I'll type it real slow. It developes all of its available power at 3/4 throttle. It cant draw more. Opening the throttle more and the venturi effect is canceled. A 150+ cc engine can draw more but not the BME 115. Tune your engine to run about 3/4 throttle.

Putting on a SDC carb works and I am going to try different ideas as time alows.

Got to finaly fly with a couple of guys with 3W 106's today. Of course one guys ignition died but the other's flew fine. It was in a SD yak. Flew circles around him. Could of been his big round cowl slowing him down but mine doesn't slow down in the verticle.

For those interested; Anyone want help of how to tune the carb? If yes just ask.
Old 10-28-2007, 11:39 PM
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Default RE: BME Extreme 115...Good....Bad...Need Opinions

ORIGINAL: AndresAM

So true!!! I hate the nerve of some people still trying to convince others in these forums that this engine is an option to consider at this moment when it is not!.
What a crock. I have owned most of the manufacturers of RC engines in this hobby. There is not a single engine that I have not been able to make run right. Ask any manufacturer why 99 percent of service repairs are done (not including crashes). Operator error. I have no reason to be biased.
I am about at the point where I could care less to help other people. My 115 with a 3 needle carb runs better than any other manufacturers engine with a standard 2 needle carb.
Old 10-29-2007, 07:13 AM
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Default RE: BME Extreme 115...Good....Bad...Need Opinions

RTK,

Good for you bro. Seriously. This engine is a powerhouse that is lightest in it's class.

I just wish they all ran that way. That's all. Your 3 needle carb, does that come stock with the engine now? If not, then BME shouldn't be selling this engine until it runs properly. No doubt you've been a great help to alot of people out there. I bet BME loves you two for helping him figure this thing out, but what about the guy who buys a $1200 engine to get it home and it doesn't run? Was it his responsibility to have read this thread? Or is there an expectation to be had that the new engine would run? BME is still selling 115's today! ARE THEY FIXED? if the answer is no, or depends on where you live or your altitue or how you modify them, then that's a crock, it's just irresponsible.
Old 10-29-2007, 10:19 AM
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Default RE: BME Extreme 115...Good....Bad...Need Opinions

turbo200--I have talked to Keith numerous times and I Think he is the type of guy who will make things right for everyone that owns a 115. I never ran his first modification so I can't comment on that and I know the high altitude fliers are having some problems. Altivillan put an SDC carb on his and it runs fine for him too. If you run a tuned system or semi tuned cans the problems do not seem to appear with the richening in mid range when rolling. PATRICK P also say he can make any 115 run perfect and has sent out the bolt on mod to some testors.
It just rubs me wrong when people come here and says that the 115 won't run right and then imply that any one's that does is some sort of a shill. Most people that comment probably have never even seen one.
Old 10-29-2007, 02:32 PM
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Default RE: BME Extreme 115...Good....Bad...Need Opinions

So there are consumers out there trying to fix there engines and help others with thiers. I never stated that this engine doesn't run right I just pointed to the thread that says it doesn't run right. I have not seen one of these in person and don't need to in order to comment on the 36 page thread where the folks that have seen one in person and own one are trying to fix theirs. RTK has stated that he thinks the owner of BME will make things right for everyone that owns a BME. So there is a problem. That is what the starter of this thread is asking good bad or otherwise. No one is trying to flame BME but some owners that have modified there product say thiers runs great and imply that there is no prob and don't state that thiers is in fact modified or ever had problems. I would call this glossing over the facts and could hurt the hobby as stated earlier in this thread. If people have a bad first experience in this $ range they are not likely to try again. Especially if they built a kit and not an ARF. Either way it is a whole lot of money and time invested in thier project. I would love to put a couple of my own planes on a BME diet. I really hope this gets fixed by the manufacturer or by the poor folks that ended up being the unwitting testors.

Turbo 2000, great questions. I notice none of them were answered.
Old 10-29-2007, 03:17 PM
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Default RE: BME Extreme 115...Good....Bad...Need Opinions

I will repeat my self once again and for the last time. I own one of the first 115's made. It came with a WGA carb and ran perfect for 3D and aerobatics. A few people, including an IMAC flier in the unlimited class, flew it with no issues. Keith then recommended I try the WB carb because he felt it had a better top end. The carb was very sensitive to needle adjustments and air flow, but at my altitude could be adjusted to run. The problem I saw was when running at extended WOT it seem to run a little hotter than I liked. Most people don't run at WOT for 30-60 seconds like I do at times. Keith came up with a modification that he illustrated here on RCU. I have not tried it but he said it works. He has also made and adjustable linked 2 needle carb I requested but have not tried yet and he made the 3 needle carb which I run now.

skreamer---I, nor you, or anyone else can answer that question. Only Keith. Mine ran fine before the carb change and now runs fine again with the new 3 needle carb. I have had good service from every engine manufacturer I have bought from, that is how a business stays in business.
For all you people that think I am a shill, I guess I will just go and be happy flying my plane that runs well and is 2lbs lighter. BY
Old 10-29-2007, 08:44 PM
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Default RE: BME Extreme 115...Good....Bad...Need Opinions

RTK, PLEASE STICK AROUND. I ENJOY AND LEARN FROM ALL THAT YOU PRINT IN THIS AND OTHER FORUMS. YOUR KNOWLEGDE IS FAR BETTER THEN MOST OF US! IN THIS HOBBY IF YOU MEET 10 PEOPLE AT THE FIELD 9 WILL GIVE YOU THE SHIRT OFF THIER BACK AND 1 WILL BE LESS THEN DESIREABLE. PLEASE STICK AROUND FOR THE 9 DESIREABLE PEOPLE WHO NEED YOUR INPUT.
Old 10-29-2007, 09:36 PM
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Default RE: BME Extreme 115...Good....Bad...Need Opinions

The name calling has been cleaned up some. This is getting tiresome and so is locking down threads because a couple of people lose their cool. The name calling will stop now. Period.
Old 10-30-2007, 07:53 AM
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Default RE: BME Extreme 115...Good....Bad...Need Opinions

BLW. Fine then.

The subject of the thread is: BME Extreme 115...Good...Bad...Need Opinions.

I'll offer mine. If BME has any problems with this engine for any reason, a problem that has been documented to re-occur from different users, then my vote is: You Should Look Elsewhere, for an engine for your project. You Could CRASH Your Plane if the engine dies! You may never fly at all if you don't have confidence that the engine won't run reliably.

My point is if half (or even 1/4 or even 1/8)of the Chevy trucks out there has a bad case of the tires falling off while driving down the road, and you were planning to buy a truck to drive across the country, you wouldn't buy a chevy would you? You'd buy a ford, or a toyota or something else.

Try another of BME's outstanding products. off the top of my head bme102, bme110, or even 3w106, da100, zdz100, fpe6.8, evo116, I could keep going....
Old 10-30-2007, 09:23 AM
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Default RE: BME Extreme 115...Good....Bad...Need Opinions

And while Turbo is out checking his lug nuts. If you'all happen to make the horrible mistake of buying a BME 115 that will fly circles around the competition and manage to be 2 lbs. lighter, don't hesitate to ask someone like me or someone else who has had success and is willing to share the how to to make it run right.

Arnold
Old 10-30-2007, 09:43 AM
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Default RE: BME Extreme 115...Good....Bad...Need Opinions

There have been several statements that Keith described his modification of the 115. Does anyone know where that post is?
Old 10-30-2007, 10:05 AM
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Default RE: BME Extreme 115...Good....Bad...Need Opinions

I like the analogy to a Chevy truck. David is looking for the right motor for a Corsair.

I am a new BME owner and mine came with a Walbro 2 needle carburetor. So far I have just test run the motor on the ground and what I found is that it starts easy, has a lot of power and transitions without a problem. No this is not flying but so far it has not given me any reason for concern. I scratch build and this motor will go into a Pitts Special, two reasons I choose this motor, it will fit into the cowl, same as David’s problem, and it weights two lbs less than the other 100’s. This is different than what David needs; he needs nose weight not light weight.

I also read all the post that are out there, good and bad. Then I asked around my neighborhood and found several people that own the BME 115 and they are flying this motor and have had no problems, they love the motor. I also found one that has had experience with two different BME 115’s and has had one with no problem and one with some issues that he is in the process of resolving.

If I were building a Corsair would I put in a BME 115, don’t think so. War birds are lead sleds and require a ton of nose weight and a bullet proof engine. A BME would be a waste. It would be like putting a Ferrari motor in a Chevy ¾ ton pick up truck. Yes it will work but why waste the motor. The BME needs to be in a high performance airframe.

Would I put a BME 115 into a scratch build light weight Pitts Special that took hundreds of hours to build, yes, that’s exactly what I am doing. I have confidence in the motor. I have confidence in BME. If any problems do show up on the first test flights there are others I can turn to that will help me get it right. I am willing to take the time to get it right. If what you want is a motor that will just get that Corsair in the air, a Chevy truck motor, the DA is a good choice. If this was my Corsair I would just put in a big single and fly.
Old 10-30-2007, 10:18 AM
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Default RE: BME Extreme 115...Good....Bad...Need Opinions


ORIGINAL: thaus

There have been several statements that Keith described his modification of the 115. Does anyone know where that post is?


http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_54...19/key_/tm.htm
Old 10-30-2007, 03:48 PM
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Default RE: BME Extreme 115...Good....Bad...Need Opinions

Altavillan,

As I recall the Walbro SDC 80 is about as large as the SDC series goes, though I could be mistaken. It works very well on the DA 100 and Brison 105. Do you know how the base mounting dimensions of the SDC 80 compare with what the carb currently mounted 115 has? I have a couple at home but ya know I can't quite get to them at the moment.

Those that are still having problems might want to try that route since the carb your flying is working so well, especially if it would be a simple bolt on swap.
Old 10-30-2007, 04:21 PM
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Default RE: BME Extreme 115...Good....Bad...Need Opinions

No direct swap Pat.

Keith has a modification which he performs on each carb that is sold on all the 115's being made now. He has illustrated it here on RCU too. I have not run this mod, but Keith "the manufacturer" claims it works.
I have done testing on some modified carbs which Keith performed. I asked for something different and he obliged. So far so good.
The reason for this.............................................. ...
I have a much different flying style at times than most people. I like to run at WOT for extended periods of time every now and again. Without the mod and if you run a small prop at too high of rpm's the engine will lean.
Don't think this problem is only with the 115. 3W mods there carbs too, I bought one a month or so ago and asked the distributor that exact question. His reply was that the carbs are mod'd before they are sent to him by 3W in Germany to clean up the mid range.

Pat one more thing. By the time you fly your 115 you will have a mod'd carb which will not let you down. If you don't I will give you mine or I am sure Altivillan will set you up with a duplicate of his.

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