Electric to Gas convert
03-27-2008, 12:17 PM
#1
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: honolulu,
HI
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Electric to Gas convert
Aloha All,
I've been flying .40 to .60 size planes on electric for several years. I'm interested in going .90 - 1.50 size or bigger. In my mind, the ONLY alternative is gas/ignition. (electric is too expensive at that size and glow is too much of a pain)
With that said, is there anyone who can direct me to a resource that provides a comprehensive comparison of major gas engine brands?
It would be really helpful to see how one engine, say a Zenoah G26-ei, stacks up against other brand of the same displacement, before I take the plunge.
I appreciate any input
I've been flying .40 to .60 size planes on electric for several years. I'm interested in going .90 - 1.50 size or bigger. In my mind, the ONLY alternative is gas/ignition. (electric is too expensive at that size and glow is too much of a pain)
With that said, is there anyone who can direct me to a resource that provides a comprehensive comparison of major gas engine brands?
It would be really helpful to see how one engine, say a Zenoah G26-ei, stacks up against other brand of the same displacement, before I take the plunge.
I appreciate any input
03-28-2008, 11:41 AM
#4
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: San Tan Valley,
AZ
Posts: 5,768
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Electric to Gas convert
I have a Hacker 6016M ($74 at AEF) installed in a Nitro models Extra ($299) with Hyperian HV Esc ($179) and a 10s2p A123 battery (Ebay $185)
179+185+75 =$439. About what you will pay for a gas engine. The batteries are good for about 1000 cycles if you are careful charging them.
Oh yes you will need a charger. I made my own, but then you won't need to buy gas.
The airplane came out a bit heavy, but it flies nice. I had the local hot shot fly it for me. I am an old person with weak eyes. One of these days I might work up the courage to fly it myself
179+185+75 =$439. About what you will pay for a gas engine. The batteries are good for about 1000 cycles if you are careful charging them.
Oh yes you will need a charger. I made my own, but then you won't need to buy gas.
The airplane came out a bit heavy, but it flies nice. I had the local hot shot fly it for me. I am an old person with weak eyes. One of these days I might work up the courage to fly it myself
03-28-2008, 07:28 PM
#5
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kerrville,
TX
Posts: 2,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Electric to Gas convert
ORIGINAL: dirtybird
179+185+75 =$439.
The airplane came out a bit heavy, but it flies nice. I had the local hot shot fly it for me. I am an old person with weak eyes. One of these days I might work up the courage to fly it myself
179+185+75 =$439.
The airplane came out a bit heavy, but it flies nice. I had the local hot shot fly it for me. I am an old person with weak eyes. One of these days I might work up the courage to fly it myself
03-28-2008, 11:56 PM
#6
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: San Tan Valley,
AZ
Posts: 5,768
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Electric to Gas convert
ORIGINAL: Charley
I don't get it I guess. Why spend all that $$ on something you're afraid to fly?
ORIGINAL: dirtybird
179+185+75 =$439.
The airplane came out a bit heavy, but it flies nice. I had the local hot shot fly it for me. I am an old person with weak eyes. One of these days I might work up the courage to fly it myself
179+185+75 =$439.
The airplane came out a bit heavy, but it flies nice. I had the local hot shot fly it for me. I am an old person with weak eyes. One of these days I might work up the courage to fly it myself
The Extra has to brought in from further out. I am installing flaps to help this out ,but the airplane was not designed for flaps, so who knows if they will help or not.
One day this will happen to you.
03-29-2008, 07:33 AM
#7
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Electric to Gas convert
I love electrics too, have a number of them. The cost is tricky thought. If you just want to get in the air, you need 1 battery set and it may work out to be slightly more expensive than gas. If all you want is 1-2 leisurely flights per day this is just fine. The story is totally different if you want to have multiple consecutive flights--this is where the $ pain is. As I said, I love electrics so I just accepted the $ and flight time restriction vs. noise / mess equation and found a point tat works for me. Here is what I mean by flight time restriction.
If it takes an hour to charge a set (which is a good speed), you will need 6 sets to fly for 2 hours. This is assuming 8 flights 10-12 minutes each, with two chargers running off your car charging packs you used up.
With gas, you just add fuel. To make it possible with electrics one will need about 4 chargers and 6 flight packs set up to continuously charge used up packs (=$$). Of course, the chargers will be suckung up 10+ amps from the car battery (the higher the flight pack cell count the higher the amps), so constantly idling the engine will be necessary (= more $$). Fun
.
If it takes an hour to charge a set (which is a good speed), you will need 6 sets to fly for 2 hours. This is assuming 8 flights 10-12 minutes each, with two chargers running off your car charging packs you used up.
With gas, you just add fuel. To make it possible with electrics one will need about 4 chargers and 6 flight packs set up to continuously charge used up packs (=$$). Of course, the chargers will be suckung up 10+ amps from the car battery (the higher the flight pack cell count the higher the amps), so constantly idling the engine will be necessary (= more $$). Fun
.
03-29-2008, 09:49 AM
#8
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: San Tan Valley,
AZ
Posts: 5,768
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Electric to Gas convert
ORIGINAL: andy86na
I love electrics too, have a number of them. The cost is tricky thought. If you just want to get in the air, you need 1 battery set and it may work out to be slightly more expensive than gas. If all you want is 1-2 leisurely flights per day this is just fine. The story is totally different if you want to have multiple consecutive flights--this is where the $ pain is. As I said, I love electrics so I just accepted the $ and flight time restriction vs. noise / mess equation and found a point tat works for me. Here is what I mean by flight time restriction.
If it takes an hour to charge a set (which is a good speed), you will need 6 sets to fly for 2 hours. This is assuming 8 flights 10-12 minutes each, with two chargers running off your car charging packs you used up.
With gas, you just add fuel. To make it possible with electrics one will need about 4 chargers and 6 flight packs set up to continuously charge used up packs (=$$). Of course, the chargers will be suckung up 10+ amps from the car battery (the higher the flight pack cell count the higher the amps), so constantly idling the engine will be necessary (= more $$). Fun.
I love electrics too, have a number of them. The cost is tricky thought. If you just want to get in the air, you need 1 battery set and it may work out to be slightly more expensive than gas. If all you want is 1-2 leisurely flights per day this is just fine. The story is totally different if you want to have multiple consecutive flights--this is where the $ pain is. As I said, I love electrics so I just accepted the $ and flight time restriction vs. noise / mess equation and found a point tat works for me. Here is what I mean by flight time restriction.
If it takes an hour to charge a set (which is a good speed), you will need 6 sets to fly for 2 hours. This is assuming 8 flights 10-12 minutes each, with two chargers running off your car charging packs you used up.
With gas, you just add fuel. To make it possible with electrics one will need about 4 chargers and 6 flight packs set up to continuously charge used up packs (=$$). Of course, the chargers will be suckung up 10+ amps from the car battery (the higher the flight pack cell count the higher the amps), so constantly idling the engine will be necessary (= more $$). Fun
.
Some fliers charge directly from the battery without a charger. See the A123 thread under batteries and chargers.
I will not use LiPolys for the reasons you state plus you have to worry about them exploding and burning your house down.
A123 cells are good for more than 1000 cycles. You probably will never wear a set out if you are careful not to over charge them.
A123 cells are heavier. You have to choose your airplane carefully. The Nitroplanes Extra is not a good one for this.
03-29-2008, 11:13 AM
#9
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kerrville,
TX
Posts: 2,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Electric to Gas convert
[quote]ORIGINAL: dirtybird
[quote]ORIGINAL: Charley
ORIGINAL: dirtybird
179+185+75 =$439.
T In the last couple of years my eyes have grown quite weak. Its hard to see them when they get too far out. A biplane is better since I can keep it close in.
One day this will happen to you.
179+185+75 =$439.
T In the last couple of years my eyes have grown quite weak. Its hard to see them when they get too far out. A biplane is better since I can keep it close in.
One day this will happen to you.
During the time when I wasn't seeing well, I went the other way than you did. I opted for small, slow, colorful electrics. The first was a Tiger Moth 400 from GWS. It's a yellow bipe, could be flown close in, so it was easier to see. I'm still flying electrics, my glow models are mostly gathering dust.
Maybe you should get rid of the big ones and go the other way.
CR
03-29-2008, 02:00 PM
#10
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: San Tan Valley,
AZ
Posts: 5,768
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Electric to Gas convert
I tried those small electrics. I found them too touchy.
Big airplanes react slower. And I can see them better.
I have a 62" Lazy Ace that I converted to electric. It flies nice and easy.The duration is not so good as I can't cram enough cells in it.
With the Extra I have bit off more than I can chew.
Big airplanes react slower. And I can see them better.
I have a 62" Lazy Ace that I converted to electric. It flies nice and easy.The duration is not so good as I can't cram enough cells in it.
With the Extra I have bit off more than I can chew.
03-31-2008, 11:49 PM
#11
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kerrville,
TX
Posts: 2,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Electric to Gas convert
ORIGINAL: dirtybird
I tried those small electrics. I found them too touchy.
Big airplanes react slower. And I can see them better.
I have a 62" Lazy Ace that I converted to electric. It flies nice and easy.The duration is not so good as I can't cram enough cells in it.
With the Extra I have bit off more than I can chew.
I tried those small electrics. I found them too touchy.
Big airplanes react slower. And I can see them better.
I have a 62" Lazy Ace that I converted to electric. It flies nice and easy.The duration is not so good as I can't cram enough cells in it.
With the Extra I have bit off more than I can chew.
CR
04-01-2008, 09:01 AM
#12
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: San Tan Valley,
AZ
Posts: 5,768
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Electric to Gas convert
ORIGINAL: Charley
What kind of batteries are you using? The Lazy Ace ought to hold a pile of LiPos or A123s.
CR
ORIGINAL: dirtybird
I tried those small electrics. I found them too touchy.
Big airplanes react slower. And I can see them better.
I have a 62" Lazy Ace that I converted to electric. It flies nice and easy.The duration is not so good as I can't cram enough cells in it.
With the Extra I have bit off more than I can chew.
I tried those small electrics. I found them too touchy.
Big airplanes react slower. And I can see them better.
I have a 62" Lazy Ace that I converted to electric. It flies nice and easy.The duration is not so good as I can't cram enough cells in it.
With the Extra I have bit off more than I can chew.
CR
BTW I flew the Extra. At 37 oz/sq ft I thought I would have trouble landing it. Not so. I am removing the flaps I installed.
04-01-2008, 05:45 PM
#13
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: honolulu,
HI
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Electric to Gas convert
Aloha All,
Thanks for the discussion. I'm a total newbie to gasoline engines so I may be off base, but even considering A123 cells vice Lipo, it seems that gas still works out better as far as overall cost of operation. I've had some negative experience with chinese crap, so I wouldn't even consider going with cheap electronics for my next project. So considering that, a G-26ei runs around $350. Gas cost Around $3.50 per gallon. a qt of 2 cycle oil is about $3. The comparable electric setup (motor/ESC/uBEC) would total about $350 as well. Then add batteries...the cost of a good 10S liPo pack would be insane, IMHO. A123 is better, but consider this. I can fly a gallon of gasoline every week for a year, and it will still add up to less than the A123 pack.
Am I missing something?
Anyway, what I'm really trying to do is get opinions on 26cc engines, so that I can make an informed choice on which will power the KMP A-1 that I'm saving up for.
I will continue to fly electric for planes .60 size and below. Glow will likely not be a consideration.
More input is always welcome.
Thanks for the discussion. I'm a total newbie to gasoline engines so I may be off base, but even considering A123 cells vice Lipo, it seems that gas still works out better as far as overall cost of operation. I've had some negative experience with chinese crap, so I wouldn't even consider going with cheap electronics for my next project. So considering that, a G-26ei runs around $350. Gas cost Around $3.50 per gallon. a qt of 2 cycle oil is about $3. The comparable electric setup (motor/ESC/uBEC) would total about $350 as well. Then add batteries...the cost of a good 10S liPo pack would be insane, IMHO. A123 is better, but consider this. I can fly a gallon of gasoline every week for a year, and it will still add up to less than the A123 pack.
Am I missing something?
Anyway, what I'm really trying to do is get opinions on 26cc engines, so that I can make an informed choice on which will power the KMP A-1 that I'm saving up for.
I will continue to fly electric for planes .60 size and below. Glow will likely not be a consideration.
More input is always welcome.
04-01-2008, 07:16 PM
#14
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kerrville,
TX
Posts: 2,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Electric to Gas convert
IMO, the cost break point comes when you go over .25 size models. Say, 46" - 48" monoplanes and 40" bipes. After that the batteries start getting insanely priced, unless you shop around. For those who absolutely have to have name brand 25C LiPos, the cost is way up there. I've had good luck with Common Sense and True RC LiPos. Others sneer at them. I use larger capacity batteries at lower C ratings. A few ounces more weight doesn't bother me.
For larger models I agree that gas is the way to go. But you don't have to have EI on your G26. I have one that runs fine on its magneto. I bought a SV 26CC engine out of curiosity. I won't get a chance to run it for 2 -3 weeks but I'll let ya know how it goes.
CR
For larger models I agree that gas is the way to go. But you don't have to have EI on your G26. I have one that runs fine on its magneto. I bought a SV 26CC engine out of curiosity. I won't get a chance to run it for 2 -3 weeks but I'll let ya know how it goes.
CR
04-02-2008, 11:07 AM
#15
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: San Tan Valley,
AZ
Posts: 5,768
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Electric to Gas convert
OK maybe it costs a bit more to go electric for the big models. Even using A123's. What is needed is a reasonably priced HV ESC.
Oh BTW I have a BME 102, a RCS 44B2, a converted Rhyobi, a SVC 26 and three 26cc blower motors ready to convert for sale. PM me if interested. I sold the ZDZ 80 and the Webra Bully I had.
With electric I dont have to put locktite on my bolts, tinker with a Walbro carb, or worry about engine failure on take off. If we had electrics when I was a kid maybe I wouldn't have to spend $1K/yr on hearing aids.
Now if I just can find a solution to wipe those burned up electrons off my airplane.
Oh BTW I have a BME 102, a RCS 44B2, a converted Rhyobi, a SVC 26 and three 26cc blower motors ready to convert for sale. PM me if interested. I sold the ZDZ 80 and the Webra Bully I had.
With electric I dont have to put locktite on my bolts, tinker with a Walbro carb, or worry about engine failure on take off. If we had electrics when I was a kid maybe I wouldn't have to spend $1K/yr on hearing aids.
Now if I just can find a solution to wipe those burned up electrons off my airplane.
04-02-2008, 11:14 AM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Kuala Lumpur, MALAYSIA
Posts: 10,489
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
RE: Electric to Gas convert
If you want a cheap gas engine that performs I say take the DL50! Its half the price of the DA 50 and performs as well, seem them run and if I were not into EP now I would take it without blinking. Oh yes ... EP (above 40 sized) is never cheap, no matter what anyone wants to say. We pay a premium for the novelty and clean running. I got a MidWest CAP 232 on EP running on 10S. Oh yes ... flight time is an issue, you do not get that much per flight or that many in a day.
