DL-50, XYZ-50HP VS. DA, ZDZ AND 3-W ENGINES
01-31-2009, 04:16 PM
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DL-50, XYZ-50HP VS. DA, ZDZ AND 3-W ENGINES
HI, CAN ANYONE GIVE ME SOME ADVISE ON THE LESSER PRICED CHINA ENGINES I SEE OUT THERE; IE: DL-50,,,,XZY 50-HP OR ANY OTHER CHINA 50 SERIES MOTOR THAT COMES TO MIND. WILL THEY START EASILY, HOW BAD DO THEY VIBRATE, HOW MUCH POWER DO THEY HAVE AS COMPARED TO DA, ZDZ, OR 3-W. WHAT TYPE WARRANY IF ANY AND WHO WOULD SERVICE THE CHINA MOTORS IN THE US AND PART AVAILBILITY. ARE THESE MOTORS WORTH THE SAVINGS OR SHOULD I BITE THE BULLIT AND PAY THE ADDITIONAL MONEY FOR ONE OF THE TOP 3 MANUFACTURES. I DON'T FLY ENOUGH TO WEAR AN ENGINE OUT, SO THAT IS NOT A ISSUE WITH ME. I DO HOWEVER WANT IT TO START EASILY AND NOT QUIT IN THE AIR OR LOOSE ANY PARTS.
THANKS BOB KLINE
THANKS BOB KLINE
01-31-2009, 04:51 PM
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RE: DL-50, XYZ-50HP VS. DA, ZDZ AND 3-W ENGINES
a DL50 will perform the same or sometimes better than a DA50R which is twice the price of DL. this is coming from first hand experience. I cant speak for US distributors but as far as I know both got extensive after sale customer support. Both start very easily, perform the same, weigh the same, both are the same size and shape, and both got the same ignition unit internals. (DA has a company logo sticker on the same ignition DL uses). Neither one vibrate out of the ordinary. Parts availability is not an issue for both brands. (DL spare parts are alot cheaper than DA)
I wouldnt buy a DA when I could buy a DL at half the price.
But the XYZ brand engine, which I dont have first hand experience; from what Ive heard and read will start easy, weigh about the same but perform a little lower than those mentioned above. (but its even cheaper than DL50)
As for the 3W engines, again I dont have first hand experience but I got a couple of friends that use 3Ws, and they are very satisfied with their engines.
I wouldnt buy a DA when I could buy a DL at half the price.
But the XYZ brand engine, which I dont have first hand experience; from what Ive heard and read will start easy, weigh about the same but perform a little lower than those mentioned above. (but its even cheaper than DL50)
As for the 3W engines, again I dont have first hand experience but I got a couple of friends that use 3Ws, and they are very satisfied with their engines.
01-31-2009, 05:10 PM
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RE: DL-50, XYZ-50HP VS. DA, ZDZ AND 3-W ENGINES
liquid_TR
The DA ignition is not the same.
The DL50, TOC53, MT57&62, Area 51 all cost about the same, and seem to run well. Use what fits your needs best, the DL50, MT57, and Area51 have the carbs at the rear, the TOC53 and MT50 have reed valves on the side of the crankcase, the MT62 has the carb on the side of the cylinder, all have their + and -. I would stick with the engines I mentioned, they have USA support that works, to buy a engine from China then try to have a problem fixed isn't worth any amount of savings you're going to get.
I have the DL50, MT50, MT57, and MT62 all run fine, the MT57 is the most powerful, but my favorite is the MT62, I like the simplicity of the piston port design.
The DA ignition is not the same.
The DL50, TOC53, MT57&62, Area 51 all cost about the same, and seem to run well. Use what fits your needs best, the DL50, MT57, and Area51 have the carbs at the rear, the TOC53 and MT50 have reed valves on the side of the crankcase, the MT62 has the carb on the side of the cylinder, all have their + and -. I would stick with the engines I mentioned, they have USA support that works, to buy a engine from China then try to have a problem fixed isn't worth any amount of savings you're going to get.
I have the DL50, MT50, MT57, and MT62 all run fine, the MT57 is the most powerful, but my favorite is the MT62, I like the simplicity of the piston port design.
01-31-2009, 09:32 PM
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RE: DL-50, XYZ-50HP VS. DA, ZDZ AND 3-W ENGINES
it's just a matter of money. i think these zenoah, DA, and the like are way over priced. i have a friend who has a DA-50 and it don't run worth a crap. not that they are no good ,they are very good and so is the support i guess. it can happen to any motor for that matter. in these tough times when money is the main consern, and it's only a hobby, these engines seem very nice. i just bought a 50-cc XYZ, and they stand behind their stuff. not as powerful, i grant you but if you need that power, go for the most powerfull motor you can get, no matter what the price. i love power too. was a drag racer for over twenty years.......but can't afford the big bucks any more. there are alot out there just like me..........RON
02-01-2009, 01:17 AM
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RE: DL-50, XYZ-50HP VS. DA, ZDZ AND 3-W ENGINES
You guys forgot RCGF.
3W, ZDZ, MVVS, DA, Taurus, and BME are top of the line in the 50cc class and will last forever but you will pay for that. Amortized over 20 years and that initial higher price suddenly isnt that bad.
The newer imports hav their place with many of them being quite good ffor the dollar spent. I have both RCGF and DL in 100cc sizes and have to say that people are getting quite a bargain with them. I do not expect that I will obtain 1,000 hours of flight time out of either one but the years of use that I do obtain will be just fine for the expense. Both the RCGF and DL 100's are very good in power output. I don't have first hand with the 50's though.
Service for the major brands such as RCGF, DL, XYZ, MT, 3mm (now TMM), and Area 51 is readily available here in the U.S.
3W, ZDZ, MVVS, DA, Taurus, and BME are top of the line in the 50cc class and will last forever but you will pay for that. Amortized over 20 years and that initial higher price suddenly isnt that bad.
The newer imports hav their place with many of them being quite good ffor the dollar spent. I have both RCGF and DL in 100cc sizes and have to say that people are getting quite a bargain with them. I do not expect that I will obtain 1,000 hours of flight time out of either one but the years of use that I do obtain will be just fine for the expense. Both the RCGF and DL 100's are very good in power output. I don't have first hand with the 50's though.
Service for the major brands such as RCGF, DL, XYZ, MT, 3mm (now TMM), and Area 51 is readily available here in the U.S.
02-01-2009, 03:23 AM
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RE: DL-50, XYZ-50HP VS. DA, ZDZ AND 3-W ENGINES
Hi,
Im curious as to why people on RCU keep saying Zenoah's are over priced.
The better quality and well supported Chinese 50cc engines seem to retail between $375 and £399. I've just looked at the Chief Aircraft site for Zenoah prices. A zenoah 45 is $390 including shiiping within the US and a Zenoah G62 is $410 including shipping.
To me the Zenoah prices are just equal to a Chinese 50cc + set of replacement bearings or a bottle of quality 2-stroke oil i.e. incrementally higher.
Like TOM said, all these angines have a place but the difference in build quality between a Zenoah and say a DL50 is very obvious when you look a the two side by side. There is also the point that with engines such as Zenoah you are buying proven reliability and longevity.
As for DA, BME etc.... they are the equivalent of the British Laser glow engines - you buy not just an engine but a piece of unparalleled enginering and workmanship. There are those who will pay for that willingly and make savings elsewhere. I guess it all comes down to what you enjoy spendig your hard earned $'s on.
I would like to understand why people feel that the Zenoah's are relatively over priced.
MSS.
Im curious as to why people on RCU keep saying Zenoah's are over priced.
The better quality and well supported Chinese 50cc engines seem to retail between $375 and £399. I've just looked at the Chief Aircraft site for Zenoah prices. A zenoah 45 is $390 including shiiping within the US and a Zenoah G62 is $410 including shipping.
To me the Zenoah prices are just equal to a Chinese 50cc + set of replacement bearings or a bottle of quality 2-stroke oil i.e. incrementally higher.
Like TOM said, all these angines have a place but the difference in build quality between a Zenoah and say a DL50 is very obvious when you look a the two side by side. There is also the point that with engines such as Zenoah you are buying proven reliability and longevity.
As for DA, BME etc.... they are the equivalent of the British Laser glow engines - you buy not just an engine but a piece of unparalleled enginering and workmanship. There are those who will pay for that willingly and make savings elsewhere. I guess it all comes down to what you enjoy spendig your hard earned $'s on.
I would like to understand why people feel that the Zenoah's are relatively over priced.
MSS.
02-01-2009, 11:19 AM
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RE: DL-50, XYZ-50HP VS. DA, ZDZ AND 3-W ENGINES
PRICE is NOT an issue with us and that is why between myself and my flying
buddy, we have 12 " DL50s " We need a motor that we can count on...
02-01-2009, 12:47 PM
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RE: DL-50, XYZ-50HP VS. DA, ZDZ AND 3-W ENGINES
If price is not an issue why is it there is virtually nobody flying 40% planes with cloned 150's? In the 100cc class there isn't a cloned or new import that yet matches the majors in durability. The new TMM 106 may claim that distrinction but testing isn't complete yet.
We know that the major manufacturer engines will last for years upon years of flying. The latest imports have at most 1-1/2 to 2 years of history to work with so nobody knows what to expect out of them where life cycle is concerned.
Read these engine threads a little more closely and you'll note that price is the predominant issue for most people in them. If price was not an issue people would be asking which is better while adding all the major brand names to the list. Money would not be part of the answers.
We know that the major manufacturer engines will last for years upon years of flying. The latest imports have at most 1-1/2 to 2 years of history to work with so nobody knows what to expect out of them where life cycle is concerned.
Read these engine threads a little more closely and you'll note that price is the predominant issue for most people in them. If price was not an issue people would be asking which is better while adding all the major brand names to the list. Money would not be part of the answers.
02-01-2009, 01:55 PM
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RE: DL-50, XYZ-50HP VS. DA, ZDZ AND 3-W ENGINES
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
We know that the major manufacturer engines will last for years upon years of flying. The latest imports have at most 1-1/2 to 2 years of history to work with so nobody knows what to expect out of them where life cycle is concerned.
We know that the major manufacturer engines will last for years upon years of flying. The latest imports have at most 1-1/2 to 2 years of history to work with so nobody knows what to expect out of them where life cycle is concerned.
I don't know or read of anyone who truely flies a lot or competes and burns 100+ gallons a year who is saying, hey I can save $400 on my engine. The average joe has jumped all over these engines because of price.
Until we see some time where people have burned some serious fuel on them we won't know much. Unfortunately since the majority of the people buying these engines don't burn that kind of fuel , therefore its going to take years for really beneficial feedback.
02-01-2009, 02:13 PM
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RE: DL-50, XYZ-50HP VS. DA, ZDZ AND 3-W ENGINES
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
If price is not an issue why is it there is virtually nobody flying 40% planes with cloned 150's? In the 100cc class there isn't a cloned or new import that yet matches the majors in durability. The new TMM 106 may claim that distrinction but testing isn't complete yet.
If price is not an issue why is it there is virtually nobody flying 40% planes with cloned 150's? In the 100cc class there isn't a cloned or new import that yet matches the majors in durability. The new TMM 106 may claim that distrinction but testing isn't complete yet.
Because there is alot more users in the 20-50cc engine class airplanes. If there was enough demand on bigger planes, there would be better and cheaper solutions for everyone. Afterall, most of the parts of the posh brand engines are made in China anyway. As you can see online, even the 150 USD engines have CNC machined crankcases now..
If I were to buy a 100cc engine today, I wouldnt go for a DA100, I would still go for DL100 at LESS than HALF the price of DA. - and still fly with alot of confidence.
DL brand is a perfect example of how much profit the bigger names are making in the business. And with the glow engines slowly going south with the huge raises in price of glow fuel, and the spread of more reliable and light gas engines, alot of people will go for the cheaper and much more economical gasoline engines.
After that point, those bigger names in the business will have to lower their prices to a reasonable level to continue todo business.
02-01-2009, 02:42 PM
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RE: DL-50, XYZ-50HP VS. DA, ZDZ AND 3-W ENGINES
20-50cc class. That again brings everything back to price. Again, look at the engine threads. The general focus is on engines less than 50cc...because the lower price permits entry into gas engines where it was not affordable before.
Time to fess up and be honest at least with yourself.
Jake,
Timeline/lifecycle testing has been done with a few engines. People do get their money's worth.
Time to fess up and be honest at least with yourself.
Jake,
Timeline/lifecycle testing has been done with a few engines. People do get their money's worth.
02-01-2009, 02:57 PM
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RE: DL-50, XYZ-50HP VS. DA, ZDZ AND 3-W ENGINES
ORIGINAL: Walt and Sage
PRICE is NOT an issue with us and that is why between myself and my flying
buddy, we have 12 " DL50s " We need a motor that we can count on...
PRICE is NOT an issue with us and that is why between myself and my flying
buddy, we have 12 " DL50s " We need a motor that we can count on...
If money/price was no object, I would just have hundreds of DA's, BME's etc. to play with whilst resting on a private beach somewhere in the med, sipping cocktails!
MSS.
02-01-2009, 03:45 PM
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RE: DL-50, XYZ-50HP VS. DA, ZDZ AND 3-W ENGINES
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
Jake,
Timeline/lifecycle testing has been done with a few engines. People do get their money's worth.
Jake,
Timeline/lifecycle testing has been done with a few engines. People do get their money's worth.
Money's worth is hard to define I think. I mean if you are a casual weekend flyer that burns maybe I dunno under 20 gallons a year then I think it's a no brainer. There are tons of great options for the sport flyer and I can't really say you need to buy a top end brand.
However if you fly 30-100 gallons a year I would personally choose a better quality engine.
This is not to say there aren't some good engines out there, you will probably see me with a 100 RCGF sooner than later. However it won't go on my IMAC plane, it will go on something that I can beat on. My IMAC plane will stay with its DA. After a season or 2 and many gallons I would then revisit the issue.
02-01-2009, 03:49 PM
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RE: DL-50, XYZ-50HP VS. DA, ZDZ AND 3-W ENGINES
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
The general focus is on engines less than 50cc...because the lower price permits entry into gas engines where it was not affordable before.
The general focus is on engines less than 50cc...because the lower price permits entry into gas engines where it was not affordable before.
02-01-2009, 07:16 PM
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RE: DL-50, XYZ-50HP VS. DA, ZDZ AND 3-W ENGINES
blw,
We actually agree on something
My thoughts are that the learning curve is the same though. Regardless of size they need to learn about ignition systems, better checks for RFI, etc. Perhaps the heavier hardware required of 28% and up isn't involved but if and when they were to fly either precision or close tolerance aerobatice they soon discover the need for the better equipment.
Jake,
Most every class has been tested.
We actually agree on something
My thoughts are that the learning curve is the same though. Regardless of size they need to learn about ignition systems, better checks for RFI, etc. Perhaps the heavier hardware required of 28% and up isn't involved but if and when they were to fly either precision or close tolerance aerobatice they soon discover the need for the better equipment.
Jake,
Most every class has been tested.
02-02-2009, 08:47 AM
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RE: DL-50, XYZ-50HP VS. DA, ZDZ AND 3-W ENGINES
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
If price is not an issue why is it there is virtually nobody flying 40% planes with cloned 150's? In the 100cc class there isn't a cloned or new import that yet matches the majors in durability. The new TMM 106 may claim that distrinction but testing isn't complete yet.
We know that the major manufacturer engines will last for years upon years of flying. The latest imports have at most 1-1/2 to 2 years of history to work with so nobody knows what to expect out of them where life cycle is concerned.
Read these engine threads a little more closely and you'll note that price is the predominant issue for most people in them. If price was not an issue people would be asking which is better while adding all the major brand names to the list. Money would not be part of the answers.
If price is not an issue why is it there is virtually nobody flying 40% planes with cloned 150's? In the 100cc class there isn't a cloned or new import that yet matches the majors in durability. The new TMM 106 may claim that distrinction but testing isn't complete yet.
We know that the major manufacturer engines will last for years upon years of flying. The latest imports have at most 1-1/2 to 2 years of history to work with so nobody knows what to expect out of them where life cycle is concerned.
Read these engine threads a little more closely and you'll note that price is the predominant issue for most people in them. If price was not an issue people would be asking which is better while adding all the major brand names to the list. Money would not be part of the answers.
Hi Tired , Speaking for Myself and flying Buddy ONLY....
02-02-2009, 09:34 AM
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RE: DL-50, XYZ-50HP VS. DA, ZDZ AND 3-W ENGINES
This is on the DL100 not 50.
A friend of mine has the DL100 and it is running sweet and it only has 4 flights on as of this sunday.
Idles slow, accelarates nicely and pulls like a DA100.
I have DA100's, DA85 and 3w150ts.
I am waiting on the verdict of time will tell, but so far it looks like a keeper.
It was cheaper and included the mufflers for price less than the brand names.
It was a little cold blooded this sunday due to the cold, just took a few extra flips with choke on and a minute in the pits to warm up.
For a budget minded project this may be the ticket.
A friend of mine has the DL100 and it is running sweet and it only has 4 flights on as of this sunday.
Idles slow, accelarates nicely and pulls like a DA100.
I have DA100's, DA85 and 3w150ts.
I am waiting on the verdict of time will tell, but so far it looks like a keeper.
It was cheaper and included the mufflers for price less than the brand names.
It was a little cold blooded this sunday due to the cold, just took a few extra flips with choke on and a minute in the pits to warm up.
For a budget minded project this may be the ticket.
02-02-2009, 10:13 AM
#19
RE: DL-50, XYZ-50HP VS. DA, ZDZ AND 3-W ENGINES
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
We actually agree on something
We actually agree on something
I wasn't saying the perceptions were correct, just that they were the perceptions.
On a side note, it isn't just about gas engines. I'm afraid we are seeing the same thing going on with a guys first jet turbines at our field. You know, it's just a small turbine, not a big jet. The first fireball in the woods and I'm sure our club gets the boot.
02-02-2009, 10:41 AM
#20
RE: DL-50, XYZ-50HP VS. DA, ZDZ AND 3-W ENGINES
ORIGINAL: MSS999
Hi,
Im curious as to why people on RCU keep saying Zenoah's are over priced.
The better quality and well supported Chinese 50cc engines seem to retail between $375 and £399. I've just looked at the Chief Aircraft site for Zenoah prices. A zenoah 45 is $390 including shiiping within the US and a Zenoah G62 is $410 including shipping.
To me the Zenoah prices are just equal to a Chinese 50cc + set of replacement bearings or a bottle of quality 2-stroke oil i.e. incrementally higher.
Like TOM said, all these angines have a place but the difference in build quality between a Zenoah and say a DL50 is very obvious when you look a the two side by side. There is also the point that with engines such as Zenoah you are buying proven reliability and longevity.
As for DA, BME etc.... they are the equivalent of the British Laser glow engines - you buy not just an engine but a piece of unparalleled enginering and workmanship. There are those who will pay for that willingly and make savings elsewhere. I guess it all comes down to what you enjoy spendig your hard earned $'s on.
I would like to understand why people feel that the Zenoah's are relatively over priced.
MSS.
Hi,
Im curious as to why people on RCU keep saying Zenoah's are over priced.
The better quality and well supported Chinese 50cc engines seem to retail between $375 and £399. I've just looked at the Chief Aircraft site for Zenoah prices. A zenoah 45 is $390 including shiiping within the US and a Zenoah G62 is $410 including shipping.
To me the Zenoah prices are just equal to a Chinese 50cc + set of replacement bearings or a bottle of quality 2-stroke oil i.e. incrementally higher.
Like TOM said, all these angines have a place but the difference in build quality between a Zenoah and say a DL50 is very obvious when you look a the two side by side. There is also the point that with engines such as Zenoah you are buying proven reliability and longevity.
As for DA, BME etc.... they are the equivalent of the British Laser glow engines - you buy not just an engine but a piece of unparalleled enginering and workmanship. There are those who will pay for that willingly and make savings elsewhere. I guess it all comes down to what you enjoy spendig your hard earned $'s on.
I would like to understand why people feel that the Zenoah's are relatively over priced.
MSS.
05-13-2010, 10:55 PM
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RE: DL-50, XYZ-50HP VS. DA, ZDZ AND 3-W ENGINES
Here is my 2 pennies. Were the rubber meets the road the DL engines is for the person who does not want to spend unnecessary cash. I can very well afford a DA-50R but Why should I when I can get the same performance from a DL-50. If I were flying 100 gallons a year then I must be a comp pilot, and sponsored in some way. in that case I would gladly spend the extra cash for the DA or have on given to me.
Here is the Last penny this on is kind of funny. I never had an engine last me longer than two years due to the fact that these planes crash at some point and time. I feel so much better knowing its a DL$$$ I am pulling out of the dirt VS. a D*****$$$$.
Here is the Last penny this on is kind of funny. I never had an engine last me longer than two years due to the fact that these planes crash at some point and time. I feel so much better knowing its a DL$$$ I am pulling out of the dirt VS. a D*****$$$$.
05-13-2010, 11:23 PM
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RE: DL-50, XYZ-50HP VS. DA, ZDZ AND 3-W ENGINES
After all this time I have to say the DLE engines, previously DL, are pretty near equal in quality to DA, and that runs all the way up the sizes. A bit higher ip power in some classes. DLE only needs to garner a couple of more years of use on the engines currently ot there to call it even.
05-14-2010, 07:11 AM
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RE: DL-50, XYZ-50HP VS. DA, ZDZ AND 3-W ENGINES
yep i thought i would never buy another china made engine,but the ones at the field run great and never have any trouble (DL50-55).i just bought a package deal from OMP, a Yak55-SP with a DLE55 and got the engine for 300.00.if it last three years with out doing anything to it and runs dependable,i will be 300.00 ahead to stick back into it for anything that it needs.parts seem to be cheap for these engines.
so fare the engine runs great and gets about 300 more rpm's on the same prop then the two DA50's i have.i just rebuilt the first DA i had for ten years and all it needed was a new piston,due to wear at the wrist pin,thats it, all the bearings were just as tight as day one.
i will be surprise if the DLE55 does the same.
so fare the engine runs great and gets about 300 more rpm's on the same prop then the two DA50's i have.i just rebuilt the first DA i had for ten years and all it needed was a new piston,due to wear at the wrist pin,thats it, all the bearings were just as tight as day one.
i will be surprise if the DLE55 does the same.
05-15-2010, 10:22 AM
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RE: DL-50, XYZ-50HP VS. DA, ZDZ AND 3-W ENGINES
We all agree that some of the Chinese motors are now worth a look. As far as Zenoah's go, their pricing is not bad, but they are heavy, and the 62 is just not an option for a 30% airobatic aircraft, nor does the 45 have anyway neer enough power. The next decision is for what application. If out and out power is your requirement, then you need to look at the DLE 55, MT 57, and JC Area 51. If you are happy with 200 to 300 Rpm less, then the 3M 53 is worth a look. Although it is reed valve induction, it's carb is side mounted, which does suite some applications. The other advantage is that it has a 3 bearing'ed crank, where most have 2. This makes it the smoothest running motor in its class - It is noticably smoother. There is a hop up kit for it, which adds a Pyrimid reed assembly, which almost puts it on a par with the other 50's. I have a range of motors (3m53, JC 51, DL 50, MT 57, MVVS 58, ZDZ 50, ZDZ 80 and MVVS 80) They all perform well.
05-15-2010, 10:51 AM
#25
RE: DL-50, XYZ-50HP VS. DA, ZDZ AND 3-W ENGINES
For the life of me I do not know why people keep posting that a Zenoah is not a good 3D engine, They have been around longer than any engine sold today and are bullet prof. Yes they are heavy in the original form but when you install electronic ignition they are within a few ozs of all the others and put out as much power if not more than they do.
As for the AREA 51, I would walk easy there, Have eight engines here needing repair and can not get parts for them, But looks like there is a brother to it coming out, Saw it at Joe Nall, everything on it is the same as the Area 51 but the machining of the case and they are calling it a 55cc, and also a 28cc
Called a REV, Pictures below
As for the AREA 51, I would walk easy there, Have eight engines here needing repair and can not get parts for them, But looks like there is a brother to it coming out, Saw it at Joe Nall, everything on it is the same as the Area 51 but the machining of the case and they are calling it a 55cc, and also a 28cc
Called a REV, Pictures below