mrbigg

My Feedback: (21)

Bob, been using starting fluid for years with no problems. Wish you lived closer, I'd show you in person how it puffs oil smoke right away.

gkamysz

My Feedback: (19)

I've looked at many MSDS for starting fluids while researching for model diesel fuels(for the required ether component). All have some heavy lubricant. WD-40 for starting is probably fine, as long as it starts up right away. When I was young I used WD-40 on bicycle chains, until I found out they wore out right quick, at which time I start using a real lubricant. Stoddard Solvent is easily ignitable and can be used in place of kerosene in model diesels. The lubricant used in WD40 is a low viscosity type, though I wasn't able to find any specific information about what is used.

Bob Pastorello

My Feedback: (198)

I did this and the WD-40 did get it started; acted very "normal" like a choke burp run. Choke off, and we're going. No adverse effects to carb tuning or pumping. Of course, if the fuel dot works loose and falls off, there goes the pressure pulse to the carb. But at least I'll restart easier after it sits during the resultant rebuild .... :-((

The Tee in the pulse line seems "OK".

captinjohn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c85M0Rq1TKE
Watch the video of how engine starts in winter with ice covering the engine. Temp 24 degrees. If you set things right...you do not need starting fluid. Thanks Capt,n

Bob Pastorello

My Feedback: (198)

Well THAT was sure helpful and added to our intelligence. Thank you.

jimcork1

My Feedback: (4)

Just found this thread. Interesting just last week Iwent though this same conversation about difficulty starting gas burners after they had been out of flying for a few months.

The video,, Really made me nervous. UNSAFE wow. Grabbing spinning prop, engine moving when reving, dropping sock into prop, hand right behind the prop very close with no back out room.

One of the guys at the field watched me start a Q52 that had not been run in a while. Ialways run the fuel out of the carb. The "old head" told me not to do that as weedeaters etc don't do it. Guess as Dagwood in the comics would say ,, "makes sense when you don't think about it.

Ok, back to the Q52. After a few mintues of no start Ipulled out my fuel bottle from 1972. You know the plastic with the fold over tip that closes and seals. Isquirted glow fuel (cool power 15%) directly into the carb with throttle wide open, no choke plate on the Q52.

Pulled it over by hand a few times to make sure not hydrolocked. Then cranked and it started up.

The guys comment, never thought about using glow fuel to start a gasser.

After all glow fuel has oil and Nitro. Granted the carb does need to be wet and Iam interested in what is found as a solution but for the current time Iprime with coolpower to get the gassers going after they have been sitting.

Bob Pastorello

My Feedback: (198)

OK, everyone. I did the "WD-40" into the T, that I placed in the pressure pulse line. The engine was cold, and hadn't been started so I figured it would be tough.Closed choke, about 5 flips to a burp run. Then choke off, normal start/run.

So, I don't know. Not real "conclusive", but it seemed better.

Did someone suggest starting fluid sprayedinto the muffler pipe? Anyone?

qldviking

I had the same issues when I lived down south some years ago,  My solution for  storage was to use a fueler for a buggy and a T in the fuel line.  I used to hang my plane too, so when i knew I was finished for the season I'd put the T just outside the carby, leave the main fuel lie hooked up, attach fueler bottle (full of normal fuel) and hang it to gravity feed in,  That ensured my carby never dried out as long as there was fuel in the bottle. I did this with my 3W 80 twin.  Also by having the bottle outside the plane you can keep an eye on it too.  for those that use a T on the carby feed line for fueling can just attach there straight up.

captinjohn

The camera angle made it look real unsafe...but I never really reved it near full at all. I used a super heavy firemans glove that protects very well. Yes the mix of glow fuel with gas is good for starting a gasser or a Glow/gas engine. A heck of a good choke or a squirt prime...and most engines fire right up...even on a very cold day with ice on engine!!!! Capt,n

rodney tanner

I have´nt experienced the problem first hand.
But when I do I think I´ll go for Jake's idea of taking out the plug and applying a squirt of gas.
On a rear carb you could also use (borrow) one of those fuel bottles the car guys use, with a looooooong spout. 

Wasson

Buy a cheap bicycle pump and fit a NRV in the delivery line (it may have one fitted already).

After filling the tank with petrol, attach the pump to the overflow/vent line. Give it 1 or 2 strokes to put a few psi pressure in the tank. Nip the overflow line and plug it with a fuel dot. With the choke applied, the small amount of pressure trapped in the tank will be sufficient to prime the carburettor. Once the engine fires, remove the choke, remove the fuel dot from the tank overflow line and start the engine in the normal way.

I have used a similar method over many years to prime the fuel pump in my YS Dingo F3A models. It also works every time to prime a dry carburettor in a petrol engine.

The method takes a lot longer to describe than it does to do!

Bob

PS:
With both my YS engines and my petrol engines, I actually use the bicycle pump to pressurise my fuel container (to which a small pressure gauge is fitted) and "blow" the fuel into the tank. Simple and foolproof. Saves investing in a more expensive and less reliable fuel pump. At the end of a flying session, if you do believe in removing the fuel from the tank, the system can be used in reverse.

Jake Ruddy

My Feedback: (40)

I am sorry but it has nothing to do with the camera angle. That was just a bad example of how to be around an engine turning a prop, let alone an APC (read sharp composite prop). About the time the prop hit your coat I stopped watching.

I don't care what kind of glove you have on, that's not the way to stop an engine and is a poor example to those who don't know better.


Other than that, the problem is not a cold engine, it's an engine that has been sitting for months and has a dry carb and in this case a rear carb.

RTK

My Feedback: (1)

That is what I would do, and the new starting fluids even add lubricants to the ether.

nonstoprc

My Feedback: (90)

The root cause of the problem is that the diaghram (or pump check valve, under the top plate with one big screw) is stuck to the carb body. Pull the diagphram, wet the side facing the carb body with gas and put it back. This works every time for me.

Gremlin Castle

My Feedback: (14)

Pull the plug and borrow someone's electric and hit it for a few seconds with the choke on. Put the plug back in and go on with your business. It is amazing what a couple hundred consecutive pulses will do to get the carb back pumping.
Been doing this for a long time with some pretty old carbs. It will tell you in a hurry as to whether it is going to be a flyer for the day.

jimcork1

My Feedback: (4)

[quote]ORIGINAL: Gremlin Castle

Pull the plug and borrow someone's electric and hit it for a few seconds with the choke on. Put the plug back in and go on with your business. It is amazing what a couple hundred consecutive pulses will do to get the carb back pumping.
Been doing this for a long time with some pretty old carbs. It will tell you in a hurry as to whether it is going to be a flyer for the day.
[quote]ORIGINAL: Bob Pastorello

Now that really sounds like a good idea

Bob Pastorello

My Feedback: (198)

[quote]ORIGINAL: jimcork1


[quote]ORIGINAL: Gremlin Castle

Pull the plug and borrow someone's electric and hit it for a few seconds with the choke on. Put the plug back in and go on with your business. It is amazing what a couple hundred consecutive pulses will do to get the carb back pumping.
Been doing this for a long time with some pretty old carbs. It will tell you in a hurry as to whether it is going to be a flyer for the day.<img alt=

Not my line to Gremlin Castle, guys.

The "pull the plug" thing assumes non-fully-cowled engine, everything else suggesting doing something to the carb assumes access to the venturi (rear-carb, fully cowled can't get there), so if I have to pull the cowling, I've defeated the whole purpose of this thread which is getting these dry suckers to suck when dry WITHOUT dismantling the nose.

That, as they say, is "The Question"....

Bob Pastorello

My Feedback: (198)

Yesterday, tried the "spray some starting fluid in the exhaust". Sort of worked, made a helluva mess (it's a GREAT solvent for whatever residue is in the exhaust pipe ;-)

Today, will directly inject into the "T" I added in the pulse line after the reed bank. Assume it will either explode, or start easily.
Will report back, unless ya'll hear about it on CNN.

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

If you happen to have some model diesel fuel try that in the exhaust.

Super08

My Feedback: (2)

ROTHLOL

Bob Pastorello

My Feedback: (198)

[quote]ORIGINAL: Super08


ROTHLOL <img alt=

I'm happy SOMEONE is laughing....boy, I sure wasn't. Can you say SUPER FLOODING ???? I guess when it says "one second", that's talking about a car, generator, etc. It was SURE way too much. SO had to do the cowl removal, plug drying, etc., then finally got it dry enough to run. Wow. The starting fluid was a bust for me. At least it didn't explode or catch fire, but I think I'm a few years closer to that shoulder replacement.

UGLY.

Super08

My Feedback: (2)

Wow, quite the story.  Did you try just shooting a squirt of fuel into the reeds through the 't" in the pulse line?

Bob Pastorello

My Feedback: (198)

Yeah....that was one of the EARLY flooding episodes. It takes very little actual gas to make fire/boom....how much that is is tough to tell. After flooding, I wasn't interested in further experiments. This is nuts.

Super08

My Feedback: (2)

The only one of mine I was having trouble with was my MT57. Now that it is getting broke in it is no problem at all. I think it may have been a sticky diaphram that worked itself out. I just took it out today after stting about a month and it fired right up.  I did a full throttle chock for about ten filps, full throttle no choke for 5 flips, 1/4 throttle ignition on and it fired up. Before it was like fI need an act of God after it sat that long to get it running.

krproton

I haven't read through all the posts, so I apologize if I'm repeating something that's already been written, but back to the original question about starting an engine with a dry carb....

Both my 27%Exta and Edge have DL-50s in them. They sat all winter out in my "four-seasons" sunroom which is basically like leaving them outside (almost). The room is not heated, so when it's freezing outside it's also freezing in the sun room. Anyway, Ibasically neglected the planes (engines, batteries and all) all winter. Until I went to fly the Extra last weekend. It started right up like I had flown it the day before and ran perfectly. But yesterday, when I went to fly the Edge, nothing. Wouldn't even kick. So I took the plane back home and removed the cowl. First I pressurized the tank to get fuel to flow into the carb by pressurizing the vent by blowing on it with my mouth (via another piece of tubing). But fuel would not flow into the carb. Then, I connected the line from my fuel can directly to the carb and tried to "force feed" fuel into the carb, but it still wouldn't flow. I took the metal cover off the diaphram and noticed that when I pressed down on the diaphram fuel would flow. So, holding down the diaphram Ipumped a bit of fuel into the carb. Then, she stated right up and has been running perfectly ever since.

So, that's how I started my engine with a "dry"carb that has a stuck diaphram (but I don't know exactly what I'm supposed to do for long-term storage - - not let it sit for months Iknow that!).

And oh, now that Ithink back, here's the difference between the two engines - - the one in the Extra that started right up had been run on Amsol @ 80:1, but the engine in the Edge that had the "dried up" (or stuck?) diaphram was last run on Lawnboy 32:1 as it was still being broken in (but now I've switched over to the Amsol on the engine in the Edge too).