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SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

Old 03-13-2010, 08:20 PM
  #2526  
Scooterpilot
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

MsgtRob

U need a wider runway.....it's tiny.
Old 03-13-2010, 09:25 PM
  #2527  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA


ORIGINAL: Scooterpilot

MsgtRob

U need a wider runway.....it's tiny.
LOL...Flying off the dry lake bed for so long makes this seem tiny...what's really cool is the 150 ft water landing strip right behind me!

Syssa float plane anybody?
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Old 03-13-2010, 09:27 PM
  #2528  
ghoffman
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

Got my ES pipe today! It looks great, superb composite work. How have others constructed the rear mount?
Old 03-13-2010, 10:28 PM
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

We flew TWO Syssas together today in our MonoCoupes. They performed flawlessly. I did have to reset my mixture when the temp climbed to 80 degrees out, but it was perfect again after that. Lots of video taken, lots of fun had by all of us. I'll publish it up as soon as I get it back.
One had inserts, one didn't have them yet. The inserts sound smoother and a bit less raspy, and a little quieter. After well over an hour of running, maybe an hour and a half, my muffler is still tight and solid. The other guys' muffler was starting to loosen up.

A VERY successful day!

~ Jim ~
Old 03-13-2010, 11:46 PM
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

Ghoffman,

Have you seen the belly band style mount that DA sells? It uses two lord mounts and is very nice. Light weight too. I have got to locate my camera!
Old 03-14-2010, 09:35 AM
  #2531  
DamonR
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

PlaneKrazee,

You got me thinking about my IBE, I bought the "WRC Wike R/C Products IBEF Ignition Battery Eliminating Filter - For UNREGULATED LiIon or LiPoly", which I have installed and powered through my regulated receiver. I looked at the installation page, it says it drops voltage 2 volts, so my regulated receiver is at 6 volts, and my ignition is now 4 volts, is this an issue? To get this setup as the manufacturer intended, I need to tee off my battery and supply power directly to the IBE and tee off the IBE to get the signal from the receiver? This will result in 7.4 - 2.0 or 5.4 volts to the ignition.

- Damon
Old 03-14-2010, 09:54 AM
  #2532  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

PlaneKrazee,

You got me thinking about my IBE, I bought the "WRC Wike R/C Products IBEF Ignition Battery Eliminating Filter - For UNREGULATED LiIon or LiPoly", which I have installed and powered through my regulated receiver. I looked at the installation page, it says it drops voltage 2 volts, so my regulated receiver is at 6 volts, and my ignition is now 4 volts, is this an issue? To get this setup as the manufacturer intended, I need to tee off my battery and supply power directly to the IBE and tee off the IBE to get the signal from the receiver? This will result in 7.4 - 2.0 or 5.4 volts to the ignition.

- Damon
It sounds like they are using two diodes in series to drop the voltage.

If you go to either the CH or rxcel webite somewhere it says the ignition will work on a single lipo cell. The lower the voltage (to a point) the lower the current draw of the ignition. A switching regulator with proper filtering will provide the most efficient battery use, allowing a smaller lighter receiver/ignition battery.

If I was to design one of these I would use a switching regulator and set the output voltage .5 volts above the point at which the ignition becomes reliable. There are many off the shelf regulators ready to recieve a signal to turn them on and off and shut off the regulator if the input voltage drops to below 4.5 volts which would save the receiver/servo voltage so you could land dead stick rather than loosing total control. These regulators only need one resistor and a few capacitors installed for regulation and filtering but they cost about $7.00-10.00 by themselves purchased in lots of 1000.

I've used voltage bucking, switching power supplies to power 12V cameras and 9v transmitters from the receiver battery with no interference. These babies were $25.00 each wholesale but only weighed 1/2 oz with the capacitors.
Old 03-14-2010, 10:10 AM
  #2533  
ghoffman
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

Why not ditch the LiPo's and regulator and use a 6.6V LiFe? I just got the 3200mAh LiFe from Hobbico and the entire pack weighs 210 grams, whereas a 700 NiMh weighs 120 grams. The LiFe is regulated to about 5.8 volts in the Syssa IBEC and the Rx and servos work great at 6.6v.
Old 03-14-2010, 11:36 AM
  #2534  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA


ORIGINAL: DamonR

PlaneKrazee,

You got me thinking about my IBE, I bought the ''WRC Wike R/C Products IBEF Ignition Battery Eliminating Filter - For UNREGULATED LiIon or LiPoly'', which I have installed and powered through my regulated receiver. I looked at the installation page, it says it drops voltage 2 volts, so my regulated receiver is at 6 volts, and my ignition is now 4 volts, is this an issue? To get this setup as the manufacturer intended, I need to tee off my battery and supply power directly to the IBE and tee off the IBE to get the signal from the receiver? This will result in 7.4 - 2.0 or 5.4 volts to the ignition.

- Damon
DamonR I think they mean 2 volts under load. In other words, with CDI unit firing away at full revs, the potential the CDI unit sees is 2 volts less than the supply to their IBE, which is a little too much loss. The RCexl CDI Todd uses for the SAP engine still functions okay at 4 volts but not much lower than that. You won't have much room for error. The wike should work fine if the input volts was higher that 6.5 volts, giving some room for error.

As a diagnostic, if you start to hear some misfiring, it's the first place to check. Make sure you check your airborne battery with a 1 amp load to see the correct volts out. If loaded voltage is less than 6V, the CDI may have some problems firing correctly. Your airborne system will not be in any danger tho unless voltage is very low, less than 4 volts. Point is if you hear misfiring you would have plenty of time to shut off the ignition and land safely

The Tech Aero designs IBE also drops voltage to the CDI (they all do BTW) but much less than that. As I discussed earlier, the TAD IBEC is designed with IMAC and Pattern competitors in mind. We can't afford to lose firing pulses. On my prototype unit, Ed reduced the drop to less that 3/4 volts. With a regulated airborne voltage of 6.2 (that's where I run my JR equipment), the IBEC supplies about 5.4-5.5 V to the CDI when the CDI is demanding the most at full revs

The production units that Todd is selling drop the voltage even less than that. To get such small drop, expensive components had to be used with short wire lengths of a larger gauge. The unit costs 10% more than the competitive units but worth every penny. The point here is beware of IBEs that use long wire leads. These drop voltage considerably. Twisting the leads helps reduce EMI-RFI feedback to the RX but at what cost? The SAP IBEC doesn't rely on long twisted leads for filtering. Low V-drop filter pots are designed in.

Keep in mind that 5-6 volt supply to the RCexl CDI is the sweet spot. Supplying the production SAP IBEC with a supply of 6 volts means the IBE will supply around 5.4-5.5 volts to the CDI at full revs.

The point is that Ed Alt the designer of the Syssa IBEC knows what he is doing. He has optimized voltage output and EMI-RFI filtering/shielding for a trouble free unit. Just drop in and play. FWIW2U

Hope this explains a few things. If something isn't clear, please ask

MattK
Old 03-14-2010, 12:28 PM
  #2535  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

Keep in mind that 5-6 volt supply to the RCexl CDI is the sweet spot. Supplying the production SAP IBEC with a supply of 6 volts means the IBE will supply around 5.4-5.5 volts to the CDI at full revs.

MattK
CH said using more than a 4 sell pack is a waste of energy and the ignition will work fine to below 4v.

The Tech Aero designs IBE also drops voltage to the CDI (they all do BTW)
Isn't that the point of the voltage regulator in the circuit, to reduce the voltage below the 6 volt max threshold?

Low V-drop filter pots are designed in.
Opto-isolation, capacitors and or chokes filter noise.

The point is that Ed Alt the designer of the Syssa IBEC knows what he is doing. He has optimized voltage output and EMI-RFI filtering/shielding for a trouble free unit. Just drop in and play. FWIW2U
Ed Alt himself said the unit sold by Todd is only for use with 2.4ghz equipment, a new version with better filtering is in the works.

Each unit made by Wike is set up for a different input voltage range.

This switching unit from TI is almost ready recieve a signal to turn them on and off and shut off the regulator if the input voltage drops to below 4.5 volts which would save the receiver/servo voltage so you could land dead stick rather than loosing total control and only need the addition of a resistor, a few capacitors, servo leads, an led, some shrink wrap and possibly a pic:

http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ptr08100w.pdf

Or a little overkill:

http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pth08t240w.pdf

BTW,

Wike uses diodes to drop the voltage as previously stated.

Old 03-14-2010, 01:05 PM
  #2536  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

rcexl igntion specs:

http://www.rcexl.com/upfile/200994/2...1492067926.pdf

http://www.rcexl.com/upfile/200994/2...1484683186.pdf

They recommend a minimum voltage input of 4.0v and max of 6.0v unless you drop the voltage with a diode or two depending on volts in and also state a greater chance of RFI from the igntion with higher voltage.

Setting the switching regulator output to 4.5v will result in the least amp draw. A regulator can be designed to maintain a constant output voltage regardless of amp draw as long as the current is within spec.
Old 03-14-2010, 08:22 PM
  #2537  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

So about how many mAh's per flight does this IBE use, and which batteries are you using? Any redundancy?

I don't know anywhere near enough about electronics to make a case one way or the other, but my current set-up is extremely lightweight and offers a nice safety margin (also with "fail on" switches), just what one wants in pattern. Maybe a bit of overkill for sport flying, though a nice plane is a nice plane and we all hate to see one go down. I did have a Li-lon go bad last year in my 50cc AW Yak, and the dual redundancy in that instance almost certainly saved a nice plane.

The ONE important thing I do understand about model airplane electronics is that it pays to check batteries after every flight with a load-test meter. I use the No-BS meter with the .5- and 1-amp loads.



Old 03-14-2010, 09:16 PM
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Great weather for flying today, Ran the Sap post hub key replacement. I spent much of the day tweeking the needles, that is until the spinner and prop let go. ALWAYS stand behind the plane when adjusting!! I was following the recommended procedures 10 seconds at idle to full throttle for 5 seconds and listen for drop in rpm and such. Well let me tell you, 3 seconds at high, the rpm dropped and picked back up again and there went the spinner! cracked the cone and dented the wing when the prop landed.

I don't recommend the Syssa carbon fiber cone. The spinner backplate has no cross hatch machining to help hold the prop. The nut and washer up front don'thave any either. Equates to a smooth surface both fore and aft on the prop. Atleast the hub key didn't fail. I took off the backplate and dave brown nut and remounted the Syssa washer and nut with no further issues. I have a graphtech carbon fiber spinner on my DLE55 and have NEVER thrown the prop or cracked anything after 4 gallons of fuel. The quality of the Syssa spinner was not even close to the Graphtech and neither is the price! YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

Ialso had several dead sticks today, something I didn't have the first time flying this engine. I'll need more time tweeking the needles. Otherwise it was a good fly day.
Old 03-15-2010, 05:08 AM
  #2539  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

I have a graphtech carbon fiber spinner on my DLE55 and have NEVER thrown the prop or cracked anything after 4 gallons of fuel.
If the DLE55 is like my DL50, it uses 4 prop bolts so it would be unlikely in any event to throw a prop.

Obviously, the single nut helps keeps the SAP weight low. You are right that it is a little tricky to tighten the prop bolt initially with the smooth front and back plate.

The first couple of times I did it, I made a little "washer" out of a tiny piece of bicycle inner tube to place between the spinner backplate and the thrust washer to give it some grip. Now that the rear of the backplate is slightly rough, this is no longer needed.

Glad you had a good day and are getting the tuning and breaking-in process back under way. I now have 13 flights with my Focus/SAP and am just now starting to get it really dialed in. Takes a while, and there has been the occasional problem, as there will be with any engine. Had a DA50 break two head bolts in flight a couple of years ago, fortunately able to deadstick okay, and DA repaired it no questions asked. That's how I ended up with a DL50 - something to use while the repair was being done - and it turns out to be an excellent engine as well.
Old 03-15-2010, 07:05 AM
  #2540  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

ORIGINAL: MsgtRob

Great weather for flying today, Ran the Sap post hub key replacement. I spent much of the day tweeking the needles, that is until the spinner and prop let go. ALWAYS stand behind the plane when adjusting!! I was following the recommended procedures 10 seconds at idle to full throttle for 5 seconds and listen for drop in rpm and such. Well let me tell you, 3 seconds at high, the rpm dropped and picked back up again and there went the spinner! cracked the cone and dented the wing when the prop landed.

I don't recommend the Syssa carbon fiber cone. The spinner backplate has no cross hatch machining to help hold the prop. The nut and washer up front don'thave any either. Equates to a smooth surface both fore and aft on the prop. Atleast the hub key didn't fail. I took off the backplate and dave brown nut and remounted the Syssa washer and nut with no further issues. I have a graphtech carbon fiber spinner on my DLE55 and have NEVER thrown the prop or cracked anything after 4 gallons of fuel. The quality of the Syssa spinner was not even close to the Graphtech and neither is the price! YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

Ialso had several dead sticks today, something I didn't have the first time flying this engine. I'll need more time tweeking the needles. Otherwise it was a good fly day.
It sounds you are too lean, top, bottom or both. Use a tach to tune the top end and always check the top end after adjusting the lo needle (the low jet on all walbro feed fuel all the time and effects the hi) Rcexl sells a nice cheap but extremely accurate tach that plugs unto the ignition, something Todd should be selling. It will save him lots of warranty work.

Glue two pieces of 220 grit paper back to back and put this between the propdriver and backplate and another between backplate and prop. Are you useing a double nut on the crankshaft? The Biela prophub is wood filled and can crush a bit when tightend.

One thing Todd can do for his customers before shipment is drill and tap the backplate to take two 4-40 cap screws. Then you can install the screws, coat with lipstick, install the prop and or backplate, remove and drill out on the marks to allow for clearance.

I went back and looked at the photos of your plane, very nice. It looks like your ignition pickup is fully advanced, all the way clockwise. Have you checked the ignition timing yourself?
Old 03-15-2010, 07:21 AM
  #2541  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

How does the Graphtech spinner secure to the thrust washer? Would slotting the back plate of the spinner with a Dremel and cut-off disk to match the Syssa thrust washer work?
Old 03-15-2010, 07:47 AM
  #2542  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA


ORIGINAL: PlaneKrazee

I went back and looked at the photos of your plane, very nice. It looks like your ignition pickup is fully advanced, all the way clockwise. Have you checked the ignition timing yourself?
My ignition pickup is the same way. I wondered about the lack of adjustment in that direction, my hope is that it will never need to be adjusted. I have not checked the timing, I don't have super accurate equipment.

I also looked at MsgtRob's photos, neat installation. When I saw all those cable ties, I remembered he works on aircraft, nothing is going to come loose up there.
Old 03-15-2010, 08:44 AM
  #2543  
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

MsgtRob,

My engine started to stall too, and so did my buddy's, it happened just about when the weather started to get pretty warm, probably mid-to-upper 70's. We realized that they had been running with a rich oil mixture and a rich gas mixture for break-in, but we hadn't touched them for about an hour and a half of running from the initial tune-ins.

So we popped our cowls and reset them according to our Syssa manual, and they were right back in razor-sharp tune. I admit, I was worried for a few minutes, but then we decided to adjust them first and then worry later. They tuned right up.

~ Jim ~
Old 03-15-2010, 08:46 AM
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

ORIGINAL: ghoffman

How does the Graphtech spinner secure to the thrust washer? Would slotting the back plate of the spinner with a Dremel and cut-off disk to match the Syssa thrust washer work?
Wow,

I have a steady hand, but I'm not sure if I could be THAT steady! That's some pretty exact work to do that, I would think.

~ Jim ~
Old 03-15-2010, 08:55 AM
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

Good point, I do own a Bridgeport mill so maybe I use that with a 1/16 inch end mill....
Old 03-15-2010, 09:07 AM
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

Oooo...now you're just trying to make me jealous.

It's working.

My nephew has a Bridgeport Mill too, I'm jealous of him as well!

~ Jim ~
Old 03-15-2010, 09:20 AM
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

ORIGINAL: TexasSkyPilot

MsgtRob,

My engine started to stall too, and so did my buddy's, it happened just about when the weather started to get pretty warm, probably mid-to-upper 70's. We realized that they had been running with a rich oil mixture and a rich gas mixture for break-in, but we hadn't touched them for about an hour and a half of running from the initial tune-ins.

So we popped our cowls and reset them according to our Syssa manual, and they were right back in razor-sharp tune. I admit, I was worried for a few minutes, but then we decided to adjust them first and then worry later. They tuned right up.

~ Jim ~
Hey Jim,

So much for gas engines being set it and forget it.

Two weeks ago it was in the low fifties. I had to open the low needle a full half turn to get the transition and high end correct. The last time I had run my DL50 before this it was in the eighties. Opening the low needle allowed me to richen both ends.

The sandpaper trick is what guys flying the BME 110 used. That powerful engine also has a single bolt hub but it was tapped to accept anti rotation screws.

Joysticktx,

Maybe Todd set them up that way so you couldn't advance the timing further. Remember, advancing the timing can give more power but too far advanced it will back fire if lean.
Old 03-15-2010, 09:35 AM
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

OK, what I will try is to set the mill up with a 1/2 inch carbide end mill turned 45 degrees and cut a rectangular pattern in the spinner plate that will engage the Syssa thrust washer. This way it will have a controlled depth (say 1mm ???) and pitch to match the thrust washer and stay balanced. Maybe I do this on the front as well to engage the prop?
Old 03-15-2010, 09:48 AM
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

ORIGINAL: ghoffman

OK, what I will try is to set the mill up with a 1/2 inch carbide end mill turned 45 degrees and cut a rectangular pattern in the spinner plate that will engage the Syssa thrust washer. This way it will have a controlled depth (say 1mm ???) and pitch to match the thrust washer and stay balanced.
That is just over the top to have to modify a spinner in this manner just to make it work with an engine such as this. If the dang Syssa engine had a large enough, properly designed prop driver hub to begin with this problem wouldn't exist. By design, there is very little surface contact area between the drive hub and the spinner backplate due to the deep grooving in the drive hub and its very small diameter. Properly designed single bolt hubs work well on most engine designs with or without spinner backplates. The Syssa would work OK too if it were larger and had a different (smoother with more surface area)machined face.
Old 03-15-2010, 09:50 AM
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Default RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA

ORIGINAL: ghoffman

OK, what I will try is to set the mill up with a 1/2 inch carbide end mill turned 45 degrees and cut a rectangular pattern in the spinner plate that will engage the Syssa thrust washer. This way it will have a controlled depth (say 1mm ???) and pitch to match the thrust washer and stay balanced. Maybe I do this on the front as well to engage the prop?
Gary,

Be very cognizant of the depth you use. The carbon backplate is only about 140 mils thick on a 3" spinner. Don;t go in any deeper than about 010-015". Carbon is extremely strong but has little resilience and can shatter if you compromise too many fibers. Beware

I prefer adding sticky backed medium sandpaper

MattK

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