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which ELECTRIC 6v PUMP to buy for homade GASOLINE fueler??

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which ELECTRIC 6v PUMP to buy for homade GASOLINE fueler??

Old 08-22-2009, 03:51 PM
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mandtra
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Default which ELECTRIC 6v PUMP to buy for homade GASOLINE fueler??

I would like to make myself a couple of Gasoline ELECTRIC fuel jugs , and it seems pretty simple and straight forward. But i'm having trouble finding the electric pump. Is there more than one brand avail? and is one better than the others?
Thanks in advance for the help.
Old 08-22-2009, 07:53 PM
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GreaTOne_65
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Default RE: which ELECTRIC 6v PUMP to buy for homade GASOLINE fueler??

Go to Carquest, ask for an inline gas pump for an automobile. I've got one that's been working for years. I do use an 12v battery though.
Old 08-22-2009, 08:35 PM
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Bob Pastorello
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Default RE: which ELECTRIC 6v PUMP to buy for homade GASOLINE fueler??

I use the Sullivan Smoke pump (although labeled to not be workable), with a 3S Lipo, pumps forever, fast, no leaks, cheap. I've pumped many gallons with mine and no issues.
Old 08-22-2009, 08:50 PM
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Default RE: which ELECTRIC 6v PUMP to buy for homade GASOLINE fueler??

You people just love to twist the tail of the tiger don't you. Sure you will get away with it most of the time. But that one accidental immolation will hurt.
Old 08-22-2009, 08:57 PM
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Bob Pastorello
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Default RE: which ELECTRIC 6v PUMP to buy for homade GASOLINE fueler??


ORIGINAL: dirtybird

You people just love to twist the tail of the tiger don't you. Sure you will get away with it most of the time. But that one accidental immolation will hurt.
Thank you for such insightful and helpful contribution to the posters' question, db. Good show.
Old 08-23-2009, 09:58 AM
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mandtra
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Default RE: which ELECTRIC 6v PUMP to buy for homade GASOLINE fueler??

I also have seen a small all black pump that is on some of the ready made jugs for sale here on RCU. anyone know what brand it is?
Old 08-23-2009, 10:07 AM
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Bob Pastorello
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Default RE: which ELECTRIC 6v PUMP to buy for homade GASOLINE fueler??

Yessir - that is sold by Sig....leaks like a sieve, won't prime. I threw mine away when it started leaking all over the jug one day. [&o]
The Slimline Smoke pump works forever and doesn't leak.
Old 08-23-2009, 10:09 AM
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mandtra
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Default RE: which ELECTRIC 6v PUMP to buy for homade GASOLINE fueler??

BOB, i dont know anything about smoke pumps. Is there only one or is there a certain one i should buy from sullivan ?
Old 08-23-2009, 10:16 AM
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yarom
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Default RE: which ELECTRIC 6v PUMP to buy for homade GASOLINE fueler??



If you want to use the exact same pump used in these $200 plus jugs, it is the following item:

Greylor - PQ-12 (12V, Delrin, HS (4 holes) - VITON - #001-120043) - $62.75

You can run it on 6v or 7.2v - it's a bit too fast on 12v.


Good luck.



ORIGINAL: mandtra

I would like to make myself a couple of Gasoline ELECTRIC fuel jugs , and it seems pretty simple and straight forward. But i'm having trouble finding the electric pump. Is there more than one brand avail? and is one better than the others?
Thanks in advance for the help.
Old 08-23-2009, 11:04 AM
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Bob Pastorello
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Default RE: which ELECTRIC 6v PUMP to buy for homade GASOLINE fueler??

Here's the Sullivan "Field SMoke Pump"....it's what I use for the gas jug. http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXDND3&P=7

The Greylor is "the Cadillac". The Sullivan is the "Hyundai"....

I have a "DIY Gas Pump Jug" article a friend of mine did, he used the Greylor pump. Detailed parts, pics, how-to.
Posted on the main page of my website. www.rcaerobats.net
Old 08-23-2009, 11:39 AM
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Default RE: which ELECTRIC 6v PUMP to buy for homade GASOLINE fueler??

OK you want me to contribute.
I have not seen too may brushless motors used for gas pumps so they are brushed motors. When they run there is little sparks as the brushes make and break contact. When they are shut off the motor becomes a generator. The EMF it generates must go somewhere. It is dissipated in the arc that forms on the switch contacts.
Gasoline is one of the most volatile fluids known. The gas it produces, when mixed with oxygen forms a very powerful explosive mixture. A very powerful bomb now used by the military has a small explosive that disperses gasoline over a large area then sets it off.
Gas pumps in auto tanks are immersed in the fluid and sealed and are in the tank where there are little oxygen. The switch that activates it is located outside and away from the tank.
I hope you are not on the flight line next to me.
Old 08-23-2009, 07:28 PM
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Default RE: which ELECTRIC 6v PUMP to buy for homade GASOLINE fueler??

This is the fuel pump that I have been using, it has been pumping for years, and to dispell any fears from dirtybirdi, it is solid state, no motors, brushed or other wise, and you can't beat the price.http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/P...rnal+fuel+pump, $31.00, and no worries about blowing your head off.

Sorry about the cut and paste.
Old 08-23-2009, 09:41 PM
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Default RE: which ELECTRIC 6v PUMP to buy for homade GASOLINE fueler??


ORIGINAL: GreaTOne_65

This is the fuel pump that I have been using, it has been pumping for years, and to dispell any fears from dirtybirdi, it is solid state, no motors, brushed or other wise, and you can't beat the price.http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/P...rnal+fuel+pump, $31.00, and no worries about blowing your head off.

Sorry about the cut and paste.
You still have to switch it on and off.
Old 08-23-2009, 09:47 PM
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Bob Pastorello
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Default RE: which ELECTRIC 6v PUMP to buy for homade GASOLINE fueler??

None of your comments address the original posters' thread question, db. Can you not stay on topic? Too difficult?

mandtra - sorry you thread has been forced off your question so far. Feel free to PM or email me if I can be of assistance.
Old 08-24-2009, 07:39 AM
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GreaTOne_65
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Default RE: which ELECTRIC 6v PUMP to buy for homade GASOLINE fueler??

The switch I've been using is a push on, push off, it's totally enclosed. Even if it wasn't, as long as the switch isn't enclosed with the can, hanging out in the breeze, so to speak, it's still not going to be a problem, but as long as your scared, you do what you feel safe with. What I have been fueling my planes with has been working for 20 years, just luck? I don't think so, it's knowing how to handle it.
Old 08-24-2009, 10:44 AM
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Default RE: which ELECTRIC 6v PUMP to buy for homade GASOLINE fueler??

OK Bob I'll back off. Its just that I had a friend that got severe burns when his homemade gas can fuel pump exploded in his face. I think he should know what he is messing with. He should know now. I also think you are doing him a disservice by encouraging him.
Old 08-24-2009, 12:41 PM
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Default RE: which ELECTRIC 6v PUMP to buy for homade GASOLINE fueler??

I built mine with a Radio Shack dpdt switch and the Sig Gas Passer pump... running on a 3S lipo... others have had issues with the pump, but mine has run fine for a couple years now...
Old 08-24-2009, 02:32 PM
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Default RE: which ELECTRIC 6v PUMP to buy for homade GASOLINE fueler??

Dirtybird is correct. You need a switch and pump combo that doesn't generate an exposed spark or you have designed a spark plug and an engine that fires once. You might get away with it...forever. But it's not good practice....and it happened to his friend. He's on topic and so am I.
Old 08-24-2009, 04:39 PM
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Default RE: which ELECTRIC 6v PUMP to buy for homade GASOLINE fueler??


ORIGINAL: JoeAirPort

Dirtybird is correct. You need a switch and pump combo that doesn't generate an exposed spark or you have designed a spark plug and an engine that fires once. You might get away with it...forever. But it's not good practice....and it happened to his friend. He's on topic and so am I.
Okay, Joe and db - assume for a moment that we agree that you are correct. Please explain how the vapor density gets to a combustible level in open atmosphere, with ambient normal flying field conditions, wind, etc.....and explain how this explosive vapor forms and REMAINS around the switch location, or the stator of the pump motor, without dissipating??? If you can explain the atmospheric physics that contains the vapor alongside my airplane from a "vent line", and I will become a champion of your science.

Really.
Old 08-24-2009, 05:37 PM
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Default RE: which ELECTRIC 6v PUMP to buy for homade GASOLINE fueler??

Put a candle or a lit cigarette next to the plane when filling it. Move it around until "something" happens.

Let us know which locations were more likely to ignite the vapor.

The problem with gasoline isn't that it is flammable in the open air, it is that the liquid will readily evaporate and reach the combustible vapor density when heated by a flame. Gasoline always makes me wary.

The Sullivan smoke pump is sealed, isn't it? If so that would (could/should) contain any spark from the motor. If it isn't sealed, put some capacitors on the motor like an RC car and then seal the case with silicone. As I recall your switch is mounted inside a PVC box, which should contain any spark from that location. Be sure to plumb the vent line from the plane back into the fuel tank to minimize the amount of escaping vapors, which also keeps gas off the ground (where it kills the grass or destroys the asphalt, depending on the surface).

Those two steps should counteract nearly potential issues.

FWIW I met a guy who was nearly incinerated at work. He was working on a pipeline that was pumping some light aromatic hydrocarbon (I forget which). It was cold outside, he was nearing the end of his shift before going on vacation somewhere warm, and out of laziness (and against company policy) he left his work truck idling when he went to work on a pipe fixture. When he opened a valve he was sprayed with the liquid, covering his hemet and face shield, and his protective clothing. He turned an ran toward the emergency shower and while running, he heard his truck engine idling. His path top the showers took him about 20' away from his truck, and no closer. The vapor from the fluid ignited when it hit his truck (either hot exhaust or something electrical) and immediately engulfed him in a fireball, which then ignited the fluid on his clothing and then his finally skin.

He spent many weeks in a coma and endured many surgeries. More than two decades later he is still alive and works as a motivational speaker preaching the value of safety.

We have the potential for a catastrophic event if we have a) air, b) gasoline vapor, and c) ignition source. Eliminate one and a fire cannot occur. If the electrical system is sealed to contain any and all potential spark sources (motor commutation and back EMF, and at the switch), that will eliminate MOST of the fire potential.

Again the problem is not a combustible vapor forming and remaining around the switches, it is just that the ignition of the vapor will cause liquid gasoline to evaporate into the atmosphere, where it will ignite. The potential risk is extraordinarily high, so we need to be careful with the design (enclose all switches, etc) and take care to be clean and wipe any spilled gas off the plane, pump, fuel can, filling lines, etc.

Finally (and I apologize for this long post) be sure the hook a return line from the vent line back into the tank. Odds are the vapor blowing out the vent line is going to be the source of the problem.
Old 08-24-2009, 05:40 PM
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Default RE: which ELECTRIC 6v PUMP to buy for homade GASOLINE fueler??

Bob, of course Oklahoma is usually windy, so it is quite likely that a "critical mass" of vapor will never be present in your location!
Old 08-24-2009, 06:37 PM
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Default RE: which ELECTRIC 6v PUMP to buy for homade GASOLINE fueler??

Old 08-24-2009, 08:08 PM
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Default RE: which ELECTRIC 6v PUMP to buy for homade GASOLINE fueler??

I've been filling my planes with gravity since 1990, the pump never leaks, never breaks, allways works, what the hell is the hurry anyway? Anyone smoke while filling ther car tank? You get no warning when dealing with explosive atomspheres.
Old 08-25-2009, 12:20 PM
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Default RE: which ELECTRIC 6v PUMP to buy for homade GASOLINE fueler??


ORIGINAL: Tony Hallo

I've been filling my planes with gravity since 1990, the pump never leaks, never breaks, allways works, what the hell is the hurry anyway? Anyone smoke while filling ther car tank? You get no warning when dealing with explosive atomspheres.
That is what I used to when I flew large gas airplanes. Simple cheap and it always works.
BTW Dave Brown sells a simple pump called the six shooter. I also have one of those. It is absolutely fireproof.
Old 08-26-2009, 03:35 PM
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Default RE: which ELECTRIC 6v PUMP to buy for homade GASOLINE fueler??


ORIGINAL: mandtra

I would like to make myself a couple of Gasoline ELECTRIC fuel jugs , and it seems pretty simple and straight forward. But i'm having trouble finding the electric pump. Is there more than one brand avail? and is one better than the others?
Thanks in advance for the help.
Pumps for automotive apps put out a lot of pressure; dangerous. I like the Dave Brown manual Pump. It moves a lot of fuel per turn and seems to last forever. Another way is a pressure system. It has a squeeze bulb, a check valve and a outlet valve. You give it a few squeezes and out comes the fuel until you shut it off. No spark hazards, no battery to charge.


CR

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