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RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Old 07-13-2010, 09:55 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines



MTK,

We are in reverse situations here, I know nothing of the SAP  

Of all the options out there these days, one of the biggest things that sold me on the JC, and now I'll be getting some YDA's, was Henry.  He is on the forums, giving feedback, taking care of any issues (and there have been few) and NEVER making customers feel dumb or getting into petty arguments (at least that I've seen). 

He is just a stand up guy, and to me, that says an awful lot about the product itself.  You'll know them by their fruits type of thing



</p>
Old 07-13-2010, 10:07 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

RW you are right Herny is a great guy. The engines are awesome also lol. I would like to see what a JC or a YD-A does on a pipe. Can you tell us more about your set-up MTK RPMS, pipes that you use, props, etc.
Old 07-13-2010, 11:04 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines


ORIGINAL: plane addicts

RW you are right Herny is a great guy. The engines are awesome also lol. I would like to see what a JC or a YD-A does on a pipe. Can you tell us more about your set-up MTK RPMS, pipes that you use, props, etc.
Plain addicts,

Here's a link http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9794144. You have enough information on this link to get you a great set-up on pipe. Use it for any 26- 32cc engine
Old 07-13-2010, 11:16 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Ok - without risking hijacking the thread back to it's original brands

The YDA's don't need pipes to perform well

Look closely at the videos of the prototypes - especially the 23cc and the 32cc. (I don't have the links but they are posted many times on earlier pages of this thread). None of those planes are fitted with anything other than a standard off the shelf "side dump exhaust diverter". In fact the full origin of the exhaust on the prototypes of the smaller engines is in fact a JC 28 exhaust (why reinvent the wheel when a suitable product was already there for me to use) - it is a standard off the shelf unit as used by many brands - including DLE (same exhaust manufacturer - same basic unit maybe a different bolt pattern).

For a little further information - the Yak55 used in those videos is from the same stable and line of planes as RedwingRC's suggestions (SBach and MX2) - they are a truly GOOD airframe and you will be hard pressed to buy a better airframe in the size (especially with the level of equipment that Redwing supplies with his).

I have flown those same airframes many times fitted with JC 28's (and standard exhausts - no pipe required there either) One thing is for certain - it is not lacking power for any of them.
Old 07-14-2010, 01:01 AM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

The videos are on this page:

http://www.modelaviation.com.au/cata...id=8&chapter=3
Old 07-14-2010, 08:45 AM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Has anyone put a fish scale on the JC 28 to test it's pull? I ask because I was waiting on something in the 30cc range from Henry to put on a Warbird. Then I read somewhere that someone was flying an ESM LA-7 at 17+ pounds on the JC 28 and "everyone thought it was flying on a 50cc". If the JC 28 flies a plane that pudgy it'll definitely fly the Warbird I'm planning at a designed weight of around 13.5 - 14 pounds.
Old 07-14-2010, 11:07 AM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Hey AussieSteve -

I don't think you can technically "hijack" something back - it would just be called taking back control from the hijackers!!  

Cold reboot - the Sbach in the video came to just about 11lbs (the mx2 is just under 10, but the sbach is a bigger fuse plane).  The Sbach has unlimited vertical.  I don't think it would have any problem flying a 14lb warbird with the power it needs. 

there was a post a little back about that warbird (17+ lb plane with the JC).  
Old 07-14-2010, 11:26 AM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Cold Reboot. You are right the JC 28 engine is flying in a ESM LA-7 at 17+ pounds. I know the owner and he loves it. I have not seen the plane fly yet but I did see it when he was building it. I was talking to him a few weeks ago and he said it flys it with authority and has enough power for his liking. That was coming from someone that flys giant scale warbirds with the likes of Moki's in them lol. As for hooking a scale to them I havent but maybe someone will pitch in here that has.
Old 07-14-2010, 11:38 AM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Hello all,
As some of you may know Iam a proud owner of several JC 28's,
Infact the flying of the Yak55 with the YD-A 23cc prototype was done by me.

Once we'd done some of the prototype flying we took it out for even more, better mods and whilst this was going on i was flying it around with a JC28 up front.
All i can say about this motor is that i cannot get to full throttle confidently in a vertical as it rips the plane upwards sooooooo fast that i lose sight of it EXTREMELY quickly!! and remember this plane weighs around 10 pounds! swinging an 18 x6 biella prop!

As for "pull", when Im standing in front of the tail holding the plane it leaves marks in the back of my legs after very short periods of time.
I could probably put a scale on it on friday if you'd like?
Old 07-14-2010, 11:42 AM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Most of you seen this before. It's for the new Guys that haven't read the thread from the beginning.This is a 13.5lb. Cub with a JC-28. 17-8 prop. Lots of drag. Work great in a sleek warbird.
http://www.youtube.com/user/tseres1?.../2/QLihx82XqrI
Old 07-14-2010, 12:12 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines


ORIGINAL: aussiesteve

Ok - without risking hijacking the thread back to it's original brands

The YDA's don't need pipes to perform well

Look closely at the videos of the prototypes - especially the 23cc and the 32cc. (I don't have the links but they are posted many times on earlier pages of this thread). None of those planes are fitted with anything other than a standard off the shelf ''side dump exhaust diverter''. In fact the full origin of the exhaust on the prototypes of the smaller engines is in fact a JC 28 exhaust (why reinvent the wheel when a suitable product was already there for me to use) - it is a standard off the shelf unit as used by many brands - including DLE (same exhaust manufacturer - same basic unit maybe a different bolt pattern).

For a little further information - the Yak55 used in those videos is from the same stable and line of planes as RedwingRC's suggestions (SBach and MX2) - they are a truly GOOD airframe and you will be hard pressed to buy a better airframe in the size (especially with the level of equipment that Redwing supplies with his).

I have flown those same airframes many times fitted with JC 28's (and standard exhausts - no pipe required there either) One thing is for certain - it is not lacking power for any of them.
WOAAA there guy!!! Someone sked a question and I gave him a link. Point is ANY 2 stroke engine can give more output on pipe. If your set-up doesn't need it, great!.

My application demands the power.
Old 07-14-2010, 12:33 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Dont worry about it MTK. I understand what you are asking about the pipes and what not. I know pattern planes run at higher RPMs then most gas engines turn. The JC engines have a ton of power. What type of power and RPM's does the typical pattern plane need. I fly mostly giant scale and have not tried my hand at pattern yet.

Tom
Old 07-14-2010, 02:11 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

ORIGINAL: MTK
Hopefully, when Henry returns, we'll get a look at what the YDA's can do on pipe.
Hey Matt,

The exhaust mounting pattern is the same as DA50/DLE55 and most 50cc class engines so finding a suitable pipe shouldn't be a problem at all.
I have only run those engnes on the stock cans and on Pitts mufflers so I have no experience with them on pipes.
Being ported for max power output at lower revs than many other engines on the market, the tuning of the pipe may be different? Possibly slightly longer pipe?

I haven't played with tuned pipes for years, or not since my pattern days with a Curare 60 on a Rossi 61 and a tuned pipe
I still have the Curare, by the way!
Am I showing my age here?
Old 07-14-2010, 06:23 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines


Ok - here goes - let's see who I can upset today

Tuned pipes
Yes definitley they can improve power when shaped properly, sized properly, installed properly and adjusted correctly. unfortunatley many airframes in the "28cc target size" are not constructed in such a way as to install them easily. This results in a couple of things happening.
1 - the pipe ends up being installed "less than optimally" and power can be lost.
2 - Extra weight is added with no real net gain to the flying ability of the plane.
3 - The torque curve usually ends up being quite a different shape (steeper rise to optimum, narrow peak, steeper drop down again) and optimum torque is over a narrower rpm range (yes - peak torque is higher if the setup is correct).

Either (or both) of 1 and 2 above apply especially more so to the less experienced out there who may see things posted and think it is what needs to be done when the fact is it is not necessarily needed on most of the target airframes.

Pattern Engines
I do have some Pattern Planes in my hanger (2 x OTOP, 2 x Primus, 1 x Phoenix) - mostly YS Glow powered
(and one electric powered).

Gassers are much less common in pattern and here is why.

A - It is exactly as Planeaddicts stated - the power curve requirements are quite different.

B - There are few (if any) gas engines that have the required power to weight ratio to easily meet the 5kg limit in a 2 metre plane and power it in the right range to meet the requirements of the modern higher pattern levels.

"B" is also the reason that I think the lower useful limit of gas engines is around or above 20cc as the power to weight ratio drops significantly below that and increases the wing loading a lot

However - This is a hobby - it is supposed to be fun and we should be allowed to do as we like as long as it doesn't harm others.
There are always exceptions to any thoughts (these ain't rules).

apalsson - yes - age may be showing there but I bet there are plenty out there who would love to have that Curare / Rossi to fly - they were a very nice combo. I crashed mine years ago to make it a total write off (I guess I am showing a lack of skill AND "old age" now)
Old 07-14-2010, 06:47 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Thanks for the run down AussieSteve. I learn something new every day lol. Like I said I fly mostly giant scale and pattern is something that I know very little about other then pattern planes like high RPMs and that the motors usually have tuned pipes. I guess the bottom line is that gas engines are not always suitable for all aplications.
Old 07-14-2010, 08:41 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines


ORIGINAL: aussiesteve


Ok - here goes - let's see who I can upset today

Tuned pipes
Yes definitley they can improve power when shaped properly, sized properly, installed properly and adjusted correctly. unfortunatley many airframes in the ''28cc target size'' are not constructed in such a way as to install them easily. This results in a couple of things happening.
1 - the pipe ends up being installed ''less than optimally'' and power can be lost.
2 - Extra weight is added with no real net gain to the flying ability of the plane.
3 - The torque curve usually ends up being quite a different shape (steeper rise to optimum, narrow peak, steeper drop down again) and optimum torque is over a narrower rpm range (yes - peak torque is higher if the setup is correct).

Either (or both) of 1 and 2 above apply especially more so to the less experienced out there who may see things posted and think it is what needs to be done when the fact is it is not necessarily needed on most of the target airframes.

Pattern Engines
I do have some Pattern Planes in my hanger (2 x OTOP, 2 x Primus, 1 x Phoenix) - mostly YS Glow powered
(and one electric powered).

Gassers are much less common in pattern and here is why.

A - It is exactly as Planeaddicts stated - the power curve requirements are quite different.

B - There are few (if any) gas engines that have the required power to weight ratio to easily meet the 5kg limit in a 2 metre plane and power it in the right range to meet the requirements of the modern higher pattern levels.

''B'' is also the reason that I think the lower useful limit of gas engines is around or above 20cc as the power to weight ratio drops significantly below that and increases the wing loading a lot

However - This is a hobby - it is supposed to be fun and we should be allowed to do as we like as long as it doesn't harm others.
There are always exceptions to any thoughts (these ain't rules).

apalsson - yes - age may be showing there but I bet there are plenty out there who would love to have that Curare / Rossi to fly - they were a very nice combo. I crashed mine years ago to make it a total write off (I guess I am showing a lack of skill AND ''old age'' now)
My interest in the YDA engines is twofold: the low advertised weight and the better mid range torque you folks have been suggesting is a major attribute of the engine line.

Pattern requirements are no longer what they were back in the screaming piped 60's days. It is normal to run less than 8K at full bore and we prefer larger, higher pitched props at 7-7.5 K. Electric pattern runs much lower rpm than that, around 6-6.5K.

If a 38cc-42cc will turn a 19x13 at 7K on pipe, that's my target goal and would be very sporty. Think Q U I E T....electric like noise. That's a main goal also. BTW the ZDZ40 cc chokes on the 19x13 on pipe. Just doesn't have the grunt and weight is high.

Old 07-14-2010, 09:41 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines


ORIGINAL: aussiesteve
apalsson - yes - age may be showing there but I bet there are plenty out there who would love to have that Curare / Rossi to fly - they were a very nice combo. I crashed mine years ago to make it a total write off (I guess I am showing a lack of skill AND ''old age'' now)
Mate, she's yours ! ... but .... you have to come and pick her up
Old 07-17-2010, 08:32 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Today maidened the second YD-A 112 in the Pilot Extra 300. The plane is almost as big as a 150cc plane but we are using the 112. It flys this bird great. Unlimited vertical , hovers at 1/2 throttle. Does any 3D manuver that you can give it. The engine will run better when she it broken in. The blue one in the pic's has about 10 flights and the red one now has two. Our buddy Adam that does extreme 3D was pleased with how they ran and was amazed that the red one only has 2 flights on it and pulls like it does. He flew both and liked the prop better on the red on. They both run Xoar props. Blue one is 27x10 and the red one is the 27x 3db. We found it spools up faster. We will have to do some prop changing when they loosen up. We hope to have videos next week because we have invited more 3D pilots to come take a turn.

All Happy in the Plane Addicts Camp
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Old 07-18-2010, 08:42 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Looking forward to the Vids.
Old 07-22-2010, 05:51 AM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Henry's 2 weeks in Oz. is almost up. Are you guys ready to kick him out of the country yet?[sm=lol.gif]
Old 07-22-2010, 06:04 AM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Shhhhh
You might wake him up and us Aussies need our rest from a raging North American on vacation (I guess that must be a "yes")

He is under very strict orders to have his vacation ("she who must be obeyed") , I KNOW he is having a great time here

I am pretty sure you will get to hear from him real soon

Old 07-22-2010, 01:53 PM
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ORIGINAL: aussiesteve

Shhhhh
You might wake him up and us Aussies need our rest from a raging North American on vacation (I guess that must be a ''yes'')
He is under very strict orders to have his vacation (''she who must be obeyed'') , I KNOW he is having a great time here
I am pretty sure you will get to hear from him real soon
LOL ....... Henry will be here at my place towards the end of next week. Anything in particular you guys would like me to beat him up for?

Old 07-22-2010, 02:18 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Not already having the 38 shipping?
Old 07-22-2010, 02:25 PM
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ORIGINAL: cold_reboot

Not already having the 38 shipping?
hahaha ..... time to build up a sin-register !

Beatup #1 - Where are those 38cc?
Beatup #2 - What the heck are you doing on overseas holidays when people are waiting for their engines?
etc etc ...

I'm already preparing the wet rag to slap him around with LOL
Old 07-22-2010, 02:45 PM
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ORIGINAL: apalsson


ORIGINAL: cold_reboot

Not already having the 38 shipping?
hahaha ..... time to build up a sin-register !

Beatup #1 - Where are those 38cc?
Beatup #2 - What the heck are you doing on overseas holidays when people are waiting for their engines?
etc etc ...

I'm already preparing the wet rag to slap him around with LOL

I would have preferred a tube sock with a couple of oranges in it....but I can understand if you Aussies aren't as prone to violent behavior as us Yanks

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