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RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Old 08-09-2010, 10:25 AM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

All you people raving about 23cc engines need to test one of your latest and greatest against a G23 just before it was modified to a G26..The porting is the same, it runs the sam....ANY test...Only qualification, the 23 has to be EI so the weight will be the same...
The person talking about iignition advance making an engine run better for advertising is WRONG...I just tested a new GT80 race engine with ignition..5 degrees either way from 28 makes almost no measureable difference...If you eant to invent stories about performance at least do some testing....YOURSELF....
Old 08-09-2010, 10:53 AM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Thanks Ralph,confirms my therory of timing is either too high,too low or timed to runs good!
Old 08-09-2010, 11:02 AM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

WOW I'm not sure where that came from Antique? I do know that Henry's 28cc runs strong! And
I'm sure the 23cc will be popular as well. I don't think Henry pushs any bad info on his engines
its mostly straight forward.

Now I know Henry likes what he does and can be a bit optimistic which by the way is what helps
makes him so good at what he does but I believe the new engines will likely be popular and a
success just as the 28cc is! JMO
Old 08-09-2010, 11:24 AM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines


ORIGINAL: Antique

All you people raving about 23cc engines need to test one of your latest and greatest against a G23 just before it was modified to a G26..The porting is the same, it runs the sam....ANY test...Only qualification, the 23 has to be EI so the weight will be the same...
The person talking about iignition advance making an engine run better for advertising is WRONG...I just tested a new GT80 race engine with ignition..5 degrees either way from 28 makes almost no measureable difference...If you eant to invent stories about performance at least do some testing....YOURSELF....
I think the timing reference may be porting timing, not ignition. But I am not certain the advertiser indeed meant porting rather than ignition. That's what I read into it.

Ignition timing changes a couple degrees advanced or retarded won't amount to a hill of beans difference in most applications, as Antique noted.
Old 08-09-2010, 11:34 AM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

In regards to the timing reference, Antique is totally on the money.

[link=http://www.rcaer.com/userfiles/file/RC%20Aero%20-%20Timing%20your%20Engine.pdf]Engine timing - the easy way[/link]

Here is his way of timing an engine and it won't take you more than a minute.
Cheers
Henry
Old 08-09-2010, 11:46 AM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

I'm sorry I must of missed it guys I thought we were talking about the new line of engines coming out!!
Old 08-09-2010, 03:27 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Henry,

Great write-up, thanks for the look inside your walls!

I'm in for at least one of the 23's when they come out, any chance of a mid-range (60ish cc) twin?

Old 08-09-2010, 04:19 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Hey Jerry
I would love to offer a mid 60's twin... We do have an 76cc twin on the books though. No timing on this yet. Our hands are quite full with the single cylinder babies

Cheers
Henry

Old 08-09-2010, 05:08 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Hi Henry,

Hope you enjoyed some of your time in Oz in an official capacity of tourist. Just as double take did you say the 23cc might be out mid to late Sept? Can you say pre-order!

Thanks,
Mark
Old 08-09-2010, 06:09 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Antique is right about the 23cc. This is probably why "the other popular 20cc" is in fact also a 23cc and why the engine I developed was also a 23cc - as Henry noted, the physics of getting the right power to weight below that becomes very questionable.. The G23 was definitley a good engine, no question of it and I still have a saw powered by one (no aircraft though - the distributor of them over here was just not interested in the range being here).

The comment about the advanced timing? I suspect it refers to a different thread and was posted by a person that has 1 - dealt extensively with the manufacturer involved, 2 - actually manufactured complete engines from scratch (apart from ignition and carburetion), and was not talking about just 5 degrees either way - the engine referred to is regularly set by the factory at 45 deg BTDC (even nowadays) and the end users often complain of exactly the symptoms that the OP on that thread was discussing (VERY difficult starting, long term running issues and "bite back" on the props). If it was in fact that discussion that was referred to - I was the poster about the timing and I HAVE done my own research - lots of it. If it wasn't referring to that, - well, most of the above still applies to this thread.

Now back to what this thread is about.
Old 08-10-2010, 08:43 AM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines


[quote]ORIGINAL: Q500RC

"WOW I'm not sure where that came from Antique? I do know that Henry's 28cc runs strong! And
I'm sure the 23cc will be popular as well. I don't think Henry pushs any bad info on his engines
its mostly straight forward."



I think someone posted disparaging remarks about the G23, and Antique responded to it. However, I can't find the post now. Maybe imagined it.
Old 08-10-2010, 03:06 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines


ORIGINAL: Piston

Hello All
Part 1 of 2

The YD Aero Story.....this is the catch up version and what is happening with us now.

Steve and I over have over the last 3 or so years have been working together on a variety of projects, the latest and greatest being the YDA engines.
Steve’s insights and design ability of 2 stroke aero purpose built engines is second to none. When our experiences with a previous engine manufacturer came to a very sad conclusion, he and I both said… why the hell not.. we know we can easily make a better engine and the birth of the YDA56cc and YDA112cc were announced.

For those of you who are reading this for the first time, the YD-A engines are designed and built in Australia. Steve set up his manufacturing facility in Australia to produce engines that have very high quality standards and performance envelopes that are superior. Further, Steve’s manufacturing facility is also certified to ISO 9000, 9001 and 9002 standards. And we succeeded in making the superior engines at an affordable price every time.

The YDA engines excel at producing a torque curve that is superior to most of the engines available now. That is not a brag but a fact. And I know that he and I would happily put these engines up against any current engine out there.
We know that static max rpm is not a measure of the power of an engine. For too long, manufacturers have been using this as the be all and end all measure, and unfortunately, it is believed by too many of us today. Static maximum rpm tells very little about the capability of what an engine can do where they get used – in the mid range area.

For example… I am sponsoring a couple of teams for IMAC and 3D flying - The boys at Plane Addicts ([link=http://www.planeaddicts.com]Plane Addicts[/link] ). These fellas are top grade in my book. They are all gentlemen first and extremely competitive pilots second.
When we started out last year, I was telling them that though the engines will not show the static rpm that they are used to seeing, once the planes are flying all will become apparent of the capabilities of the engines. And it came to be for these extraordinary fellas. They are doing maneuvers that once took a lot of throttle control, but now, they can focus on flying the plane and not managing engines that will sag (if you don’t thumb the throttles continually!)
They are believers. And the YDA engines were designed for this. It was not an accident.

At the same time the YDA engines were being developed and built, Steve introduced me to Kevin from JC engines. JC is an Asian manufacturer of aero engines. Steve was intrigued by Kevin and his factory too. After our experiences with other Asian manufacturers of aero engines, it was hard to convince me that they were not all from the same mold.

Before we met up with JC, they initially produced engines under their nameplate. The earlier JC engine designs did not have benefit of true engineers like Steve or me guiding their development. In fact the early renditions of their engines were significant failures. It was their dealer base that brought these engines up to a par that was and is today considered best in class.

The biggest challenge that the dealers had with JC was communicating with the factory and letting it know the problems. This was a cultural gap, and one that pissed off the dealers, and somewhat sullied the JC nameplate.
It was here then that we met up with JC. Steve was living and working in China and he is extremely well connected to the entire RC industry there. He met up with Kevin and a relationship started. Steve started helping Kevin out with designs, and working to eliminate those nasty “yips” in the engines.

Steve was already into the final designs of the YDA, when he met up with Kevin and started helping him with the JC engines. Steve is like that….
Steve then moved back to Australia and his home base, and started manufacturing the YDA engines at his facility in Australia. In the meantime we were also helping JC get out of their doldrums.
Manufacturing an engine is not a cheap venture. The payback for molds and equipment is long, and there are no guarantees of anything. Steve and I wanted to produce more engines of the YDA heritage, but we knew that costs (especially those in Australia) would be high. This is when Steve approached Kevin and the YDA/ JC link started up.

Our first venture with JC was the 28cc engine. Actually… it was the version 2 of the engine…. Version 1 was designed by JC without our input. Version 2 (our current version) was with our significant input. The version 1 had some design problems and we refused to continue sell them it as it would not have been good enough for the real market. Unfortunately I know this, since I did sell a small number of them early on. I quickly replaced each and every one of these and scrapped the v1’s out. Gee, I did something other manufacturers would never consider doing.... [X(]

Steve transferred a lot of the knowledge from the YDA’s to Kevin and insisted that it be included in all future JC engines if JC wanted us to continue handling the brand. Specifically, high mid range torque, quality, and performance. Over the last year this is what Kevin did with the 28cc engine.
In the meantime, the YDA engines were starting to get a good marketplace foothold. We were making plans for future introductions of engines.

But as life has it, priorities change. Steve approached me earlier this year and wanted to know if I was interested in taking over the manufacturing of the YDA engines. Lock stock and barrel. He wanted to semi retire and get out of full time manufacturing and all the things that go along with it.
Though my spirit is willing, my other business interests are preventing me from this (right now!!). So he and I approached Kevin from JC and made him a proposal.

This proposal was for JC to take over the manufacturing of the YDA engines as an OEM. These engines would be manufactured using the same programs as currently used, and build these engines using the same manufacturing processes and same Quality Control processes as are currently used (that comply with the requirements of ISO9000, 9001 and 9002). The location of the manufacturing is changed… but the designs and processes are still what are being used now.

In other words, we would be directing JC in how to design and build the engines. And this was all agreed to only a couple of weeks ago… (Gee I wonder where I was at the time???? lol)
Over the next 8 months of so, Steve will still be building the YDA engines as JC engines builds up their capabilities. This may also take a shorter time frame…but that is the plan anyways…..
So……. we have a plan of attack.

The YDA engines will be built according to our current design and manufacturing standards by JC Engines. These will be OEM engines built for us by JC.
The YDA name will still be used. We are slightly altering the name to be called YD Aero. (more clarity - but the same heritage lines.)

All the engines that come out of the JC factory and sold in North America will have the YD Aero name plate. JC Engines will still be using their name on engines made for other countries, even though they will be basically the YD Aero engines.
So what about the new engines!!!! Yeah…. OKAY….. since we have the history all laid out now… My next blog entry will be about the new engines coming out….

Henry

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Old 08-10-2010, 03:10 PM
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ORIGINAL: Piston

Part 2 of 2

I hope ya enjoyed Part 1... Here now is the good stuff.......

The New YD Aero Engines

OKAY… the new engines…. we got a couple of them that is for sure….

The YD Aero engines that we will be introducing over the next couple of months aren’t actually new in the sense that the designs are new and just released. Far from it actually.

All these engines were designed and prototyped last December. They have been in constant use for the last 9 months!! They have been flown under all conditions, and yes, most have been crashed. Dumb thumbs and running out of gas seemed to be the big two reasons too!
The engines have been flown by IMAC experts, sport flyers, Sunday flyers, beginners, seniors etc etc. Steve made it a point of letting anyone who could SEE let alone fly the opportunity of flying the engines and garnering their opinions.

From these prototypes, final designs were produced. They were sent to JC Engines for manufacturing according to our standards. These engines are will OEM’d for us by JC.
As all have anticipated, we are coming out with 3 new engines to add to our current lineup.

Right now we have the 28cc, the 56cc and the 112cc. We will be adding the following engines to the lineup.

YD Aero 23cc
YD Aero 38cc
YD Aero 60cc

General discussions first about them. They will all have the following criteria designed and built into them.
1. Best in class performance - these engines have been flying since for many months. They are!
2. Quality components in assembly - Chromed cylinders, high end bearings, RCEXL ignitions, Walbro carbs, NGK spark plugs,
3. Quality assembly techniques - ISO designed assembly processes will be followed.
4. Side dump exhaust systems
5. Rear carb design
6. All come complete with stand offs.
7. Single piston ring design
8. Priced right

YD Aero 38cc engine
Full engine specs will be released shortly. The reason we are waiting is we want to ensure that the prototypes specs are realized or exceeded in the production run engines.
a. Engine weight - 38 ounces
b. Rpm range - 1200 - 10,000 - normal range will be 1200 - 8000 rpm.
c. Prop range - 18/8 - 22/8 9 (yes.. we expect them to fly light 50cc frames)
d. Gas/oil mix - 40:1 - synthetic or organic.
e. Prop attaches with single nut. EASY EASY…

YD Aero 60cc engine
a. Engine weight - 52 ounces
b. Rpm range - 1200 - 10,000 - normal range will be 1200 - 8000 rpm
c. Prop Range - 22/10 - 26/8 (the warplane guys will LOVE these. they are a perfect 80cc single cylinder replacement engine - the mid range torque is amazing).
d. Gas/oil mix - 40:1 - synthetic or organic.

YD Aero 23cc engine
We have not included the drawings yet on this one. We have tweaked the design according to numerous comments received from the guys.
a. Engine weight - 26 ounces (expected)
b. Beam mounted engine
c. Rpm range - 1200 - 12000 - normal range will be 1200 - 9200 rpm
d. Prop Range - 14/8 - 17/8
This engine is the perfect engine for .90 glow size engines to 1.40 glow size engines
e. Prop attaches with single nut. EASY EASY…

Yes.. I will post the pricing matrix soon enough. BUT... these engines will be competitively priced and will have superior performance envelopes throughout their usable rpm range.







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Old 08-10-2010, 06:06 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Well its to bad someone made disparaging remarks about the G23 or any of the zenoah line as they have been a
big part of r/c gas engines for a long while now! And in MHO with alot of success! In fact i'm thinking the JC 28cc
likely has a Zenoah g26 cylinder on it!

Also the post you were talking about may have been deleted by one of the forum moderators.
Old 08-10-2010, 06:26 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

It does, I have a JC28 here.
Apparently it was...Par for the course on RCU...
Old 08-10-2010, 06:36 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

This is just a test. To see if I'm still allowed to post or not.
Old 08-10-2010, 06:38 PM
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Oh good . Carry on. I'm enjoying the comparisons.[sm=thumbs_up.gif][sm=thumbs_up.gif]
Old 08-10-2010, 06:47 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines


ORIGINAL: Tseres

This is just a test. To see if I'm still allowed to post or not.
Hi

Have you been a naughty boy ? Wouldn,t it be absolute torture , if they were able to stop us from going into our workrooms .

Thats it ,.............. life as I know it is over , and I,ll have to speak to my wife !!!!!![sm=47_47.gif][sm=cry_smile.gif][sm=what_smile.gif][sm=angry.gif][sm=confused.gif]

OOOHHHHHH , tell me it,s not true ,................... I,m loseing it ,.................... HELP

Michel


Old 08-10-2010, 08:34 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines


ORIGINAL: michel gravelle


ORIGINAL: Tseres

This is just a test. To see if I'm still allowed to post or not.
Hi

Have you been a naughty boy ? Wouldn,t it be absolute torture , if they were able to stop us from going into our workrooms .

Thats it ,.............. life as I know it is over , and I,ll have to speak to my wife !!!!!![sm=47_47.gif][sm=cry_smile.gif][sm=what_smile.gif][sm=angry.gif][sm=confused.gif]

OOOHHHHHH , tell me it,s not true ,................... I,m loseing it ,.................... HELP

Michel

Yup. I've been bad. I'm good now.


Old 08-11-2010, 04:26 AM
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ORIGINAL: Q500RC

Well its to bad someone made disparaging remarks about the G23 or any of the zenoah line as they have been a
big part of r/c gas engines for a long while now! And in MHO with alot of success! In fact i'm thinking the JC 28cc
likely has a Zenoah g26 cylinder on it!

Also the post you were talking about may have been deleted by one of the forum moderators.
Hi

This was no secret , I knew

Michel
Old 08-12-2010, 06:13 PM
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Sorry for being away for alittle bit. I have been out of town at a big 3D event. The engine is running like a top. I am starting to Bark my break in prop on upline. It wont be long till I need to jump to a diffrent prop size. This engine is awesome. I love the extra low idle and the amount of torque that it produces.
Old 08-12-2010, 06:22 PM
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Steve is right these motors run cooler then others I have ran. I baffled mine like I would a DA and this thing had sub 140F head temps after flight. Blocked off some of the cooling and saw a jump in performace.
Old 08-12-2010, 07:06 PM
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tried to call rc aero but phone "not in service "............any thing wrong???????? bill jensen seems to have been removed from site
Old 08-12-2010, 07:12 PM
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ORIGINAL: Piston

For example… I am sponsoring a couple of teams for IMAC and 3D flying - The boys at Plane Addicts ([link=http://www.planeaddicts.com]Plane Addicts[/link] ). These fellas are top grade in my book. They are all gentlemen first and extremely competitive pilots second.
When we started out last year, I was telling them that though the engines will not show the static rpm that they are used to seeing, once the planes are flying all will become apparent of the capabilities of the engines. And it came to be for these extraordinary fellas. They are doing maneuvers that once took a lot of throttle control, but now, they can focus on flying the plane and not managing engines that will sag (if you don’t thumb the throttles continually!)
They are believers. And the YDA engines were designed for this. It was not an accident.



Henry Thanks for the Introduction and kind words lol. You are right after flying both the JC28 and the YD-A 112 It is hard to fly any of my other birds with XXXXXX named engines in them. Like Henry said I can focus on my flying more then my throttle now. I notice stuff like a lot less throttle management in Harriers and hovering. My IMAC routines are smoother since I do not have to mess with the left stick as much. Like he also told me they do not show the same static rpms as other engines and this was something that I had to get use to with the planes. However, after getting use to the engines I saw exactly what he was talking about with the engines capabilities. Its the differences like pulling into an upline at 1/2-3/4 throttle and the motor just keeps chugging along. Where before I would have to start ramping up my motors going into the uplines to carry me over the top without saging. Another great benefit I have noticed with the 112 is that the noise is lower then other brands of engines. I have people ask me if I have cans on my plane when I fly sometimes. I really like that aspect of the motors since I typically do not run cans for IMAC. This helps improve my sound score. every point counts right

My hat goes off to both Henry and Steve, and I would like to thank you both for the chance to fly these great engines.
Old 08-12-2010, 07:13 PM
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Default RE: RCAero JC Engines & YDA Engines

Double check the number I just talked to Henry the other day all is good over there.

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