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-   -   Let's try again DL-50 (https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/gas-engines-142/5532868-lets-try-again-dl-50-a.html)

Edwin 10-02-2007 06:58 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
1 Attachment(s)
Okey dokey,
Here ya are.
Edwin

Edit - First picture shows the arm and cast piece. The third picture shows the shaft offset.

jrjohn 10-02-2007 07:01 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 


ORIGINAL: Edwin

Okey dokey,
Here ya are.
Edwin

Edit - First picture shows the arm and cast piece. The third picture shows the shaft offset.
I'm not sure whats hitting, I thought I tried to do the same thing years ago, and it wasn't possible. I don't remember why

Bob Pastorello 10-02-2007 07:01 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
Well, that's interesting. Both of mine have BOTH the choke and throttle arms on the same side. Yours seems to have the choke on opposite side from throttle. That solves a dilemma that I wrestled with on my installs, but introduces a new one if you have to flip the carb.

Looks like a carb configuration change to me.

jrjohn 10-02-2007 07:03 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 


ORIGINAL: aerobob

Well, that's interesting. Both of mine have BOTH the choke and throttle arms on the same side. Yours seems to have the choke on opposite side from throttle. That solves a dilemma that I wrestled with on my installs, but introduces a new one if you have to flip the carb.

Looks like a carb configuration change to me.

Bob, look back a couplel posts, he flipped the choke arm around

Bob Pastorello 10-02-2007 07:04 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
::duh::

I thought he flipped the CARB for some reason.

Back in my hole.....

jrjohn 10-02-2007 07:05 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
I'm starting to remember now, I believe a "C" clip on the shaft ends up in the wrong place

jrjohn 10-02-2007 07:06 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 


ORIGINAL: aerobob

::duh::

I thought he flipped the CARB for some reason.

Back in my hole.....

Your half right, he flipped the carb and the shaft.

Bob Pastorello 10-02-2007 07:06 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 


ORIGINAL: jrjohn



ORIGINAL: Edwin

Okey dokey,
Here ya are.
Edwin

Edit - First picture shows the arm and cast piece. The third picture shows the shaft offset.
I'm not sure whats hitting, I thought I tried to do the same thing years ago, and it wasn't possible. I don't remember why
Was it due to the change in the plate location in the throat? That flipping it made it interfere with something in the throat??? I can't recall, honestly, but vaguely remember something...

jrjohn 10-02-2007 07:11 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 


ORIGINAL: aerobob



ORIGINAL: jrjohn



ORIGINAL: Edwin

Okey dokey,
Here ya are.
Edwin

Edit - First picture shows the arm and cast piece. The third picture shows the shaft offset.
I'm not sure whats hitting, I thought I tried to do the same thing years ago, and it wasn't possible. I don't remember why
Was it due to the change in the plate location in the throat? That flipping it made it interfere with something in the throat??? I can't recall, honestly, but vaguely remember something...
I know I spent some time on it and determined it could not be done.


Edwin 10-02-2007 07:18 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
Wow, lots of replys really fast.

Aerobob,
I think so. The C clip doesnt sit flush anymore like it did before I flipped it. I thought I read awhile back that someone had done this before. I may be mistaken, or am I the first. This layout would simplify my install quite a bit, but if I cant do it I can still setup the linkage. Its not a show stopper. If the cast threaded piece can be cut off, I'm good. You can see the collision in the first picture, the back of the arm hits the cast piece with the threads in it. The second picture shows it but not as clear. The third picture shows the shaft offset with the C clip about 1/8" away from the body.

Clear as mud?
Edwin

Al Lewis 10-02-2007 07:18 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
"IF" the only problem is that cast bracket it can be removed with a dremel. It serves no useful purpose in this application. It's cast on there for other (weedeater type) applications. Can't recall for certain but it's either for the air cleaner bracket or the throttle cable retention clamp on a weedeater. In either event, it's extraneous. Are you using a manual choke or servo?


edward cobb 10-02-2007 07:26 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
To all, He removed the choke plate, releasing the choke shaftin the barrel of the carb,removed the choke shaft from the carb. turned the carb 180 deg. and reassembled it. Now reverse it to the way it came from the factory. remove the screw from the throttle shaft ( the one holding the linkage arm) take the linkage arm and rotate it 180 deg. with the engine inverted, the throttle arm should be up and the choke arm should be pointed down.

Edwin 10-02-2007 07:26 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
Just took another look. The other side of the throttle shaft has a collision also. With the choke open the bottom of the ball link threads hits the shaft stop plates on the other end. See picture three left side. I'm sure that could be cut also. But then we run into the problem of going over center. Servo throttle throw adjustment becomes critical at this point. Other comments! I might pass on this mod for this plane since the engine is new and under warrenty. What do ya'll think.

Edwin

I just cant seem to leave things alone.

jrjohn 10-02-2007 07:28 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 


ORIGINAL: Edwin

Wow, lots of replys really fast.

Aerobob,
I think so. The C clip doesnt sit flush anymore like it did before I flipped it. I thought I read awhile back that someone had done this before. I may be mistaken, or am I the first. This layout would simplify my install quite a bit, but if I cant do it I can still setup the linkage. Its not a show stopper. If the cast threaded piece can be cut off, I'm good. You can see the collision in the first picture, the back of the arm hits the cast piece with the threads in it. The second picture shows it but not as clear. The third picture shows the shaft offset with the C clip about 1/8" away from the body.

Clear as mud?
Edwin
If you cut the casting off and push the shaft through until the C-clip lays flush, then your choke plate will not be in the center of the opening. The distance from the center of the shaft to the outside of the carb is different on each side. Also you won't have the ball and spring on this side to hold the shaft in place

Al Lewis 10-02-2007 07:28 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
Well you'll have to pass it on to Walbro because they make all of these carbs and I don't believe they make one specific to this application. Could drive costs way up. John, he could solve that problem by placing a short plastic sleeve over the choke rod between the carb casting and the e-clip to take up the space. If he is using a servo the detent ball and spring would no longer be needed.

Bob Pastorello 10-02-2007 07:32 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 


ORIGINAL: Edwin

Just took another look. The other side of the throttle shaft has a collision also. With the choke open the bottom of the ball link threads hits the shaft stop plates on the other end. See picture three left side. I'm sure that could be cut also. But then we run into the problem of going over center. Servo throttle throw adjustment becomes critical at this point. Other comments! I might pass on this mod for this plane since the engine is new and under warrenty. What do ya'll think.

Edwin

I just cant seem to leave things alone.
I'm sure I'll get unloaded on for this comment, but what the hell?

In my past experience of removing the choke plate attachment screw, those screws have been swaged slightly after being inserted from the factory. Removing the screw permanently damaged the theads in the shaft, resulting in a "false tight" when I reinstalled the screw.

The results were a disaster, and taught me an important lesson.

Maybe this particular carb choke shaft plate screw is not malformed when installed; but maybe it is. I am not of the gambler vein enough to try it again after the first dismal failure.

Sorry to be a downer.... but that's my story and I'm stickin' to it. I still remember the damage to that engine piston, sleeve, and crankcase. Ugly.

Edwin 10-02-2007 07:34 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
I just thought of something, I can use a cover plate off another walbro carb. I have plenty of them sitting around. Thats a pretty generic cover. Still need to look at the other side.
Edwin

jrjohn 10-02-2007 07:35 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 

ORIGINAL: aerobob



ORIGINAL: Edwin

Just took another look. The other side of the throttle shaft has a collision also. With the choke open the bottom of the ball link threads hits the shaft stop plates on the other end. See picture three left side. I'm sure that could be cut also. But then we run into the problem of going over center. Servo throttle throw adjustment becomes critical at this point. Other comments! I might pass on this mod for this plane since the engine is new and under warrenty. What do ya'll think.

Edwin

I just cant seem to leave things alone.
I'm sure I'll get unloaded on for this comment, but what the hell?

In my past experience of removing the choke plate attachment screw, those screws have been swaged slightly after being inserted from the factory. Removing the screw permanently damaged the theads in the shaft, resulting in a "false tight" when I reinstalled the screw.

The results were a disaster, and taught me an important lesson.

Maybe this particular carb choke shaft plate screw is not malformed when installed; but maybe it is. I am not of the gambler vein enough to try it again after the first dismal failure.

Sorry to be a downer.... but that's my story and I'm stickin' to it. I still remember the damage to that engine piston, sleeve, and crankcase. Ugly.
Bob, the screw is defiantly swaged, not to the point of wrecking the threads however, I put red loctite on mine after I took it apart.

edward cobb 10-02-2007 07:36 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here is a before and after picture. Both arms pointing same direction is factory. choke arm down, throttle arm up. This also puts the throttle in a servo pull situation. Factory would be a push.

Al Lewis 10-02-2007 07:39 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
LOL, Okay, Just to give Bob grief, it's called a 'disrupted thread'! LOL But you are absoulutely right. The steel screw will damage the thread while backing out. To what extent you can only determine after doing it but the odds are it is a #2 fit and has quickly become a #3 fit. There are ways to fix it but they are too lengthy and technical to go into here.

jrjohn 10-02-2007 07:40 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 


ORIGINAL: Lou55

Well you'll have to pass it on to Walbro because they make all of these carbs and I don't believe they make one specific to this application. Could drive costs way up. John, he could solve that problem by placing a short plastic sleeve over the choke rod between the carb casting and the e-clip to take up the space. If he is using a servo the detent ball and spring would no longer be needed.
You could be right, however I think you need to have a stop on both sides. The c-clip on one side and the ball and spring on the other. If not, your choke plate gets messed up

Bob Pastorello 10-02-2007 07:40 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here's my DL #1 carb config, courtesy of blue arm idea from jrjohn...

jrjohn 10-02-2007 07:44 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 


ORIGINAL: Lou55

LOL, Okay, Just to give Bob grief, it's called a 'disrupted thread'! LOL But you are absoulutely right. The steel screw will damage the thread while backing out. To what extent you can only determine after doing it but the odds are it is a #2 fit and has quickly become a #3 fit. There are ways to fix it but they are too lengthy and technical to go into here.

I've done several of them with red loctite after removal, You will have a harder time getting the screw out with red loctite than when it was new with the disrupted thread.

Bob Pastorello 10-02-2007 07:53 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
"Disrupted thread"..... glad I know the name.... I'm quite certain that I had NO idea what those brown lumpy things in the yard were called when I was a toddler, but I learned pretty quickly that I didn't like 'em.....

Same with the choke plate removal.
It *may* be able to be done safely by others, but with the risk of failure, and severe engine damage (which absolutely would not be included in warranty, I'm sure), I would never suggest to someone to do it.

To someone who *has* done it (edwin), I'd cough up a few bucks, get a brand new carb, figure out the linkage, and rest easy knowing you don't have a screw that will vibrate loose at a most inopportune time, destroying your engine, and quite possibly your airplane.

I'm old enough to know which battles to fight, and which risks to mitigate, and which to absolutely avoid.

This is the latter....

Edwin 10-02-2007 07:58 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
Moot point now. I decided not to do the change. And yes, it was definately swaged (or whatever) so it got red loctite. I could a swore someone did this before. Anyway, its all back together now and back in the plane. Its going in a GP Yak54 which is just going to be a practice plane for me. The engine could end up in a mustang a year or two from now. Or better yet, two DL50's in a Z P-38. I can hear it now.
Edwin


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