RCU Forums

RCU Forums (https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/)
-   Gas Engines (https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/gas-engines-142/)
-   -   Let's try again DL-50 (https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/gas-engines-142/5532868-lets-try-again-dl-50-a.html)

nmking09 03-08-2007 10:01 PM

Let's try again DL-50
 
I wanted to re-start the recently blocked DL-50 thread. Please, can we keep this on track and stick to the topic of the engine, its quality, and performance.

PlaneKrazee 03-08-2007 10:06 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
Is this engine still offered on Ebay? Or is asking where to purchase it off topic?;)

nmking09 03-08-2007 10:15 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
I killed my zenoah yesterday, so I have been searching e-bay and haven't found one in a while. Peak says it'll be 10days. Just keep your eyes pealed.

Note to self: engines don't run well on carb screws, no matter how good they are, and even if you start them on gasoline. Also, in the piston vs. carb screw battle, the piston ALWAYS looses!!!

bubbagates 03-08-2007 10:28 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 


ORIGINAL: Skypilot_one

Is this engine still offered on Ebay? Or is asking where to purchase it off topic?;)

No it's not.

Off topic in this case is more towards the political, economic and otherwise member flaming and bashing that went on in the other thread.. It's not uncommon for thread to wander now and then but as long as it remains RC related and everyone remains calm cool and collected, the mods will stay out if it and most likely the thread strart will end up with a great thread.

There is a long running thread in the 3D forum on the GP Ultimate. it has strayed came back strayed again and came back and not one time have I ever had to ask anyone to settle down. The very large EF Yak thread was the same way. I think that thread became the largest one ever on RCU but I can remember only one time having to clean it up as again everyone basically kept to the subject and were very nice to each other

fay 03-08-2007 10:37 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
wow.. so many unrelated post on prev thread. In one day I can see few pages but yet not the full review.

does anyone still on the engine and please let us know what the result and as now we still don't know how the longlivity.

About the last thread I saw blood.. and I can guest the mounting was broken.. does it's hurting someone?

nmking09 03-08-2007 10:41 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
Bad mounting job, these are not toys. It really looked like a harmonic oscillation break, induced by an extremely rigid mount. It has convinced me to purchase some stand offs instead of using the supplied mounts.

Xoar 22x8, lawn boy oil 32:1, 40deg F, 300ft ASL, and 7200 rpm.

PlaneKrazee 03-08-2007 10:53 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
Bubba,

I was only kidding.

I could not find a listing for the DL on ebay or Peak. If you click on the 10 day thing it says item not found. I hope I get the one I ordered last week.

bubbagates 03-08-2007 10:59 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
Sorry, I thought you were serious. I'm still a little punchy I guess

Anyway, I seem to remember a few posts in the other thread saying that the ebay sale threads were gone and peak had removed them but 2 days ago peak was 10 days away from getting more

RCIGN1 says he is getting one and I am waiting on his and Boss's results before I decide. Boss did post the pics of the damged one in the locked thread, you can still view them, you just can't add a new post in there

jrjohn 03-08-2007 11:43 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 


ORIGINAL: nmking09

Bad mounting job, these are not toys. It really looked like a harmonic oscillation break, induced by an extremely rigid mount. It has convinced me to purchase some stand offs instead of using the supplied mounts.

Xoar 22x8, lawn boy oil 32:1, 40deg F, 300ft ASL, and 7200 rpm.
Never solid mount any engine to a bench! That was crazy.

John

PlaneKrazee 03-09-2007 12:27 AM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
How are you supposed to mount it?

nmking09 03-09-2007 09:57 AM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
I used wood or something that isn't as rigid as 0.5 inch steel.

Cryhavoc 03-09-2007 11:22 AM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
I just did a search under Toys and Hobbies in e-bay and found 2 people that had sold the DL50 and only one that was doing it as a business, (sylvian1975). They were out of Hong Kong and also selling combo's of the EXTRA 330L ( CMP ) with the DL50 for $640.00 + $150.00 shipping. The plane looks just like the one offered by Nitro Planes. It appears also that he sold 5 of them (for $329.99 + $35.00 shipping) on March 3rd. He also hasn't any feedback, (their total was only 76 - all positive) for any of these purchases probably due to the fact that none of them have had time to arrive as of yet to be tested. What I find more curious is that he isn't offering them for sale at this time.

I'll watch his account for feedback from the people who purchased these engines and I'll contact them directly to get their opinions.

That's about all I could dig up. No reports regarding hands on running of this engine from anyone yet?

UPDATE: I missed another individual, (red_noir) that tried to sell 2 of these from Canada. Neither sold and he has only 11 feedbacks, all positive.

PlaneKrazee 03-09-2007 12:07 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
Cryhavoc,

There is a report above in this thread and several in the closed thread.


nmking09 Xoar 22x8, lawn boy oil 32:1, 40deg F, 300ft ASL, and 7200 rpm
I emailed Steve last night, the guy from ebay and he said he will have more stock in ten days. I also have asked about spare parts this morning but probably won't get an answer until evening do to the time difference.

It is better to wait and sell a properly manufactured engine rather then sell a crappy engine, have customers beotch about it and get a bad name. It could be they are making sure the new production run meets the required quality and specs. The run coming out now is following the Chinese new year. I guess the whole country takes a vacation, Kind of like Christmas vacation here.

My engine is from the other batch and should arrive sometime next week.

PlaneKrazee 03-09-2007 12:08 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
It appears demand is outstripping supply.

nmking09 03-09-2007 12:32 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
I left positive feed back with Steven (sylvian1975) on my DL purchase, and I have conversed with him sence then. He is a very reliable and trust worthy person. Don't hesitate to deal with him!!!

SkyPilot, before I bought mine I asked him the same question and he said that he could get any replacement parts I needed.

frieshoo 03-09-2007 01:38 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
I can't believe someone used the mounts. DL is making a big mistake including them with the engine. I used my DA standoffs.

I have over gallon thru the DL50. It is a little rough at idle. I still think I have an air leak, because I removed the carb, and flipped it 180degrees.... I could have under tighten, or over tighten the carb/intake manifold.

I'm still getting 7000 rpms on a NX 22x8. It's pulling like a mule.

hamman 03-09-2007 02:31 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
I think Ralph has the best idea using flat aluminum then mounting stand offs to that, much like my plan I mentioned in the other thread of using square tubing. The DA type mounts are far better then the extrusions but the problem is that there is too much leverage with the long standoffs and in the event of a crash they will break off the cast tabs on the engine. That guy made a big mistake not to have wood in between the mounts and the stand, also did you notice that he had only 2 bolts in the prop? You have to wonder if the mounting bolts were tight although it appears that the bolts in the broken pieces are tight. I have run about 3 quarts of gas through mine on the stand and 3 flights on my extrusion mounts but they are being replaced soon. Hamman

frieshoo 03-09-2007 02:44 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
Hamman,

Good point about the 'leverage' on the standoffs during a crash. If, and when I crash (and I will crash at some point) :eek:.... I hope my screws pull through the firewall... LOL!!!! I don't think the mounts ears will take much leverage before they break....

One thing about the accident Boss is reporting.... We don't know several things about the setup... Was the prop balanced? Was the engine properly tuned... etc... I feel bad for the guy that got injuried. I have had 3 trips to the ER, and every time it was my fault entirely. Over 100 stitches over a 3 year period...

Antique 03-09-2007 02:59 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
2 bolts through the prop on the test stand is no problem, I run 3W 150s on my test stand with 2 bolts through the prop..The bolt are metric grade 12.9, same as US grade 8...Gotta be TIGHT...They don't break from being in tension, they shear if loose....That's why I like a single 3/8 grade bolt in the middle, no shear, will not break from tension..If it gets loose the prop just spins but won't come off....:D

Bosshossv8 03-09-2007 03:15 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
I do not know all the parameters of the accident. Ecxept that the motor vibration got very bad and it flipped up when the mount was breaking.

They said the motor ran OK, their mistake was the hard mointing....I bet if you used that mount on a plane, and watched it closely...it would be alright...for a while. Any incorrect bolt angle or loose bolt and it would accelerate the failure time. JMHO.

I will use standoffs on mine this weekend. With a balanced prop.

It has been suggested to me that the phots are fake and a setup...accusations from a few people I have a lot of respect for and are friends with.

They are not fake. Two people noticed the different floors in the motor and blood photos...yes ,the bloody photo was taken in a different place...as were others that are not posted.

The motor runs fine, the mounting method and the mount are the problem. No one I know is trying to disseminate false tripe about the motor. I asked If I could post the pictures from the parties involved, to give everyone a heads up.....I am glad they gave me permission, because if I didn't , and someone got hurt, I would feel like dirt.

Now..................................

Next thing on the list ......mouning this to a plane and running it. I am on it........

ANd if this thread gets shut down, it is because someone called names.......save that for the playground boys.............I am interested in one thing....a cheap motor that can be disrespected with impunity.

I am using a DA-50r muffler instead of the DL...why??? Larger diameter output pipe. Iwill ry both....but, I bet the DA's larger diameter will give a better RPM reading after break-in.

frieshoo 03-09-2007 03:21 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
The stock DL muffler is very loud. I might get a DA pitts muffler, if the engine keeps running well.

Bosshossv8 03-09-2007 03:23 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
is it loude rthan the DA?? I cant see how...it has a smaller pipe.

frieshoo 03-09-2007 03:36 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
I've never used a side dump muffler on my DA's, but It's definitly louder than the DA wrap around pitts.

PlaneKrazee 03-09-2007 03:38 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
nmking09,

When I asked about parts I wasn't clear and said he'd be getting engines. I replied again and was much more specific. Waiting on his answer. Below is the corrospondence so far.


Are you going to be getting any more DL50 engines and if so when?

Regards,

Brian


Hi Brian , I will have 10pcs coming and be relist on next week , now just waiting for MFG confirm delivery schedule with me . please take notices my offer . regards Steven


Very good,

What about spare parts and their prices?

Oh, Do you know if they will be making different stand-offs? I heard the Extrusions could break and or have broken.

Regards,

Brian


Hello , the price should be same as before . I sold many this item but didn't heard the stand-offs have problem from buyer . may be I can ask the MFG will they making different stand-offs , thank you for your info and suggestion. regards Steven
Steven,

I am asking about spare part prices and availability. Spare piston, piston ring, cylinder, crankshaft, gaskets, etc. Do you have spare parts, and how much do they cost?

On a website called RCU they show what happened when a mount broke. This is the website that let us in the USA all know about the engine,

Regards,

Brian
My only question is if I need a ring, (maybe Frank Bowman if I send the cylinder), Piston, cylinder, crank, rear case, etc. will there be someone in the US that has or will have parts parts?

Bosshossv8 03-09-2007 04:05 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 


ORIGINAL: Skypilot_one

]

My only question is if I need a ring, (maybe Frank Bowman if I send the cylinder), Piston, cylinder, crank, rear case, etc. will there be someone in the US that has or will have parts parts?

I doubt anyone is supporting these engines, not at least until a U.S. distrubutor picks them up as a line of product, then watch the price raise. And this IS all about the price.....isn't it?

I think we are getitng what we paid for.....and nothing more. There are motor companies that provide the support, with appropriate increases in price.

Buy two....one for spare. I wonder if anyone is going Compete in IMAC with one of these?.......I would use a motor with domestic overnite support if I was in it for the points standings,,,,not something that parts had to gotten from overseas.

----------------------------------------------------------------

waiting for 30 min epoxy to set up on a thrott servo mount.....[&:]

This will be flown in an 87" Yak-54 at about 16lbs 9oz. An old KMP/Ebay Yak.

First prop will be my trusty breakin prop...a Mezjlik 22 x8.




skreamer 03-09-2007 04:08 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
I would like to know about spare parts myself. I'm gonna need them. I maiden flight to day and crashed on take off. Motor was running great and preflight was excellent. Range check excellent. 10 ft of altitudeand the plane rolled right 360 deg. and then nose down hard! Right into the runway. I carried one of my wing bags down the runway with me and the whole plane fit into it to carry home. The aluminum extrusion mount was bent pretty bad no cracks or sign of fatigue. It even has the two mounting ears from the block still bolted to it. I have no worries at all about the mount. I think it is matched to or excedes the strenght of the ears that it is mounted to. Again two ears broke off the cast case and are still bolted to the mount and the other two ears did not break and are still bolted to the mount. The mount is bent up but not cracked. The cylinder has three mushed fins that will probably break off when straightened. I would expect similar damage to any engine that I crashed this hard. I will check about welding the tabs back on and redrilling two new holes. If not spare parts would be great. Well back to the drawing board for me. O, and all you fellas that dont want to use the supllied mount, I'm in need of a new one just send it to me.:)

Bosshossv8 03-09-2007 04:30 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
skreamer ....sorry to hear the bad news............I hope you can get parts. Try Peak as it seems they have at least a direct connection to the factory.

This will be a good (but unfortunate) test for us. I hope you find the cause of the crash. Test that radio gear ....twice.

I am completly expecting RFI when I run this one in my Yak. I had to go to straight batteries (nimhs) in a CH igniton equipped BME .. A Fromeco and Li-ion setup on the CH was making RFI like crazy....straight nimhs made it go away. I still don;t know why.

Same Fromeco /li-ion setup on a DA was clean. So , I am bringing a nimh pack with just in case.

Boo2 03-09-2007 04:58 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 

ORIGINAL: nmking09
I wanted to re-start the recently blocked DL-50 thread. Please, can we keep this on track and stick to the topic of the engine, its quality, and performance.
And finger-chopping capacity. :D

--
Boo

jrjohn 03-09-2007 05:19 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 


ORIGINAL: frieshoo

I've never used a side dump muffler on my DA's, but It's definitly louder than the DA wrap around pitts.
I think your talking about a Slimline pitts? DA doesn't make one that I know of. so when you say the muffler is louder than the DA muffler, we assume your talking about the only muffler they make which is a side dump muffler

John

hamman 03-09-2007 05:32 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
skreamer, I'm also sorry for your loss... I had time this afternoon to fly mine a half hour or so, I did lean the idle a tad and it is running smooth at all RPMs, the warmer temp today was easier on the thumbs!

The Fuji I had in this plane was just as loud so I don't think it's that bad...My amish neibors chainsaws ect. are noisy also, noise is not an issue at my field as long as I don't get too carried away and fly when their having church, weddings, ect...

I have had no RFI issues so far, range tests are great... If this thing keeps running as good as it is now I'm a happy camper! RCIGN1, thanks for the prop bolt comments. Hamman

PlaneKrazee 03-09-2007 05:35 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
Sorry to hear about the lawn dart. Reversed ailerons?

Can you bolt tabs to the case assembly bolt?

I just checked, my engine cleared US customs this morning. Not long now.

jrjohn 03-09-2007 06:00 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 


ORIGINAL: skreamer

I would like to know about spare parts myself. I'm gonna need them. I maiden flight to day and crashed on take off. Motor was running great and preflight was excellent. Range check excellent. 10 ft of altitudeand the plane rolled right 360 deg. and then nose down hard! Right into the runway. I carried one of my wing bags down the runway with me and the whole plane fit into it to carry home. The aluminum extrusion mount was bent pretty bad no cracks or sign of fatigue. It even has the two mounting ears from the block still bolted to it. I have no worries at all about the mount. I think it is matched to or excedes the strenght of the ears that it is mounted to. Again two ears broke off the cast case and are still bolted to the mount and the other two ears did not break and are still bolted to the mount. The mount is bent up but not cracked. The cylinder has three mushed fins that will probably break off when straightened. I would expect similar damage to any engine that I crashed this hard. I will check about welding the tabs back on and redrilling two new holes. If not spare parts would be great. Well back to the drawing board for me. O, and all you fellas that dont want to use the supllied mount, I'm in need of a new one just send it to me.:)
was that a hard surface or grass runway?

jrjohn 03-09-2007 06:05 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
Actually your lucky you were using a DL. Neither a DL or DA would have covered your loss. You can now buy another complete DL engine/ muffler and still not have all the money into it that you would have with a DA :)

john

PlaneKrazee 03-09-2007 06:43 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
And now you are the US stocking distributor for internal parts and ignition.:):)

Bosshossv8 03-09-2007 08:27 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
Skreamer....

After you can look at it again..I know it takes me a while to go back to a pile....hey that rhymes..

Take the plug out , and turn her over and check to see if the crank got tweaked/bent. I wonder how tough the crank is.

I mean that is certainly a lot harder than a propstrike...but just fro reference.

But, I know me,...it takes a while to go back to a pile.[:@][:@]

gotta get back to the re-fit....almost done.

skreamer 03-09-2007 10:05 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
Skypilotone, I dont think that would be possible as the carb will probably make extensions verry thin. Also the rear case is cracked through under the cylinder.

Jrjohn, hard pack dirt. I bought a used wood 22x8 msc that met its end on this flight. Thankfully it was not the carbon fiber that is due in on monday. $46 whew!
Yes at this price I can afford to buy another which my WIFE pointed out as she told me to quit whining about my broke motor and plane. 2 for 1 is always a good deal.

Bosshov, crank looks good checked with dial indicator side and front but I'm no machinist.

Skypilotone, Distributor Ha Ha hahahahahahahahahahahahh.

Sent message to Peak about back plate cylinder, gasket, muffler, and mount (have not had one donated yet?). I will keep you guys updated on what i hear back from them. Always happy to be the guinnypig and take one for the team and all that.[:@]

I disassembled back plate, mount,carb, and cylinder in about 15 minutes. These engines are so simple. If I can get parts should only take a few minutes to reassemble. [8D]

By the way the cylinder looks excellent and has no visible wear. Engine internals were very clean and tight.

PlaneKrazee 03-09-2007 10:40 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
You may have to buy the whole case as a matched set but I'm probably wrong. It would be nice to have a US distributor and I don't think the price would have to go up too much. The people selling them now are making a profit. If you could make $100.00 on each engine and be happy you could probably sell them for the same price.

What do we really think the factory is selling them with the ignition to the retailers for now? $125.00? $145.00? Or less? What addes to the cost of may products is the distributorship. They mark it up 100% over the manufacturer and then the retailer marks it up another 50%. But if the distributor sells it direct they get 150%. Not bad ay. Remember you can buy a 47cc pocket bike racer from a US distributor for $179.00.

captinjohn 03-09-2007 10:53 PM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
I wonder if a 3/16 alminum plate between lugs and round aluminum or maple standoffs would have prevented lugs to break? A hole would needed in plate for extension to carb. Capt,n

Bosshossv8 03-10-2007 12:12 AM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 


ORIGINAL: captinjohn

I wonder if a 3/16 alminum plate between lugs and round aluminum or maple standoffs would have prevented lugs to break? A hole would needed in plate for extension to carb. Capt,n

It would go a long way to making it harder to break, Titanium would be best, ha ha. But certainly any kind of plate, would decrease the risk of tab breakage in a hard propstrike/nose over.


Looking forward to running this engine tomorrow....right before I test fire, I will take a static timing check on her.

CF MEjzlik 22 x 8 will be her first prop.

Ok, break timeover....back to the bench.


roalddogge 03-10-2007 05:58 AM

RE: Let's try again DL-50
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hello !

Finally, finally I could have the maiden flight on my WM extra with DL50. Conditions were not perfect and we had to go to another place than our club field. I did not fly it myself as I am struggling with back problems and did not feel fit enough, so one of the club mates took the honors.

Both Extra as the DL are locally bought here in Xi'an, China, where I am currently located.

Engine behaved perfect, although still running rich. It had about 3 hours on the stand before and still felt tight. It was running smooth and reacted well on adjustments. No problem with starting except one time when it was hot and got flooded. I feel it was more my own fault as I was priming a lot. After that no problem at all.

now the data:

altitude: 1350 ft
temperature: 10 degrees C (50F)
stable idle at 1750 rpm
6900 with 22 x 8 wood JXF, this was before 1st flight. After that it went noticeable up after some adjustments

As you can see on the pictures I used the standard mounting and had no problems, but have ordered some custom made standoffs.

Although the Extra is not the lightest plane for 80 inch (7,5 kg) the performance was great. It went in the air after just a few meters. Hoovering at half throttle was no problem from performance side. I am quite happy with this combo.

I did however found a way to improve the gasflow capacity of the exhaust. During the 4th flight the end cap came loose !! Obviously the welds were grinded too much. When new it did already look not too good. In fact the exhaust and the mounting stands are the only parts not looking perfect. I noticed that there are FAG bearings used which are not the worst type you can get.

I hope that I can have some more flights on it next weekend.


Roald


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:45 PM.


Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.