2.4 , BME vs First Place Engines?
 

A little help here, BME more hp.
FPE, us made & cheaper, less hp.
I'm flying at 5000 feet.
14 lb. kangke waco bi-plane
What would you buy?
Don Dever [email protected]

RE: 2.4 , BME vs First Place Engines?
 

the fpe runs great but has the ring ends in center of exhaust port. also attatches prop with one tiny 1/4 about size nut. however my buddys runs impressivly well. between those two-----bme.

RE: 2.4 , BME vs First Place Engines?
 

FPE customer service (or just plain old advice) is outstanding. They are made in Pennsylvania and aren't going anywhere. As far as power, you have to give them a chance. They take several gallons to fully break in. I don't think I have ever fully broke one in, in the first season, unless you bench run it first. They just keep getting stronger. Their ignition is strong and durable. My vote is for the lesser know FPE.

RE: 2.4 , BME vs First Place Engines?
 

try BCMA Engines SPE line. I'm real happy with mine. Great price and power

RE: 2.4 , BME vs First Place Engines?
 

You are not going to buy a new BME unless he has suddenly opened up shop again.

RE: 2.4 , BME vs First Place Engines?
 

I have a Kangke waco bi-plane with a Saito 170R3 which powers it nicely, but I'm switching to all gas. I just got a good deal on 6 MT62s, so one of them is going to go into it. I followed the thread they had on it a year or two ago, I seem to be the only one that didn't strengthen the landing gear, you may want to do that, B&B makes a thing that holds 1/4" rod for extra strength.

RE: 2.4 , BME vs First Place Engines?
 

Definitely buy the FPE. I have two, a 3.2 and a 4.2. Both engines run good and if you need help, Kurt at FPE is readily available. FPE doesn't get much "press", like some other engines but they are excellent engines. One reason they don't get the press is that Kurt is not out front on the forum pumping his engines as some other engine mfgs are. That's just not his style, IMO.

On the other hand, I followed a thread on BME regarding the absence of customer service and unresponsiveness from the owner. The thread was finally closed down couple weeks ago. I personally would not own a BME.

Just my opinion.

RE: 2.4 , BME vs First Place Engines?
 

The BME was a nice engine but may no longer be available as new. Essentially the same engine as the BME, but currently available, is the Brillelli. The advantage of going with the Brillelli is the high level of support that's available should it ever be needed. That's something important to keep in the background when purchasing any engine. BME apperars to no longer be providing support, where FPE is a bit slow in this area. When was the last time you saw a representative from FPE or BME posting in an engine forum?

RE: 2.4 , BME vs First Place Engines?
 

I have personally talked with Kirt at First place, a very friendly and knowledgeable man. Call him up some time and ask him about oils. He has done his own studies on the subject. Very interesting. He may not spend a lot of time on the internet watching forums (he has little free time), but he is at the other end of the phone when you need him, and he is the guy building and or rebuilding your engine after you put it in. I would rather talk to the guy as he is holding my engine, than type anyway. Don't sell this short. We are losing touch with the one-on-one direct, verbal, non 'moderated' communication, in todays society. Slow..........he can turn an engine around in a matter of hours once he has it, if you tell him it is needed that bad for some reason.

RE: 2.4 , BME vs First Place Engines?
 

The man didn't ask about the Brillelli but the BME vs. FPE. But as long as you introduced it, I also have two Brillellis and in my experience, FPE is faster as far as service turnaround is concerned. I sent my 3.2 FPE in for new bearings and got it back quickly...I don't remember how many days but quicker than I expected, maybe two weeks.

RE: 2.4 , BME vs First Place Engines?
 

I don't want to get this too far off topic... but I felt this needed a response.

Can't comment on the 25 issue... that hasn't been made in awhile and I dont know anything about parts availibility.

As far as your experience in the last month I can tell you Scotts motherboard on his laptop went about 3 weeks ago. He was completely down for a few days while I helped him recover data and get everything (emails, contacts, and invoicing system) onto a new system.

RE: 2.4 , BME vs First Place Engines?
 

Thank you ljones. You may have finally provided the impetus I've been looking for. I'll leave this gentleman with the superior knowledge and ability you've managed to develop with two engines:eek:

If you want a BME, be prepared to buy used. If you want an FPE, then place the order. There are other selections out there based on a superior design that would provide you with better performance and longevity for about the same cost. Mr. Jones can fill in the blanks. I spend too much time on the net....[:'(]

RE: 2.4 , BME vs First Place Engines?
 

Jake, I'm glad you told me that because Scott didn't elaborate on what his problems were, he simpy told me things had been crazy and he couldn't remember what it was I needed. A young entrepreneur trying to establish a toehold faces many challenges, no doubt.

Pat, I'm certainly no expert but I do own two of each of these engines and feel I am in a position to provide some insight. We all have our crosses to bear, I sometimes tend to be too blunt or tell it like it is when silence would be preferable. You tend to preach too much and your "superior" knowledge comes across as arrogance.

RE: 2.4 , BME vs First Place Engines?
 

Seems I remember something about the FPE 2.4 gaining about 500 rpm by going with a CH syncro spark ignition as opposed to the stock Ridge Ignition. The extra revs would be beneficial at the higher altitudes or at any altitude for that matter.;)

RE: 2.4 , BME vs First Place Engines?
 

Seems like this BME vs First Place engines is kinda a debate that gets RCU viewers to verse one another. Maybe the best thing is not to start what verses what. It just gets old fires going. My 2 Cents. Capt,n:eek:

RE: 2.4 , BME vs First Place Engines?
 

They come with the CH ignition now

http://www.fpengines.com/html/24.htm

I know it's not on your list but it would be at the top of mine.
For 125 bucks less you can this engine which would pull a 14lb plane way better then a 40 will
I just ran one up after a crash repair and on 6 different runs it turned a pro zinger 22x8 at 7200 rpm that's great power for $375
and it's based on a very popular poulan 46cc engine so even if Brillelli goes away the parts will still be there for a long time

http://www.brillelli.com/brillelli_engines_011.htm

RE: 2.4 , BME vs First Place Engines?
 

When people are asking about engine selections where there are numerous choices in the same displacement I try to give them as much information as possible to avoid excluding something that may be better or equal than the one or two choices they threw out. In this case there was only one choice since BME may not be there for the customer later, if even now. Those up to date with the current engine market are well aware of this. Those not up to date toss BME into the selection pool, which is another reason other engines were suggested. The way you presented the BME engine line could have easily been construed as being an inferior product, which they most certainly are not. Too bad they appear to be seeing the end of their time. The Brillelli was suggested because it's a very close match to the BME, providing the same power and reliability as the BME, at nearly the same weight in the smaller sizes. Both are from the same basic starting point, but Brillelli has had to shift over to Poulan products due to a lack of Echo product availability, just as BME would have to do should he resume production. The end result doesn't change because Poulan, like Echo, is one of the high end products.

FPE, Brison, and Fox are for all intents and purposes the same engine in their various displacements. All would perform well. Any engine that places the ring ends in a position to cross over a port unsupported should be avoided. Too much ring and piston damage occurs in a very short period in that situation. I don't know that FPE does that but it's worth checking out. Since you own two of each you should be able to report back yea or nay on the subject in short order.

Now if changing to a CH ignition suddenly ups the rpm output it would be worth the time to try retiming the engine using the current ignition system. Just set the sensor position to fire the plug at 28-30 degress btdc. It's very easy to have an engine leave a shop with the timing set a few degrees off, reducing the rpm output. Try it before you buy a different ignition. BTW, it makes no difference to me what engine, plane, servo, radio, etc., someone purchases as long as it performs to the expectations of the buyer. That's what keeps people coming back to the hobby and moving forward in their experience, knowledge, and ability level. To obtain a product that does not meet expectations or fails the test of time, causes discouragement, often turning a hobbiest away from something they would have immensely enjoyed had things worked out properly.

I don't see anything arrogant in this post at all. If you believe having as much information as possible available to make an informed decision is being arrogant, so be it. I'll leave this thread now.

RE: 2.4 , BME vs First Place Engines?
 

Yes, the Ridge Ignitioned engines came out with retarded timing ... sort of a compromise between idle / starting and top end performance ... but top end suffered considerably. Easily fixed with a timing change or better yet .... change to a more standard CH ignition. Its good that FPE decided to make the CH standard.

I have flown (2) different 4.2 FPE engines quite extensively and other than size they're built pretty much the same as other FPE engines. One thing I really don't like about the FPE engines is their use of quite small replaceable prop studs. The 2.4 uses a 1/4" prop stud, larger engines use a 5/16" stud. These are common small glo motor sizes. Repeated prop removal seems to gaul up the rather soft stud threads making it difficult to tighten or remove the prop. Maybe a minor problem when someone else has it, but when you have the problem, better have a replacement stud handy. Its a problem that I wish FPE would address by redesign and resizing the studs to the more common 3/8" or 10 MM that other engines use. Good engines otherwise.

RE: 2.4 , BME vs First Place Engines?
 

This is a no brainer- the FPE of the two asked about. If it was my plane, I would be looking for a 50cc engine because of the weight and the extra drag of a bipe. Alot of people use the 40cc engines on this plane and like them so they must fly the plane decent. I like a little extra though. Good luck on your choice.

RE: 2.4 , BME vs First Place Engines?
 

What set me off is the general statement that FPE is slow providing support. The statement raises more questions than it answers and, in my opinion and experience is totally inaccurate. Questions like, Pat, how many FPEs do you own and what happened? Were they slow responding to you or was it just something you heard at the field? Or maybe you read it in a forum? Was this first hand experience or just some gossip on the internet? You have the impression they are slow, so what gave you that impression when my impression is just the opposite? A statement like that, unfounded, can be damaging to the reputation of FPE, a good company IMO and without some reason for being said is unfair. That's just how I see it, no offense. As for the question about the rings, I'll leave that to the "experts" because I don't know. I've never looked at the rings but I've never had a problem with them. I will relate one time on the 3.2 my throttle servo died and the throttle was stuck open. Stupid FPE didn't know about the servo so it continued to run wide open. I flew the plane wide open for 20 minutes plus without a single hiccup until it ran out of gas. I was impressed.

One other thing I'll say about Scott at Brillelli. I'm an early riser and one Sunday morning I was up at 5:30 and sent Scott an email to ask some question, I don't remember what. To my utter amazement, I got a reply within about one minute. So I emailed back and asked Scott what he was doing up so early (even earlier in Minnesota) and he responded he hadn't yet been to bed and was just "catching up on some things". He's one hardworking dude but I can tell his plate is full.

RE: 2.4 , BME vs First Place Engines?
 

I agree with this statement. Well said. Although I don't have first hand experience with Brillelli like I do with FPE, they are both family owned USA businesses and as such, you are dealing with the 'factory' when you talk with them. This can not be understated, or taken for granted. These guys are not only salesmen, but are also technicians, engineers, manufactures, and I would say, experts in their fields, or they couldn't do what they do. They also have a vested interest in providing good customer support, and do. But they are still just individual humans, and need a little understanding at times. I hope these types of companies can continue to do well here in the USA.

RE: 2.4 , BME vs First Place Engines?
 

Although I have not "owned" an FPE engine, that does not by any means imply that I have not worked with them. There are few engines or engine manufacturers that have not had their product pass though my hands at one point or another. That includes products that have never, and will never, make it to the general r/c market. I just wanted to clear the air on that since not all of the engines I've worked with have been intended for r/c specific applications . I don't know if you're aware of it but quite a few engines aren't limited to r/c applications and are used in other so called "industrial" applications, so personally owning one does not limit a person to having experience with them. Without going into details, numerous engines are bought and tested via an "independant" buyer to determine performance and suitabiltiy for an intended application. FYI, few make the grade.


I just wanted to clear the air on the implication that I do not own a FPE engine. I don't need to own one to use one. They are nice engines, but I stand by the statement that the FPE, Brison, and Fox engine lines differ primarily in cosmetics, not in mechanicals. A couple other manufacturers would have been included in the group had they still been in production.

RE: 2.4 , BME vs First Place Engines?
 

Wait, I believe the question was about your remark about slow support. Don't stop, finish the response.

Best wishes,
Dave Olson

RE: 2.4 , BME vs First Place Engines?
 

Wasn't directed at me but I might comment on my experiences. Have made several calls to FPE and they (He, the owner) always answered the phone and provided good answers to my questions. One 4.2 was sent in for crankshaft bearings and the work was performed very quickly and at a reasonable cost. So, I guess I'm satisfied with the support I have had from FPE. Now about that prop stud issue ..... maybe minor in many peoples eyes but something I don't like about FPE engines.

Best question about any engine is whether I would buy another FPE product. Answer: yes if the particular engine fit my application.

RE: 2.4 , BME vs First Place Engines?
 

Awww screw it. Ya'll don't want to hear it anyway.