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-   -   SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA (https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/gas-engines-142/8862472-syssa-30cc-gas-made-usa.html)

RPool 02-10-2010 12:55 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
does anyone have a copy of the mounting diagram showing stand-oof placement. Can you post the diagram here? Thanks!

cmoulder 02-10-2010 02:03 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
1 Attachment(s)


ORIGINAL: RPool

does anyone have a copy of the mounting diagram showing stand-oof placement. Can you post the diagram here? Thanks!
Below pdf.

As usual, print with "page scaling" off. To make sure it's correct, two of the stand-off bolt holes are 42mm from center, the third one 31.5mm.

splais 02-10-2010 03:08 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
OK, I meant choke plate. [>:]

Scooterpilot 02-10-2010 09:39 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
MsgtRob


Are you flying it at 110th and J?

MsgtRob 02-10-2010 09:51 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 


ORIGINAL: Scooterpilot

MsgtRob


Are you flying it at 110th and J?
That's the plan.. we should see 77 degrees Sat and Sun and I here 80 for Monday.
BUt I need to finish the plane so best get to work...
Maybe I'll see you out there

PlaneKrazee 02-10-2010 10:31 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 


ORIGINAL: Truckracer



ORIGINAL: captinjohn



ORIGINAL: splais

I believe that in the end Todd is eventually going to have to go with a different version of the Walbro carb. I haven't raised the issue with him yet; but originally I thought I really like the carb. That was because of it's cool look rather than any performance issue. I've now found that the carb is a constant source of aggravation. You have to be very careful not to bend it or missalign it. My engine will start and run with the plate closed. And basically I just think (personally) it's an unnecessary funky design; but time will tell and it is simple to operate once setup.
I was just wondering....how do you ''bend'' carburator?
I think he is talking about the choke plate, not the carb.
I think Todd could machine that carb to take a standard choke rod nd butterfly but he'd have to make a jig, buy the parts and assemble it all which would take a huge amount of time. I think he went with that carb because of the accelerator pump.

PacificNWSkyPilot 02-10-2010 10:43 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
I'll be bringing my Clip-Wing MonoCoupe to our club meeting tomorrow night. I finally got all the details done on it so that it can be shown in public. That was a ton of work.

I was talking about bringing it to the meeting a few hours ago, and a couple of the guys all said "NAH!... Bring that SYSSA for us to see!" I explained that's what is powering the Coupe, so they told me to make sure I bring the tools for taking the cowling and prop off.

****SIGH****

Well,.....okay then.......:eek: But the plane really IS nice....REALLY it is.......

splais 02-10-2010 10:58 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
Yes, there may be good reasons he went with that carb in spite of the choke design; not because of it, or just by chance.

PacificNWSkyPilot 02-11-2010 08:09 AM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
I believe Todd designed and added that choke plate. I just don't have any real issues with it like I'm reading about here. The important thing for this is to take your time installing the linkage so you have a perfectly straight throw and a good seal. And that really wasn't that hard and did not take that long. Like any good installation, attention to detail makes all the difference..

I spent some time pulling on the linkage with a little stress to this side and to that side to see what effect it would have, and it DID unseal it when the pull was not straight, for sure. But there is a zone where it stays sealed up pretty well. It didn't take me that long to figure out what I'd be shooting for when I ran the linkage wire to it.

pgmeyer 02-11-2010 08:53 AM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
Choke question -
Ok, I did not realize the choke does not have a 2 position detent - it is spring loaded to stay open. How can you set up a manual choke to start the engine? If you have to hold it closed and flip the prop? Very confused over this. My other engines just let you leave the choke closed until the motor pops, then open it and they start with a couple more flips. How do you folks start this motor/set up the choke?

Thanks

JNorton 02-11-2010 09:06 AM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
Pull the choke out and rock the prop.
John

PacificNWSkyPilot 02-11-2010 09:07 AM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
I just put a couple of "bumps" in the wire where it goes through the wall, and those are friction points to hold it at each position.

captinjohn 02-11-2010 09:29 AM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
Mot likely the choke is ok the way it is. It is up to the operator "you" to learn how to use it. If you are in a cold climate ,you got more to learn. Try this with choke fully closed...flip until engine fires. Next set Idle trim to a high Idle position. Open choke about 1/8 inch. Now flip engine over & when it starts...it should stay running. If you would have opened the choke all the way or too much..it would most likely quit as soon as the extra rich mixture was burned up. Having the right amount of choke on & the little faster idle speed will generally keep the engine running so it can warm up. As it warms up you can open choke fully. This takes a little pratice & each engine brand is a touch different. In warmer weather you will not need as much choke on to keep engine running on cold start-up. I wish I had a dollar for every time I started many kinds of small engines....I would be a millionair! Capt,n

splais 02-11-2010 09:57 AM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
1 Attachment(s)
On my plane the choke rod is a 2-56 pushrod running out through the bottom of the fuselage. I drilled a very small small hole just big enough for the rod. When I pull the choke closed there is just enough friction to hold it. I have no idea what I would do if I had to "hold" it closed, which would be a completely unsatisfactory method.

I don't have it in front of me; but I believe Todd's engine manual has a suggested "ignition off" starting method where you hold the choke closed and turn the prop back and forth to prime, the turn on ignition and flip.

jbdismukes 02-11-2010 10:33 AM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
You would think there were enough "Old F***s" around who remember how to start an engine with manual choke!

captinjohn 02-11-2010 10:39 AM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
[quote]ORIGINAL: splais

I have no idea what I would do if I had to ''hold'' it closed, which would be a completely unsatisfactory method.


[/quo
If you had no Idea on what it would do...how can you say it is a unsatisfactory method???? When rocking back in forth you may prime it enough to fire in cold weather, and then quit. When you choke it with ignition on & it fires it draws more fuel in & the chance of the engine to stay running if done right will be better. A manual by Todd or anyone cannot cover all the ways of starting a engine under all temps...ect. You people that have a heck of a time starting engines need to try every method there is & when you find it..it will be a snap. But first you got to be a little open minded. ......:eek:




Syssa Aircraft 02-11-2010 11:02 AM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
Actually, it is not too difficult to use the choke in the ignition off position.

With the throttle open, rock the prop back and forth between compression areas until you hear it squish.
Bring the throttle down to just above idle, turn the ignition on and flip. I should start right away.

Turning the engine over does not really do much more than rocking the prop. All you need to do is make the piston go from bottom dead center to top a few times. Whether you go through the compression part does not really gain you anything.

When we test run brand new engines here, we do the same thing and the test rig has the fuel tank about a foot below the carb, purposely to check for fuel draw. I have to make a video soon.

splais 02-11-2010 11:08 AM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
Thanks Todd. I didn't state it very well. My comments were directed toward flipping the engine with the ignition on AND trying to manually hold the choke closed; a very unsafe process at best.

Syssa Aircraft 02-11-2010 11:12 AM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
oh yes...not safe.

And in my earlier writing I forgot to add, pull the choke closed while you rock the prop...sorry.

ol_seabee 02-11-2010 11:14 AM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
The correct way to start a gas powered model airplane engine is to set the throttle to idle (or 1-2 clicks maybe)

close choke

turn engine ignition on

And flip until the engine fires.....

Then open choke and flip a couple more times until engine starts... All of my high quality gas engines start the same way and with a wood prop at idle.... they stay running once they start


http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9483730/tm.htm

captinjohn 02-11-2010 12:02 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
Turning the engine over does not really do much more than rocking the prop. All you need to do is make the piston go from bottom dead center to top a few times....Is what Todd or whoever said. Here I disagree. Flipping the engine over brings more air/fuel into engine wetting down bearings ect that give lube to where it is needed on start-up. Been there done every possible type of startup. Also I have people that want to buy my used engines instead of buying a brand new one. Smooth Landings, Capt,n;)

Outlw36 02-11-2010 12:07 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 


ORIGINAL: ol_seabee

The correct way to start a gas powered model airplane engine is to set the throttle to idle (or 1-2 clicks maybe)

close choke

turn engine ignition on

And flip until the engine fires.....

Then open choke and flip a couple more times until engine starts... All of my high quality gas engines start the same way and with a wood prop at idle.... they stay running once they start


http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9483730/tm.htm

Sorry but the instructions Todd listed are the CORRECT way to start it with this carb. Works great and fast and safe. Kinda foolish to post as if he is giving wrong info if you have no hands on time with the engine in question. Todd makes the engines, and he definately knows the CORRECT way to start em.

cmoulder 02-11-2010 12:21 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

ORIGINAL: Outlw36



ORIGINAL: ol_seabee

The correct way to start a gas powered model airplane engine is to set the throttle to idle (or 1-2 clicks maybe)

close choke

turn engine ignition on

And flip until the engine fires.....

Then open choke and flip a couple more times until engine starts... All of my high quality gas engines start the same way and with a wood prop at idle.... they stay running once they start


http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9483730/tm.htm

Sorry but the instructions Todd listed are the CORRECT way to start it with this carb. Works great and fast and safe. Kinda foolish to post as if he is giving wrong info if you have no hands on time with the engine in question. Todd makes the engines, and he definately knows the CORRECT way to start em.
I'm sure Todd is correct, however I have a tuned pipe set-up and am not sure if I'd hear the "squish".

Easy enough just to count how many times to rock it in order to start it, I suppose.

But I did notice the first time I prepared to start it that the carb drew the fuel very quickly, more than I had seen before with various other Walbro carbs. After very little break-in this engine is extremely easy to start.

I am also using Syssa's IBE and was a little dubious about it before I tried it, but now I am totally sold. Works great, and you can turn on ignition with the Tx and there's and indicator LED to let you know it's on, plus the optical kill switch, not to mention a significant weight reduction because the separate ignition battery is eliminated.

Edit: I have been wondering about another possible benefit of the IBE, particularly the optical kill feature. When killing the engine by removing the spark, it occurred to me that unlike killing the engine by closing off the throttle butterfly, there is no air or fuel starvation, which in turn keeps the carb a little "wet" for the subsequent start. For whatever reason, almost every start I have had thus far (after the initial choke) has been a one-flip affair.

Hog78 02-11-2010 12:22 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 


ORIGINAL: captinjohn

Turning the engine over does not really do much more than rocking the prop. All you need to do is make the piston go from bottom dead center to top a few times....Is what Todd or whoever said. Here I disagree. Flipping the engine over brings more air/fuel into engine wetting down bearings ect that give lube to where it is needed on start-up. Been there done every possible type of startup. Also I have people that want to buy my used engines instead of buying a brand new one. Smooth Landings, Capt,n;)
So will you sell me your used Syssa? [>:]

captinjohn 02-11-2010 01:07 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
I will not sell my engines anymore...gave to many good deals & only shorted myself. I will let other people spend the time getting things right with the engines they buy. Capt.n

ol_seabee 02-11-2010 01:15 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
I'm pretty sure I would not want to be hand flipping a flooded engine after turning the ignition on

Choking it by flipping with ignition on from the start will fire the engine as soon as it has enough gas and even burn off excess

Choking engine with ignition off could lead to flooding imo

High compression flooded engine... ignition on.... ouch? ;)

Wood props are nice for handflipping btw[8D]

cmoulder 02-11-2010 02:19 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 

Wood props are nice for handflipping btw
As is a well-padded leather glove![sm=thumbup.gif]

craigteffe 02-11-2010 06:13 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 


ORIGINAL: Hog78



ORIGINAL: captinjohn

Turning the engine over does not really do much more than rocking the prop. All you need to do is make the piston go from bottom dead center to top a few times....Is what Todd or whoever said. Here I disagree. Flipping the engine over brings more air/fuel into engine wetting down bearings ect that give lube to where it is needed on start-up. Been there done every possible type of startup. Also I have people that want to buy my used engines instead of buying a brand new one. Smooth Landings, Capt,n;)
So will you sell me your used Syssa? [>:]
Ha! HA! Ha!

Your always good for a laugh!!

Like he or ol dingleberry has one.

PacificNWSkyPilot 02-11-2010 07:03 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 


ORIGINAL: ol_seabee

I'm pretty sure I would not want to be hand flipping a flooded engine after turning the ignition on

Choking it by flipping with ignition on from the start will fire the engine as soon as it has enough gas and even burn off excess

Choking engine with ignition off could lead to flooding imo

High compression flooded engine... ignition on.... ouch? ;)

Wood props are nice for handflipping btw[8D]

It's the same cylinder, and rocking the piston up and down also puts fuel into the bearings at the same time.. Of course it would, because before the fuel in a two-stroke burns it has to go through the crankcase, if I'm not mistaken, which is how the bearings are lubricated in the first place. The piston going UP pushes out burned exhaust on top of it and underneath it pulls the fuel into the case, then it comes down and draws the fuel out of the case so it can burn it. Anyway, the bearings are lubricated, so that's not a problem.

And If you're flipping a gasser by hand, you're going to get a whack now and again, that's the nature of the beast, and you know that when you sign on, guys, right? The ONLY way to avoid being bitten by a temperamental engine that maybe has a little too much go juice waiting there for you is to use a chicken stick or a starter. A glove reduces the effect of a small whack, it doesn't do a dang thing for a good one!

Us "Old Guys" know how to use chokes, you actually are correct about that. We knew walking out the door and feeling how badly the frost bit our face just how much choke we would need, and for how long, and how long before we reduced the choke...That's how engines were started when we were young. Cars had chokes. Motorcycles had them...many still do.

Todd's advice for starting these is solid. Use a clear line, the prop rocks and you can watch as the fuel pumps right up the line. You have fuel, turn on the switch and you have spark, now you have an engine that can run. Give it the right mixture and you're home-free. A thing of beauty indeed.

ghoffman 02-11-2010 07:59 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
My John Deere tractor has a choke, it and the warm-up in the Winter is a major PINA. I wish it had EFI, and as soon as Todd or anyone else makes an EFI for these small gassers, I am in.

Hog78 02-11-2010 08:11 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 


ORIGINAL: ghoffman

My John Deere tractor has a choke, it and the warm-up in the Winter is a major PINA. I wish it had EFI, and as soon as Todd or anyone else makes an EFI for these small gassers, I am in.
:D oh ya EFI that would be nice. hopeing to burn some more petro this weekend. simple as this prime till fuel up to carb(If you can see it) choke once then start without choke.

cmoulder 02-11-2010 08:42 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
Well, I guess I'm just extremely lucky because I've never been whacked. Chalk it up to good safety protocols, I suppose.

All my engines have cowls over them, so I can't see the fuel line when choking. 'Ignition on/choke on' has worked very well and definitely removes any guesswork and any chance of flooding.

If somebody gets whacked by a gas engine, he REALLY needs to re-evaluate his methodology, because he definitely did something WRONG. The only prevention is good, solid safety protocol, and doing it the same way every time.

Choking and starting a gas engine is not rocket science nor some mysterious art conferred by Father Time to wizened old codgers.

AJsToyz 02-11-2010 08:56 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
Well,

Its easier to get bit by glow than gas. Don't get me wrong, gas will get you if you give it a chance but I can tell you I have given much blood starting my glow engines. I actually did end up buying a chicken stick. I was at a Hobby shop closing and paid a buck. That was a great investment !!

Andy

cmoulder 02-11-2010 09:15 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
I'd like to see a picture of a guy starting a 170cc gasser with a chicken stick.:eek:

AJsToyz 02-11-2010 09:19 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
Bob,

That would be a 2x4 with a chunk of car tire on it ! :D Hey batter batter SWING Batter !!

Andy

cmoulder 02-11-2010 09:29 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
Ha!:D:D

I must admit, I've seen guys starting the large engines with the big electric starters with reduction gears. But not often. Unless the carb needles are WAY off, no reason an EI engine shouldn't flip start.

But this SAP-180HP has no such issues, once it's tuned. However, I am running an ES pipe on mine, and I did learn one important thing. The engines are test run before they leave Syssa's shop, but not with a tuned pipe. Tuned pipes demand more fuel, therefore when first starting up with a tuned pipe the needles have to be richened up a bit. I have a 12-oz tank in my Focus II now, but will likely put a slightly larger tank to give a little more run time and fuel cushion - I like to have a little fuel left when I land.

captinjohn 02-11-2010 09:29 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
Use a Firemans Leather glove and learn the correct ARC motion so your hand leaves the path of the other blade...and you will be pretty safe when hand starting a engine. A chicken stick can ruin a good prop in short order. Capt,n

cmoulder 02-11-2010 09:38 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 


ORIGINAL: captinjohn

Use a Firemans Leather glove and learn the correct ARC motion so your hand leaves the path of the other blade...and you will be pretty safe when hand starting a engine. A chicken stick can ruin a good prop in short order. Capt,n
Okay, that sounds good. I've got some winter work gloves, but the idea is the same. I use the gloves in the winter and always with APC props because they're razor sharp on the trailing edges. But in the summer, I don't use anything for wood or CF props.

I take a cue from baseball pitchers and lead with the inside of the elbow when flipping... clears the arc very quickly, with the prop blade set at about 30deg before TDC.

PacificNWSkyPilot 02-11-2010 11:13 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
1 Attachment(s)
Wow, all these people who never do anything wrong. I thought I was in the RC hobby here.

That's where we only LIE about never doing anything wron.....Oh, never mind. Guess the hobby is alive and well!

Anyway, here are the photos I took tonight at the club meeting. The guys couldn't wait to take a good look at that Syssa on the nose, so I pulled the Cowl for them to have a better look.

Not too much interest...yeah, right! LOL

ghoffman 02-11-2010 11:33 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
Sir, that is the most beautiful plane on this forum, VERY well done. It proves that you do not have to do 3-D to be interesting. However, I just finished a 3-D plane (OMP 47 inch Edge with an OS 55) the same day I received my Syssa! Now to figure out what airframe to put it on. I am thinking of the Extreme Flight Extra, because it has the pipe tunnel. It also seems to have the nicest hardware, one of my pet peeves on ARF's. I hate the crap hardware that I seem to spend another $100 on anyway. Here is a video I made of the choke thing and overall impressions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW05tgoSzi4
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