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-   -   SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA (https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/gas-engines-142/8862472-syssa-30cc-gas-made-usa.html)

Scooterpilot 06-18-2009 01:43 PM

SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hi,

JUSTAFYI

There is a new kid on the block...MADE IN <span class="highlight"><font color="#ff0000">USA</font></span>...Syssa engines makes a 30cc

There was a new <span class="highlight">30cc</span> <span class="highlight">engine</span> shown at Joe Nall this week, <u>made in Southington, Connecticut, <span class="highlight">USA</span>.</u> The company is called Syssa Aircraft and the <span class="highlight">engine</span> is a rear induction, 39 oz incl muffler, standoffs and ignition. The only non-US item I saw was the RX Excel ignition. Todd Syssa explained that the first production batch are in process of manufacture, and hopefully will be available around June. I've signed up for one.

All of the components are his own design and manufacture, including his own cylinder head, crank, crankcase, etc.

The reported numbers were 8600 rpm on an 18x6 Xoar, which he said was the best prop he's tried for aerobats. One of his engines on display was installed in an Aeroworks 72" Yak, which he told me came in at 11.2 lbs, and hovers on 3/8 throttle. He was going to fly it later at the Nall (I was there Thursday) and I'd be very interested in hearing back if anyone saw it fly.

Don't know if you saw the 2nd engine he had with him, which he showed in his booth. The black anodized crankcase will be the production version, due in the next month or 2 he said. The one in his AeroWorks 72" Yak had a glass bead blast finish. He claims a weight of 39 oz including muffler and ignition, which puts it in the same weight range as an OS160 w/muffler. Turning an 18x6 Xoar at 8600 rpm is in the same ballpark as the OS, as well. It's about the same power as my <span class="highlight">30</span> <span class="highlight">cc</span> Wolf Predator 1.8 (<span class="highlight">30</span> <span class="highlight">cc</span>) but the weight is much lower

Reference:This above information taken from FG's.


Moderator added name of engine to title



wjvail 06-18-2009 02:07 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
Deleted.

w8ye 06-18-2009 02:24 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
Most likely foreign sourced cylinder with CNC crankcase from USA?

JNorton 06-18-2009 05:09 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
I think it is mentioned as the SAP 180HP for $429.00.

I believe the 180 is 1.8 cu inch which would equal 30 cc. :D

John

RC Extreme power 06-18-2009 05:54 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
Ralph Cunningham looked a the engine at Joe Nall and said it looked very nice, From what he said they are machined in the US and assembled also, But I am sure the will have some foreign parts in it, But the machening and quality control will be in the US and that is a big plus.

 I think he said they were not going to be on there site untill all testing was complete.

Milton

Texastbird 06-18-2009 06:06 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
I got all excited when I saw the 180HP part.  Then I figured out they must have been talking about displacement.  Oh well.  It seems like an entry into an already crowded market segment with all the little gassers from China and elsewhere.  And then there were the big 4 strokes like my Saito 180.   I wish them well in their endeavor.  But a little over $400 will buy you a decent 50cc in today's market place.

Scooterpilot 06-18-2009 10:38 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 


Pic of the engine added to the first post in this thread.</p>

Rcpilot 06-19-2009 04:21 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
$429 for a 30cc engine?

[sm=lol.gif]

Good luck with that...............


Truckracer 06-19-2009 05:37 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 


ORIGINAL: Rcpilot

$429 for a 30cc engine?

[sm=lol.gif]

Good luck with that...............


If this turns out to be a quality engine, equipped as shown with rear exhaust muffler, rear mounted carb and standoffs. If it runs well with power equal to or better than an OS 160 glo engine .... I would buy one in a heartbeat!

We're so spoiled with all the cheap (and sometimes junky) 50 cc engines on the market these days, we lose sight that there are other applications for quality engines of smaller displacement .... even if they cost more. There are many scale applications out there for warbirds and other planes with smaller cowls that just don't lend themselves to many of the current crop of 26 or similar sized engines. You usually have to cut the heck out of the cowl to fit either a giant side mounted muffler or to allow the carb to stick out the side .... or in most cases ... both. For many of us, 4 strokes have been a more practical solution in these smaller airplanes. Maybe this new 30 will be our savior as we'd really rather run gas if only the right engine was available. Cost be damned .....

$429 is still cheaper than a Saito 180!


captinjohn 06-19-2009 05:40 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
That may be just a retail price figure. Look how many things are discounted from retail prices. One thing for sure...we the US citizens have got to start producing more products here so we will have jobs. Yes that also means buy more products made in the USA. Capt,n

karolh 06-19-2009 05:50 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
From the seemingly only available picture it looks like a really quality engine. Pity there seems to be no full pictures of it available at this time as it would be nice to see what it looks like from all sides.

Karol

karolh 06-19-2009 05:58 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
With a Zen 20cc costing 300 bucks it's right in the dollar per cc ball park. Plus Ralph thinks it's a winner so for my money it does not get much better than that. Just figured if I waited long enough something special would come along, and this just might be it.

Karol

Scooterpilot 06-19-2009 06:09 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
Iagree with Truckracer

Especially considering a Saito FG 20(gasser) is $ 520.00 andthe Saito FG 36 (gasser) is close to $700.00 and people are buying these engines. I consider the Saitomotors way overpriced but people are buying them.

Now comes a 30CC motor made in the USA. If it turns out to be a good product and fillS the gap where other motors have failed, I'll buy one ASAP.

Regards,
Chuck Mosa

SunShyne 06-19-2009 08:08 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
I am glad to hear these guys are producing this engine. If it can match the numbers of the OS 160 with an
18x6 prop then I am sold

look forward to hearing more about this engine

DaddySam 06-19-2009 08:11 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 


The website says that the $429 is the street price, which is a bit disappointing. However this is exactly what I was looking for to power my old 25% Aeroworks Edge 540, which went from a Saito 1.50 to a RCGF 26cc gas engine. The performance is "adequate" but not what I was used to with the Saito, and this engine, if the figures are even close to real life, would be awesome on my Edge. I hope that this engine enjoys success amongst those of us who have changed out our 1.50-.180 four strokes but still want that kind of performance. Perhaps success would bring some competition to this niche, and even a lowering of prices.....
I'll be watching this closely in the future. My Edge needs some rebuilding so I won't need to go right out and buy a new motor now.
Sam
Edit: Tell me that's a CM-6 plug and not a full sized sparkplug!</p>

Syssa Aircraft 06-19-2009 09:08 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
<span style="font-family: 'times new roman'; font-size: 16px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Arial; font-size: 12px; background-position: initial initial; ">Thanks for your interest in the SAP-180HP! (sorry its not 180 horsepower!)  It is a 30 cc engine designed specifically for 1.00 to 1.80 size planes...and run on 87 octane gasoline...<div>
The goals of the design were clear.  Develop a lightweight engine that would compete with glow that runs on gasoline, is powerful, very easy to run and install and is rock solid reliable.  I created this engines after trying (in frustration) nearly all the 26cc gassers (wont name them all) on a funtana that I desperately wanted to run on gasoline, but was not happy with the performance.  I still have the firewall that had to be replaced from all the different holes in it from all the engine installations!
<div>
<div>The SAP-180HP took about 2 years to develop and is not conjured up from any sourced engine parts on the market.  It is designed and built from scratch.  Almost all the engine components are built (actually machined here from materials made from mills here in the US) here in the USA.   The reason is that I could not find what I wanted anywhere else.  All the parts are purpose built for this engine.   I was simply not happy with the weedwacker and chainsaw parts that were available.   They did not fit what I wanted....and I finally, after 2 years, have what I want.  </div><div>
</div><div>I had to chuckle a bit at Joe Nall (really the first public viewing of the engine) when modelers asked which cylinder, who's piston, did you use a crankshaft from "so and so's engine", where did you get that sweet exhaust system...and the list goes on and on.   Some seemed to not believe, that, yes...we do machine our own reed cages, pistons, cranshafts (one piece forging of course), connecting rods, cylinders...and everything else.  C'mon...we live in the USA...we are the definition of productivity and creating techology!  Does it cost more to do it this way, of course it does...but there is a vision here....and it has been met....and people are excited...of course, I'm excited as well. </div><div><div>
</div><div>We are not out to compete with the Chinese engines.   Who can compete with China with the currency and wages (unless your market is China and your business is located there of course)...its not possible to compete on price with China.   Anyone who tells you so is full of it. </div><div>
</div><div>Some people will think that our engine cost too much...and that is fine...I completely understand.  I look for deals when I can get them...naturally one would!  There are many Chinese engines out there...and many do run well.  There are, however, some people that do want something more.  My design, SAP's quality, the testing, the service...and the fact that we are aiming for zero defects in our process to build all our engines (developing a very competitive 60cc, lightweight, twin boxer powerhouse) are a few things that people will think about.  The testing that went into this is engine is incredible...and usually not apparent to most people not involved in development of products, especially precision products. Lack of testing, quality and design expertise only show up when there are problems.</div><div>
</div><div>Why would someone buy our engine over a $200 chinese engine? </div><div>
</div><div>The long life, reliability, power, the fit of the engine, the fact that you can call and one of us will answer the phone and answer any possible question you might have...The fact that we are enthusiasts and are looking to not only make money (anyone would be lying if they say they are in business to work for free! right!), but make other enthusiasts happy by giving them exactly what they want...</div><div>
</div><div>For instance, when you order your engine...we will machine the standoffs for a small fee to fit your application.    When you get your engine, everything is assembled, ready to go, right out of the box.  You get everything down to the throttle ball link with the 2-56 threaded rod.  </div><div>
</div><div>I do own a CNC machine shop/fabrication and have an extensive engineering, manufacturing, materials, processing, engine development, specialized test fixtures, testing and product development background.  Trust me...That does help.</div><div>
</div><div>As eager as we are to get the engine to market...we are making absolutely sure to get everything correct the first time...and every time after that.</div><div>When I have my Aeroworks 1.20 Yak hanging over the runway...nothing can fail. Not a servo, not a reed, not a hinge.  I know not everyone flies like this...but having an engine that is rock solid reliable gives me great confidence.  450+ flights with no engine maintainence, without an engine failure says at least something!  A receiver battery outage put an end to the poor funtana 100...this particular test  engine is still going strong and lives in the test Yak....even after smacking the ground straight in at about 40 mph.  Its the yak that was at Joe Nall.  And yes...anyone that loves RC...well you simply have to go to Joe Nall...It was simply outstanding....</div><div>
</div><div>By the way...the price on the website is correct...that is the price.  No funnies.  No suggested prices, crazy inflations and discounts, no changes in other countries.   Its the same everywhere and is in US dollars.  Simplicity is usually best here.  We want to spend time in R &amp; D, and customer service...not trying to figure out new pricing schemes.</div><div>
Take care all...and the engine will be ready soon!  Please email me directly with any questions about the engine...I dont always get on the forums...or give a call! 860 538 2937 - Todd</div><div>
A video has been taken and should be posted soon.  Several videos will be out on how a typical install is done on different types of planes as well as how it performs on them.  Video, short of actually being there to see first hand, is the only way to show real performance.</div><div>
</div><div>Remember...just about anyone can make an engine that will run.  Making one that performs to a high level, is very lightweight, very compact, fits a wide variety of aircraft, has a linear throttle curve, spools up very fast, runs smooth, looks great and lasts a long time is an entire different story. Oh...and make it all for a reasonable price...</div><div>
</div><div>Wow...that was long.</div></div></div></div></div></span>

GoeKeli 06-20-2009 12:08 AM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
Inspiring would be an understatement!

DaddySam 06-20-2009 12:36 AM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 


Any chance of angling the plug instead of having it point straight down?
Sam</p>

rcdude7 06-20-2009 07:38 AM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 


ORIGINAL: Texastbird

I got all excited when I saw the 180HP part. Then I figured out they must have been talking about displacement. Oh well. It seems like an entry into an already crowded market segment with all the little gassers from China and elsewhere.And then there were the big 4 strokes like mySaito 180. I wish them well in their endeavor. But a little over $400 will buy you a decent 50cc in today's market place.

When you consider what it costs to mfgr a engine, there is hardly any difference between 30 and 50cc.

A engine made entirely in the US iscool, I may have to buy one.

karolh 06-20-2009 08:36 AM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
I know that I will definately WANT one.

Karol

hairy46 06-20-2009 11:12 AM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
Just the fact it is made in America I would buy it and give it a chance! What could be better then to scatch build a plane and power it with a made in the USA engine! Sign me up! Love to see more stuff made here! I do not buy stuff made in allot of country's but with RC you do not have allot of choice! Now on the thirty I do! Does it give an address or did I miss it? Bob



Want to keep from crashing? Take off and land higher!

hairy46 06-20-2009 11:17 AM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 


I found the phone no. Todd looking forward to talking to you!  Bob


Remember it is easier to ask for forgiveness then for permission!</p>

JEFFRO503 06-20-2009 11:19 AM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
Todd...i have to say i am impressed! Along with quite a few others that stumble along this thread. Your motor ( 30cc) looks really , realy good. I'm in the same boat as you and many others , where i would be willing to pay a little extra to get american made , high quality engines with great support ( ALA : BME , DA , Fox , Brisson....ect) Not bashing the china made motors at all though. Especially ones that we're designed here by guys like Milton at RC extreme power......have heard nothing but great things about those motor's as well. And i know there are some "pretty good" quality China based motors that some people try to push for a sale , but in all honestney , i think you'll get 2-3 times ( maybe more) actuall running hours out of an amercan , well thought out , high grade materials type motor , like the ones i listed above. Sure they cost more , but i look at them as an investmet. This little 60cc boxer twin you spoke of.....has got me curious. Any ideas on the table of a 100cc-120cc , or posibly 150cc - 180cc? Goin' to check out the site now. great looking motor man!

Jake Ruddy 06-20-2009 12:32 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
Sounds like a winner and worth the money too me! :D

Kostas1 06-20-2009 01:08 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
OMG

American manufacturing at it's best!

i like the design!

Konstantinos
Greece

jaka 06-20-2009 02:12 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hi!
Looks fine but...the silencer looks like a joke! Way too small!
Problem for all two strokes is that they need a large volume silencer to really reduce noice and sound well (not sound like a moped!).
That's why a cannister is needed. Look forward to a manufacturer that can make a two stroke silencer that doesn't reduce horsepower and doesn't sound like like a moped!

Syssa Aircraft 06-20-2009 02:55 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
<span style="font-family: 'times new roman'; font-size: 16px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Arial; font-size: 12px; background-position: initial initial; ">jaka,  I wish everyone could use a cannister...but a majority cannot due to the airplane design and size constraints.  Our engine definitely does not sound like a moped...lol<div>We will be offering a nice cannister for our engine soon.</div><div>
</div><div>bob...looking forward to talking with you as well...</div><div>
</div><div><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 13px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px; ">Konstantinos...thanks!  Hello to Greece...we will be able to send our engine anywhere in the world that we are allowed to ship to.</span></div><div><font size="3" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size: 13px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px;">
</span></font></div><div><font size="3" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size: 13px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px;">JeffR...thanks...actually a few people saw my engine at Nall 2009 and were encouraging me to design a nice 200cc. Its not off the table...but its a bit of a financial investment and time...making an engine takes lots of focus.  I wont make an engine just to have one for sale...I want it to be something great...something outstanding...if its just ho hum or the same as whats out there...to me there is no point in doing it.  I strive for greatness and innovation.</span></font></div><div><font size="3" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size: 13px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px;">
</span></font></div><div><font size="3" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size: 13px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px;">Daddysam...it is a CM-6...there is no other way to go.  The plug is straight and you actually do not save much by angling it.  It is straight for performance and combustion chamber shape reasons. Angling a plug can get kind of messy...and we have a very nice hemi head design...I would not want to change it...after all that work...plus the spark plug lead goes nicely right in between the muffler outlets back to the plane.  Soon I will have some better photos for you to see.</span></font></div><div><font size="3" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size: 13px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px;">
</span></font></div><div><font size="3" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size: 13px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px;">By the way our connecting rod center distance to stroke ratio is over 1.8:1.</span></font></div><div><font size="3" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size: 13px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px;">
</span></font></div><div><font size="3" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size: 13px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px;">thanks all..</span></font></div></div></span>

Syssa Aircraft 06-20-2009 02:56 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
by the way jaka...what plane is that in the photo?

Scooterpilot 06-20-2009 03:32 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
HI,


Before you get too many back orders on this new 30CC, what's process so I can order one from you. Ithink this engine will be the perfect fit for the new Funtana 125 that Ihave on back order and it's not due to till the end of July.

<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size: 10pt">Regards,

</span><span style="font-size: 16pt">Chuck</span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size: 10pt">If drinking and driving are illegal, then why do bars have parking lots??? </span><span style="font-size: 16pt"></span></div>

AKA

Syssa Aircraft 06-20-2009 03:45 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
Chuck, we wont take any money from you until the engine is ready to ship...<div>
</div><div>You can give us your information...by email..and let me know what your putting the engine into.  Does the new Funtana have the same firewall to hub distance as the 100X?  I think it is 5.125"?  If so we have a standard standoff for 5.200" which would be very close to what you have.</div><div>
</div><div>Actually I had a Funtana 100x with a test engine in it last year...it was a blast to fly.  Nearly a 2:1 thrust to weight ratio with an 18x6.</div><div>
</div><div>email is sales@syssaaircraft.com</div><div>
</div><div>
</div>

Scooterpilot 06-20-2009 04:01 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 


Todd,

You ask a good question.I don'tknow, so I checked the Horizon web site and they don't have a soft copy of the assembly manual on line for the new Funtana 125. Isent them an email requesting the information. When Iget the info from them I'll send you an email with the d<span style="font-size: 9pt">imensions.

Thanks

</span></p><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size: 10pt">Regards,

</span><span style="font-size: 16pt">Chuck</span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size: 10pt">If drinking and driving are illegal, then why do bars have parking lots??? </span>
</div>

gkamysz 06-20-2009 04:14 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
Todd, Is the cylinder jug yours also? I understand that the better jugs for utility engines come from Taiwan. It's cool to see an American made product. I'm not into large engines, but would hesitate to buy any of the imports just because. It's nice to be able to spend dollars at home when it's possible and practical. It's too bad that's not really possible with smaller glow engines.

Syssa Aircraft 06-20-2009 04:14 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
Sure..thanks...<div>I'll have to dig up some photos of the funtana with the SAP180 in it.  Actually, it balanced really well without adding weights anywhere.</div><div>
Adding ballast weight to an airplane is like putting an ugly tattoo on a pretty woman.</div><div>
</div>

RC Extreme power 06-20-2009 06:11 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 


ORIGINAL: karolh

. Plus Ralph thinks it's a winner so for my money it does not get much better than that.

Karol
If you made this post from what I posted, I never said he said they were a winner, Just that they looked good, not saying they are not a winner just do not want to mislead what was said by Ralph to me.

Milton


Vacaman 06-20-2009 06:35 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 


What a nice engine you got there Todd.
I think that a great design, quality and customer service worth the extra money. For the numbers this engine would be a good sustitute for a ys140, a little heavier, but much less fuel costs.
I am about to build a giant profile, and this engine seems great for it :D. When is the release date?</p>

karolh 06-20-2009 06:41 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 


ORIGINAL: RC Extreme power



ORIGINAL: karolh

. Plus Ralph thinks it's a winner so for my money it does not get much better than that.

Karol
If you made this post from what I posted, I never said he said they were a winner, Just that they looked good, not saying they are not a winner just do not want to mislead what was said by Ralph to me.

Milton


Milton,
Yes I did and thanks for the correction. It was never my intention to mislead and I would surely hate to offend 'anyone' one way or the other.

Karol

Bat Fastard 06-20-2009 09:59 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
Talked to Todd today and cant wait til he ships them. I'm on the order list. Gonna put it on an old Yellow Aircraft Giles g-300 for testing.......

Jamie

MetallicaJunkie 06-20-2009 11:23 PM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
i need video

soarrich 06-21-2009 12:02 AM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
Beautiful motor,.......BUT that muffler is just exhaust tubes. That may work for the guys in AZ or Nevada, but on the east-coast it's going to cost fields.


Syssa Aircraft 06-21-2009 07:14 AM

RE: SYSSA 30CC GAS MADE IN USA
 
Its quieter than you think.   Also will be offering a cannister muffler.<div>
</div><div>With the silencers installed in the exhaust...its even less.</div><div>
</div><div>I'll get you the numbers soon.</div>


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