Scorpion Racing

Are you ready to race? We are!!! The 5th annual Southern 500 in Mulberry, Florida is set for March 21 & 22 with open practice and testing for all classes on Friday, March 20. 424 will run both days, with each day being counted as a separate race. 428 will run on Saturday March 21, and 422 will run Sunday March 22. All classes will run the AMA long course with digital lap timing and scoring with a surveyed and certified course layout. We are using a new pole with vertical yellow flags, so there are no extra poles or obstacles to get in the way!! 424 class will be required to run the APC 9x6 prop with a 16,500 RPM limit checked randomly during the event. (All RPM checks are done as they sit - no pinch RPM's will be done)

Fuel will be Power master supplied for the race, but you must provide your own fuel for the Friday practice. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions or would like additional information or help getting started in AMA 3 pole Pylon racing. Attached is the event flyer, if you want one in .PDF or a Word file, I can e-mail you a copy.

Thanks,

EXPRESSO PYLON RACER

SCOTT im ready too RACE WITH YOU GUYS . I will circle those dates on my calender. Robert

marcus1899

Scott,

Looks good, also will you be having another race this year and if so when do you anticipate that being? Just trying to get this years schedule together and plan some other things is all.

Later,

Marcus

Scorpion Racing

Great Robert & Marcus! We will have our second race in October, that has been our 2 times a year for the last 5 years. We try to shoot for the middle to late part of the month, but may move foward or back a week to avoid conflicts with other local and national events.

Hope to see you guys there

EXPRESSO PYLON RACER

Scott whats the # for the hotel next to your fly field .

Scorpion Racing

The Super 8 number is (863) 425-2500. There are a lot of hotels less than 15 minutes away, but this one you can stagger to after a hard day of drinking.... I mean flying....

You guys need some video of the next NASCAR race/drinking party/Pylon pilot fights in the rooms! I bet you tube would eat that up!!!

luv to race

My Feedback: (1)

Suggestion Scott.

This 424 RPM limit thing was about a cluster as I've seen in racing in awhile, at the Tangerine. The AMA rules for 424 don't appear to have the RPM limit anymore, it used to, but it's gone. It has been written out of the rules for a few years. (someone correct if I'm wrong).

So why not just exclude any RPM checking in 424, per the rule book and move on. Because the discussion of finding max or peak RPM is crazy..."pinching the motor", or just "turning the needle in to find peak", or regulating the "static launch RPM"...

just my thoughts...

Randy Bridge

Freeman Jr.

My Feedback: (2)

I feel that the 424 guys should make the choice. We have already ruined Q500 in 428 and I would hate to see the experts do the same for the 424 guys.

s. wallace

My Feedback: (24)

Humm, I just happen to be nearby that weekend for the Sebring 12 Hour race. I'll plan on flying 424, but it would be Sunday only.

PhilMill

Yo Gary, RB, Scott,

The 16,500 rule is neither here nor there as I see it. I know guys who are "twisting props" to make them turn the 16,500 rpm's but with a higher pitched prop...

If you're gonna enforce one rule, you should also enforce the others....

So what do you do about that? Issue props.....????

Phil

Scorpion Racing

You know, my fastest times ever have almost always come after the RPM checks. Fact is, you want to run a prop that loads your engine to about 16,200 anyways, so I never worry about the limit. As far as twisting props... you will be done if you do it. That is instant dis-qualification and doesn't cut it. There is no reason to cheat and risk it, the benifits are too small to help any. the key to winning in 424 is being smoooo-oooothhhh (right Phil ), and flying tight around the course. Look at the lap times 2 years ago, and compare them to our times in the last few races. The workshop with the one-on-one help in learning to fly the course and get a good cadence for the 424 guys made a big difference in the times.

As far as changing the rules in mid season, I am against it. If we do eliminate the SEMPRA RPM rule, we should do it after the last race of the year in September, and start it in the first race in October. That can be voted by the membership at the next race, if that is what the majority wishes. I just think the winner even after that change, would still be turning the same numbers they are now.

Just my thoughts...

opashuffle

Hello to all, It's Miguel.

I look forward to seeing you all at the race. It's going to be a fantastic event. Didn't have that much fun last year, but this year it will all be different.

Thanks to all that have helped me out at the last 3 races. I look forward to being more competitive this upcoming season. Hopefully the morning fog does not slow down the start of the event this year lol.

See you all there!!!

Scorpion Racing

I hope you can make it Mr. Wallace, I just moved back here from Sebring last summer! I lived on the lake just past the airport/race track, so I know all about the drive to the field in Mulberry from there! If you need directions, feel free to ask.

Miguel, keep racing and you will get better! It's a lot of fun, and I or most of the guys will help you anytime you need. The fog was strange last year, we had a stalled front that held the moisture & the heat in for the weekend. That was the first time I have seen that that early in the year too. It is strange to get a cold front in October in Florida! The spring event is generally cooler (70's) and usually no fog. At 10 weeks out and counting, I am hoping for good weather too!

As you guys know, we will keep an eye out for any cheating and deal with it. Altered props are detectable, as is any other cheating. As CD, I can inspect any engine at anytime, so if it seems to be running too good after a heat, be ready to prove it is running legally right after the heat before returning to the pits. Most of the guys who try to cheat, do it because they are slow. Problem is, if you don't fly tight, you won't win no matter what you do to the prop or engine. We have only found a couple of cheats in 11 events, so don't think it is common. Neither of the violators were even in the top 1/2 of the field in standings and the violations were dealt with. If you think something is wrong, come get me and we will check into it. The CD has full inspection and teardown rights, and a contestant has challenge rights.

Rick and I both race in 424, so you know we are looking for guys who cheat too. I think cheating is a lot more rare than you may think, as the fast guys aren't gonna risk losing for cheating, and the guys cheating will just end up blowing it because they are trying to make up for running bad laps. If you see it, come get one of us.

Enough on that, LETS RACE!!

ckeene9

My Feedback: (-1)

Plan on being down there. Will get hotel reservations taken care of this week. Just gotta keep practicing every week and get TIGHTER!!!

luv to race

My Feedback: (1)

Phil... The props are certainly a variable, so is weather, and so is the variables with each engine. Which is some of the reasons the 16,5K rule was written OUT of the AMA rules. It's a hassel to enforce, it takes time to enforce. And what Freeman might of been trying to say is, if nothing is done to control the 424 class (which it appears we need to do out here..lol). Evolution will take over, and in 5-10 years... you'll be turning 19K and turning 1:12's. So finding the balance to keep the class as an entry level class is hard.

Soooooo...You actually know people who cheat and twist props?? no way... Have you asked whoever it is to stop doing that, and let them know that's not legal? How stupid do you have to be to cheat in 424, that's laughable. There is just no excuse for even racing beyond the rules, ever. It does nothing but break down the cohesivness of the brotherhood. And make that person an outsider to the rest of us.

So Scott... does the SEMPRA rules still carry the 16.5 rule? Do you know? or are you making this rule a "local" rule for you contest? Just curious and helping clarify for the rest of the country that reads this thread.


BTW I'll be turning well over 16,5 at your race.. probably close to 31K at lunch.

RB..

Scorpion Racing

The SEMPRA rules are posted on the NMPRA site under racing documents and under 424 class rule #6 reads:

So, I am just following the rules man! When we put on the pylon workshop back in August, we talked about how we were going to handle the RPM checks, and the "as it sits" method was chosen. Once the engine is checked, you are not allowed to touch it again, or you take a zero for the heat. As far as doing away with the RPM method, that would get the class moving faster in a hurry! Speed creep would be a factor, and a lot of new guys to racing are a little intimidated at the 424 speeds anyways. So if we allow the class to run faster, we may just shoot ourselves in the foot for new pilots. We have a good group of new guys in 424, maybe we should ask them?

Yeah, 31K is cookin', but that's why we call you Mr. WC

luv to race

My Feedback: (1)

Okay, cool. Thanks Scott for digging that up, I just wanted to see how the rule reads. Freeman took some lip from a few 424 guys at the Tangerine about the maximum rpm. Where as Freeman wanted to test engines by pinching the intake line to find the maximum rpm, some guys insisted that the rule read maximum "launch" rpm. Which is clearly says nothing about "launch" rpm. And after reading the rule up in your post, it's evident that the rule isn't worded to say how you collect the maximum rpm data at all. So let the "interpretation" begin right. Pinch the intake line, pinch the pressure line, screw the needle in until the motor is maxed out.

"Engines shall be tested prior to first round and be required not to exceed 16,500 rpm." ... that just says the motor should never ever turn over 16.5.

"At the CD’s discretion and before the last round is flown, engines should be re-tested to ensure that it does not exceed the maximum 16,500 rpm." ... again, no method mentioned for achieving the maximum rpm. But at least that's one mention of "maximum" rpm.

But, certainly no mention of maximum "launch" rpm.. right?

So. I really think you SEMPRA 424 guys should have a meeting, maybe at your race Scott, and come to some sort of agreement that stipulates how you achieve maximum rpm. And see about adding (if you guys wish) your maximum "launch" rpm limit as an option, if you guys want that.

Either way, all I've been trying to say is... this needs to be cleared up to help exclude the voids in the way the rule is written. This should help with the "interpretation" issues, like at the Tangerine. I'm sure Dobyn's would be more than willing to help us get this done, even if it's classified as a "emergency" rules proposal for SEMPRA.

Does that make sense?

RB (WC)

daven

My Feedback: (1)

Randy are you going to Mulberry?

If so, make sure you have the other Randy up his control throws, not sure how he can fly those R200's with such restricted surface movement

luv to race

My Feedback: (1)

LOL... I hear ya. I think last year we dialed out about 15-20 percent elevator, not it was enough..lol.. crazy man Randy, got the 3D throws in the quickee...

RB

scausey

My Feedback: (2)

[quote]
Once the engine is checked, you are not allowed to touch it again, or you take a zero for the heat. [quote]



Scott,

What do you mean by this statement ??? Are you saying that once the motor has been checked, the pilot can not touch the needle valve again...? I know that I move my needle before every heat and I do so while on the line before the race. Just asking the question to clarify.


Scott Causey

luv to race

My Feedback: (1)

Causey.... what they do out here is check the engines on the line while the competitors are on the clock for a heat race. And what Scott S. is saying is... a designated person will check each motor on the line to ensure that it's not turning over 16.5K. And that is a static "launch" rpm number, no pinching fuel lines, no running the needle in, nothing to do with maximum rpm.

In other words. The engine could turn (let's say for discussion's sake) 20K rpm "balls out maximum"... by either, pinching the intake line, running the needle in, etc. But you can still only "launch" at 16.5k. No matter what the peak or maximum rpm is, you still launch at 16.5.

Now what that does, is leave the door open for the caller to turn the needle in after the designated tach guy gets done checking you (assuming nobody is watching). And someone will try and turn the needle in... just like the mention in this discussion of guys knowing about other guys twisting props to slow the motor down to 16.5 maximum rpm. And all that says is, there some dishonesty out here. The idea of "entry level", "stock" racing is lost in some eyes.

That's why I'm saying to make the rules MUCH more clear for the SEMPRA group.

RB

Scorpion Racing

You are both correct, kinda. we check RPM running on the line at no more than 16.5K. The spotter or pilot is not allowed to touch the needle valve after this point, or he gets a zero for the heat. After the RPM test heat, you can tweak up to the time of the launch as much as you want to. The one point to make is, if that thing is screaming during the heat, the CD has the right to check it as it is. Make sure the baffle is there and not modified, check the prop for modifications, put in some fresh fuel and check the RPM's or even do a full tear down if needed.

I know the RPM thing is a little hard to manage, and maybe we should clean up the wording and dye some props and issue them for the 424 race. I know somewhere in the rules the CD is allowed to issue props for the race, if needed. I will tell you how I do my props. I buy 5 bags, balance them, and run it on my race engine one right after the other. I tweak it for max. RPM, and shut it off. I the right the max. RPM on the rear hub and do the next prop. This gives me a baseline for all the props. On race day, I put one on and check the RPM, if it is running faster or slower than I want it, I use the baseline number (which may be faster or slower than what I just got) and move to a slower or faster RPM prop. Now I know I am safe, as well as how the air is, relative to the day I tested all the props.

One thing some guys forget about, these engines are not pure racing engines. There is a point where a higher RPM is hurting performance. True racing engines are designed to perform at high RPM's, but these engines are really not designed for over 15K. That is why we remove the carb springs, locktite all the bolts, change the bearings to HP ones, glue the muffler together, etc...

The important thing in my eyes is to have a level playing field, fast enough to have fun, but not scare away potential new guys by being too fast or expensive. That is what 428 and 422 is for, right!

luv to race

My Feedback: (1)

Scott - check you personal email, I rewrote the SEMPRA engine power rule. To include deeper definition to maximum rpm, including different methods for collecting max rpm data... and I included a acceptable method of "as it sits static launch rpm", to cover the method you want to us at your race. The rule is not specific enough as it's written, and the rewrite that is in your email should help with all the interpretation out there. I copied Dobyn's too.

Randy

Randy Etken

My Feedback: (10)

I am ready to race Scott. I will be packing up the Motor home and heading to Florida on March 11. Cold here with a foot of snow, and not flown since October. Flying skills will be rusty, they are never too good, but will have two new R-200 to test and fly in the warm Florida sun.

RBthis is the year of layoffs and I am going to have to let you go as my caller. I think you called me short on 2 and 3 a couple if times last year. I have my own personal caller J. Elert flying down for the race. So two of us from the north will be there.

Looking foward to seeing all the Florida guys in a few week.

luv to race

My Feedback: (1)

holy crap! you're firing me! okay, I'll live with that...but only because my replacement is a hell of a good guy..

RB