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Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K

Old 09-01-2008, 03:13 PM
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Default RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K

So, after completely remaking my throttle servo set up, I found what may have been killing the smaller Hitecs:

Although I had released the throttle tension spring from the DA150, it remains on the shaft. I noticed that it was in a position that allowed it to interfere with the lowest throttle setting - in other words, when attempting get close to a closed throttle (very low idle), the spring wire was not allowing the throttle arm to close w/o LOTS of resistance. This was only noticable at very low throttle setting.

"Coincidentally" every servo died shortly after trying to get a low enough idle to allow the plane to sit still. I also vividly remember that as I would dial down my End Point for low throttle, there seemed to be less and less engine response (the damn spring was interfering with the throttle arm!!) I should have known something was wrong, but I just assumed that as the angle of the throttle servo arm became more acute, it traveled less, thus, idle was affected less.

There is no doubt in my mind this was causing the servo to stall. Why that would kill it? Perhaps this will happen to any servo that is outputting its maximum torque for an extended period of time.

So, now I have a Std. size 5625 with about a 3" pushrod mounted directly to back of dome and I have reconfigured the throttle close spring so it no longer interferes with anything..... What the hell, I needed the nose weight...
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Old 09-02-2008, 07:44 PM
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Default RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K

Richard, sounds like a good fix, and if there is any dome flex (I dont think there will be) the servo will always be moving with the engine. I would still put a tank full through it on the ground.

The CA boys said two weeks for wing shipment so I should see them pretty soon. But I have my kitchen torn up in a MAJOR honeydo so not sure when the next flight will be????

Jim did Frank T. invite you to his flyin? DWR.
Old 09-02-2008, 08:11 PM
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Default RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K

DWR,

I sent Frank an e-mail with a few pics and info and he e-mailed me back and said he would like to have me and the Gee Bee there. I would bet that very few people turn Gee Bees away, they are a crowd favorite.
Old 09-02-2008, 09:09 PM
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Default RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K

Hi Guys I have been watching the thread as I am building an R2 for my friend Perry so far everything that was not right we have changed to make right . the elevator side clearance was moved over 1/8 inch with the angle increased to get clearance as the plane will be painted when finished to remove all mold lines and fill work on fillets . I am curious if anyone else had this problem . Thanks Ray
Old 09-02-2008, 09:54 PM
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Default RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K

Hi I mentioned the clearance but did not say it is at 30deg down elev. the lower bulkhead is the problem also the 1/8 was in increased angle. the front is finished rudder with 2 sullivan arms to capture Dubro hemi ball joint for pull pull is finished,side door very close all mods to elev. are finished ready to final install with the same arms and conectors for hemi ball joint also bringing the pivot point to the center of hinge line.the ail. will be the same .Thanks Ray
Old 09-04-2008, 08:38 PM
  #281  
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Default RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K

Updated pics of Gee Bee build! Not far from paint...
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Old 09-06-2008, 05:29 PM
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Default RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K

[X(]FLIGHT REPORT![X(]

Take off was picture perfect (perhaps due to gyro...)

GeeBee needed left aileron and LOTS of up trim. I was very surprised at the amount of up trim required and this lead me to believe I had a nose-heavy airplane, BUT.........

Before flying her today, I already knew I had a hairline fracture in one muffler. Well, of course, the entire muffler broke away in flight and proceeded to rattle around in the cowl, so I had a very different sound to contend with, as well as this changing the throttle and idle characteristics... and still, more UP TRIM required.. [:-].. what the..???

So, I'm making landing approaches with my increasingly rattly sounding Gee Bee. One thing I noticed was a very pronounced crabbing to the left upon throttling all the way down - this made it very difficult to line up on the runway without feeding in rudder along with throttling down. And YES, I do have the rudder slaved to throttle such that idle gives absolute neutral rudder (centered) and throttling up results in rudder aligning with right thrust in fin. This seemed to be fine with power, but the Gee Bee still crabs quite a bit to the left upon throttle down.

With each approach and go-around, I was really fighting the tendency of the plane to pitch DOWN everytime I throttled up AND the engine seemed to be sounding worse...[:-]

I finally got my wits about me, feeding additional right rudder in while bringing her in for landing. About 3 ft. from touching down, I had used up quite a bit of runway and decided to go around. When I throttled up, the plane literally SLAMMED into the ground on the mains. This destroyed the brand new XOAR 30x12, but the plane stayed on the mains...

Upon further examination, I found that ONLY ONE ENGINE BOLT REMAINED!!!!!!! The reason the damn thing was pitching hard down with throttle up was the two top bolts had already bailed out and the engine was pitching forward and down with the application of throttle!!!

Intitially in the flight, I was not terribly concerned with this tendency as my quarter scale R2 had this same characteristic, probably due to some engine down thrust. But as this flight went on, the tendency seemed to be getting worse, along with the 'ratty' sound of the engine.

IF I had successfully been able to go around one more time, it is very likely the DA150 would have left the firewall and the entire project would now be in a garbage can!!![:'(]
So, I consider this "bullet #4" that I have dodged, the first 3 being throttle servo failures.

I have done absolutely NOTHING different in my approach to assembling this aircraft, than I have on my last 3 giant IMAC/3D planes - all of which have been trouble-free and 'bullet-proof' through many insane flights. Why I have been frought with so many Gee Bee problems (and lived through them), I simply cannot say!!!

The ONLY theory I can come up with as to why the engine bolts came out is that perhaps I was distracted during one of my MANY disassembly/reassemblies of the aircraft caused by balance issues and forgot to tighten and locktite the 1/4x20 bolts w/lock washers. In 30 years, this is the FIRST TIME I have had an engine come loose in flight.

The fact that the engine didn't shake the plane to pieces is testament to the smooth running DA150 and perfectly balance propeller.

After some work, she will indeed live to fly another day... And until I can post a flight with a solid engine and two mufflers, I cannot give an honest accounting of the Gee Bee's handling characteristics. It is indeed possible that some of the crabbing upon landing was also due to a loose engine..?

I DID notice the absolute coolest howl, or whistle when she came by at reasonable speed, although most of my flight was at 50% throttle or less.

One of the guys at the field took some video which, if I can get a copy, I will be glad to post.
Old 09-06-2008, 05:38 PM
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Default RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K

Richard,

You got to stop scaring us man, As I read your note, I thought it was a dunner, Did run bolts long enough to put lock nuts on back side?, Slown down, Dont feel bad, Ive lost three models this year because of simple stupidity. Do us a favor and kiss your lucky freakin stars that you have it.

Doug
Old 09-06-2008, 06:48 PM
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Default RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K

I used massive blind nuts - not hobby type - the type of 'T' nut they sell at the hardware store.

And of course, I got a few ga-fahs at the field at my choice of nut [X(](not a nylon aircraft nut), and certainly I admit that the armchair QBs are right.... but I have used large blind nuts embedded in hardwood firewalls on ALL my giants and have never had an issue.

I am fairly convinced my 'issue' was getting distracted at some point during re-assembly of nose section and failing to secure engine bolts as I know they should be, using flat washer, lock washer and locktite.

Regardless, when the engine goes back on I will use nylon filled aircraft nuts as it is impossible to hand tighten the engine - requires a wrench

I just finished measuring engine run-out and it appears the removable prop shaft is bent thanks to the propeller strike - .012" run-out - so away she goes to DA..... you just gotta love a Gee Bee (combined with carelessness - lethal combination)[:@]
Old 09-07-2008, 06:12 PM
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Default RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K

Richard, sorry to hear of your problem with the beast but glad to hear you got it back on the ground. I had to put in a ton of up trim on my first flight. Maybe this is due to the 18% chord CG which is nose heavy compared to most setups we fly. I experienced no yaw on landing. Was there any cross wind at all during your test flight? The beast is very sensitive to cross wind I guess. Hang in there. Tame the beast. DWR.
Old 09-07-2008, 06:34 PM
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Default RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K

DWR,

There was a subtle, but direct cross wind yesterday and the Gee Bee was apparently reacting to it upon landing.
However, considering my tenuous engine situation, it would be impossible and unfair for me to make any solid flight assessments since I have no idea what all the changing engine thrusts were doing to the handling characteristics of the plane.

If I am very lucky, I will be able to have the plane back together by next weekend and will have another go at it.
Old 09-18-2008, 07:33 PM
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Default RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K

GENTS

4 full stop landings today - on asphault.

The Gee Bee held together and flew great! I actually posted 3 separate flights; the 3rd flight consisted of a landing, taxi back to runway start, take-off, fly around and then another landing.

I reduced nose weight by about 7 ounces by replacing the giant ignition battery with a smaller 2700 mah. Judging by my last (hair raising[X(]) experience, the Gee Bee seemed nose heavy anyway.

Today I did rolls, a couple loops, knife edge and very high G turns. Like EVERY aircraft I have ever flown, the Gee Bee pulls towards the gear somewhat in knife edge; easily corrected.

It sinks at a fairly rapid rate when throttle is fully chopped, so one should NOT chop the throttle fully until, oh, about 12" off the runway

The only area of weakness I am experiencing on the Gee Bee are the cheapo plastic landing gear "spats" (upper gear covers) - they are getting beat up from the fiberglass pants pivoting upwards.

The XOAR 30x12 seems perfect for the DA150 and provides good, but not outragious, speed.

Perhaps it is my cowl baffling, but my Gee Bee has the coolest 'howl' / 'whistle' when it is at speed[8D]

So.... this weekend I am CDing our 2nd annual "Golden Age Fly In" at Woodland/Davis Aeromodelers in Woodland, CA. The Gee Bee R2 should be the star performer
Old 09-20-2008, 07:40 PM
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Default RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K

Here are some shots of Rich's Gee Bee from the Woodland Davis Golden Age fly. Rich did a nice job flying, and that with the crosswind all day.
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Old 09-20-2008, 07:43 PM
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Default RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K

another set
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Old 09-20-2008, 07:46 PM
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Default RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K

last set
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Old 09-21-2008, 08:00 PM
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Default RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K

Richard, way to go!! Glad to see you get in some good flights. Great pictures too. You have beat the beast. Congrats. DWR
Old 09-21-2008, 09:02 PM
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Default RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K

DWR,

If you remember, in the classis "A Christmas Story," when Ralphie finally receives his Red Rider BB gun; as his revelry is at its zenith, he shoots a metal sign and the BB ricochets into his eye..?

Well, that parallels what happened to me today...

I changed precisely nothing from Saturday’s flights – didn’t even unload the Gee Bee from my car.
Followed the exact same start up/warm up/run up routine today and shortly after take off, the engine quit. The Gee Bee was about 75 ft., 30+deg climb and banking. The DA went from full throttle to silent, just as if someone had shut off the ignition.

I allowed the Gee Bee to maintain a steep glide and flared to touch down out in the rough. While it stayed on the gear, it whipped around like a spinning top. This side-load caused substantial damage to the fuselage and put a stress fracture in one wing half.

And, after ALL factors come into play, when I stand back and analyze the disappointments, the primaries being: money, time, and effort – the one factor that irks me the MOST, are the comments from the ‘usual suspects’ who maintain the ol’ adage that “every Gee Bee they ever saw fly, ended in disaster…”
I absolutely HATE adding fuel to that fire!!!

Clearly, this crash had nothing to do with the GeeBee per se, although I have no doubt my big Yak or similar aircraft would have suffered nothing close this level of damage due to a flame-out in a similar situation (a dead 33-35 pound R2 glides like a sewer lid), this was an ENGINE FAILURE, not a GEE BEE FAILURE.

Regardless, this doesn’t stop the naysayers. And THAT is the element that irks me the most about this little disaster!
Second, after 4 successful flights on Thursday and two yesterday, I was truly feeling as though I might actually master this beast.
Now, it’s back to square one. Hey, I know, YOU KNOW, exactly what I am going through!!!

So, I now have no idea when I will next fly my Gee Bee. I think I have accepted the fact that repairs will be affected for STRUCTURAL integrity ONLY (the portly, but beautiful pig will remain ugly, I am afraid)
I will return to flying/mastering and, hopefully, build another that is even more immaculate than this one once was….
Old 09-22-2008, 10:58 AM
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Default RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K

Wow! Tough luck, sorry to hear that.
Two Gee Bee's lost to flame out on take off! Richard,do you have a clue on what caused engine to die?
I bet that it is pucker time when things suddenly go quiet!
Danny
Old 09-22-2008, 11:08 AM
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Default RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K

NO IDEA what caused DA to quit.

Entire fuel system appears perfect. No visable signs of wiring problems or poorly connected connectors. Ignition battery was at 7v with plenty of current handling ability. Regulator should be checked out, of course.
Only DA can check the igntion module.

ALL my DA's have always been very reliable. This one never gave hint it was any exception. Believe me, if it had, I would NEVER have flown this plane.

I will send evertying to DA for check-up and go over everything in the plane with a fine tooth comb.
Until then, I haven't a clue.
Old 09-22-2008, 01:39 PM
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Default RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K

Rich here are a couple of the pictures I took on Sunday.... []
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Old 09-22-2008, 02:15 PM
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Default RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K

[X(]The perfect title for picture #3...... ]"Crunch Time" [/i][/b][&o]

Now, where did I put my Jack Daniels?.... er, uh, forgot...I finished it off last night[:@]
Old 09-22-2008, 02:57 PM
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Default RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K

Hi Richard,

i am very sorry about your Gee Bee. really bad from your engine. look forward and i hope your Gee Bee story goes on.


greetings from germany
Carsten
Old 09-22-2008, 03:06 PM
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Default RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K

Danke.

I intend to return this GeeBee to flying condition, and probably, to obtain another CompARF R2.

The plane is well thought out, durable, very scale, flies superb, and for my money, is THE MOST impressive plane ever to be seen at any flight line... but, then, I absolutely LOVE the GeeBee racers.

However, it requires a very large commitment from the pilot/builder. NOT for the faint of heart.[]

Viele Flüge glücklich!

Richard
Old 09-24-2008, 11:06 PM
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Default RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K

Richard, what a heart breaker. Sorry to hear it. But hey, if it's easy then it's just too boring. DWR.
Old 09-29-2008, 04:18 AM
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Default RE: Composite-Arf 33% Gee Bee R2 - First Flight - Pics - Videos - L@@K

I love these things. If I had more dollars than sense one would be sitting in my living room. That red and black plane that shows on the main page is sick. Has some nice flames going on. Goulda been ugly but he pulled it off.

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