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Pilot R/C, 37% (100cc) Edge 540

Old 10-09-2011, 09:28 AM
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Tired Old Man
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Default Pilot R/C, 37% (100cc) Edge 540

I have not perused this forum in a couple of years but due to the extreme generousity of Aussiesteve, Apalsson, Super08, JediJody, Tseres, JNorton, and others yet to be named, I'm starting an assembly thread for the 37% Pilot Edge. To find out more about their generousity you'll need to consult the following link to the Gas Engine Forum: [link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10732164/tm.htm[/link] It's 8 pages (so far) of some fun reading.

Hopefully this will be a pretty comprehensive assembly thread, starting with how Pilot packs their products for shipping, the installation of an engine that's not part of the usual manufacturer group, and many of the installation and equipment decisions made along the way. I'll try to provide a lot of pictures. Understand it will not be a fast moving thread because of work requirements, but it should get done in time for people that might be interested in the same plane to make a purchase and be ready to fly using this thread for info before the next flying season comes around.

The engine will be an MVVS 116, decked out with MVVS cans and headers. Radio may be Airtronics or JR. Haven't decided on that yet. Batteries will be A-123's. I don't run ignitions from a flight battery, ever, and the MVVS ignition requires a higher battery voltage, so there will be a separate ignition battery. Servos have not been decided on yet but since all the better digitals and receivers can handle the direct voltage provided by A-123's there is no reason to bother with a "high voltage" servo or regulators. I'll likely make all my own control linkage from carbon tube and 4-40 all thread. For those budget minded that's a good place to save some bucks. Tailwheel will be a J&J unit since I have a couple on hand.

A lot of people came together to make this happen, for which I'm truly grateful. Some mention should be made of Chief's Aircraft, who worked with Super08 and JediJody to move the plane northwards.
Old 10-09-2011, 10:53 AM
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Default RE: Pilot R/C, 37% (100cc) Edge 540

First picture post: The packages and packing.

The plane arrives in the usual two carboard boxes. The fuselage arrives in a very long box, about or a little more than 8' in length. You'll note the fuselage box weighs a bit more than you might normally anticipate. The pictures are annotated to explain why.

In my opinion Pilot packs their planes for shipping better than what is experienced with a Comp Arf. More than a little pre-planning was done by Pilot to assure their customers received an undamaged product. When veiwed from a business finance position that makes a lot of sense. It's hard for a company to make money when they are having to provide second planes to replace those damaged in transit. The shipping and labor costs involved with replacements and dealing with shipping company insurers can zero out profitability in short order. Worse is dealing with unhappy customers and the negative impact of their posts over the internet.
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Old 10-09-2011, 02:15 PM
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Default RE: Pilot R/C, 37% (100cc) Edge 540

Going through the hardware package and you find you won't be doing any work or spending money for control linkages. It's all there for you to bolt on and adjust already. Pics of the hardware package and accessories below.
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Old 10-10-2011, 01:01 PM
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Default RE: Pilot R/C, 37% (100cc) Edge 540

It comes with a spinner? Is it similar to a no limitz? that spinner would usually cost around 60$ if purchased seperate, its a nice touch to be supplied in colour.
Old 10-10-2011, 05:48 PM
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apalsson
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Default RE: Pilot R/C, 37% (100cc) Edge 540

Subscribed!

Old 10-10-2011, 06:00 PM
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Default RE: Pilot R/C, 37% (100cc) Edge 540


ORIGINAL: nitro wing

It comes with a spinner? Is it similar to a no limitz? that spinner would usually cost around 60$ if purchased seperate, its a nice touch to be supplied in colour.

higly dout he's going to use that plastic spinner .. and it's what a 5 " ? 60 dollers ? lol bit on the low side

Old 10-10-2011, 06:13 PM
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Default RE: Pilot R/C, 37% (100cc) Edge 540

It's not a plastic spinner, it's painted carbon fiber.
Old 10-10-2011, 06:22 PM
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Default RE: Pilot R/C, 37% (100cc) Edge 540

and quite good quality too
Old 10-10-2011, 10:05 PM
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awd
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Default RE: Pilot R/C, 37% (100cc) Edge 540

Great to see love pilot kits and will follow the build interested to see how the MVVS 116 goes a nice engine.

cisco
Old 10-11-2011, 04:11 AM
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Default RE: Pilot R/C, 37% (100cc) Edge 540

OK. I found it.
Old 10-11-2011, 03:33 PM
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Default RE: Pilot R/C, 37% (100cc) Edge 540

Subscribed.
John
Old 10-11-2011, 11:11 PM
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Default RE: Pilot R/C, 37% (100cc) Edge 540

great thread! Subscribed!

i just finished up a pilot yak54 myself..... it's got to be the most complete(hardware) and best built ARF i have ever assembled, and light too

all the HW was usable... i didnt use the fiberglass arms though, i decided to go with aluminum arms, and i like using my own fuel tanks,
Old 10-12-2011, 05:43 PM
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Default RE: Pilot R/C, 37% (100cc) Edge 540

ORIGINAL: nitro wing

It comes with a spinner? Is it similar to a no limitz? that spinner would usually cost around 60$ if purchased seperate, its a nice touch to be supplied in colour.
ORIGINAL: zacharyR









higly dout he's going to use that plastic spinner .. and it's what a 5 '' ? 60 dollers ? lol bit on the low side


Hey what the hell is wrong with you? You always got some dumb remark on my posts, lay off a bit and grow up OK? Better yet, get some more experience all around, before flapping your mouth. A good 5 inch can be had at close to this cost I Suggested. If they put a carbon in there, even better.
http://www.performancercaircraft.com...roducts_id=132
Sorry TOM for the rude interuption.
Old 10-12-2011, 06:37 PM
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Default RE: Pilot R/C, 37% (100cc) Edge 540

ORIGINAL: nitro wing

It comes with a spinner? Is it similar to a no limitz? that spinner would usually cost around 60$ if purchased separate, its a nice touch to be supplied in color.

I use the No Limitz spinner. They are a great spinner at a reasonable price. I actually have 4 of them. Once I figured out how to cut them I began to like them better then the precut ones. They turn out with a more pleasing gap by the prop.
With the Pilot kits you don't have to worry about spending extra money for one. The spinners I've seen were very high Quality and would definitely use it if they came with the kit. Even tho the gap by the prop is not what I like.

PS: The white 2 blade Biela was attached to a YDA.
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Old 10-12-2011, 06:59 PM
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nitro wing
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Default RE: Pilot R/C, 37% (100cc) Edge 540

I have a few PAU spinners, perhaps made by No Limitz, I get them uncut, since I often use MSC props and other brands that may not be available pre cut. Once roughed out, they seem to be easily shaped with finer paper by hand to make minor adjustments. They seem to run true and stay put with out issues so far (3 years)
Old 10-12-2011, 08:31 PM
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Default RE: Pilot R/C, 37% (100cc) Edge 540

Tom,

I might be going with the lighter No Limitz myself on this one. I'll be hangin' a bit heavy up front with the 116 and cans, The No Limitz is considerably lighter that the provided spinner. If I recall, a 5" No limitz comes in a shade over 4 ounces. I still need to weigh the production spinner but I already know it's more than 4 oz.

You are dead on right about cutting them. It's pretty easy once you learn how to establish blade shapes (shape gauge and poster board) and remember to offset the little bit of step in the backplate during the cutting process. Once the initial cut is made some 320 sandpaper fine tunes the cut and away you go. I've been using them since I found them at Esprit Models some years back. Never had a balance issue of any note and none have ever failed. Even had one on another Edge survive a one wing missing slide through a ploughed farm field. Did better than the rest of the plane did

Zach,

No bickerering with the other readers in this thread. Go to town with me if you want but this is going to be a fun thread. However, I DO sometimes enjoy a good go round Best be prepared[8D]

Pics of the major plane components and engine will be next up on the photo list. Then we'll start moving forward with the component selections and assembly process. There will be some things a bit different from the usual installations since an MVVS 116 is going up front. I'm doing this on two forums and working a day job so please be patient with me.
Old 10-12-2011, 08:36 PM
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Default RE: Pilot R/C, 37% (100cc) Edge 540

OK, Zee Plane. Note the rudder pull-pull cables. The plane arrives with those already done if you go the pull-pull route. If not, servo bays are already available in the tail.
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:48 PM
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Default RE: Pilot R/C, 37% (100cc) Edge 540

Next, the engine. This is an item that will raise some eyebrows with a few people. Yes, the combined package of engine, ignition, and cans comes in a bit on the heavy side. However, the plane has the size and areas to effectively carry them. Yes, it will take some planning and "non standard" placement of some items to offset the increased weight but the available power will more than offset the pound of extra weight over the more popular engines. It will require more thought and effort than the usual engne mounting but it will be worth it.

You DA and 3w guys can eat your hearts out. Nothing like having a 116cc engine with power nearly equal a 150. Think 30" propeller. Hmmm, shoulda done that with my BME now that I'm thinking of it. 29" anyway. For those curious, the MVVS 116 is not supposed to turn high RPM. 6,400 or so. The manufacturer makes a statement not to use a prop that will turn up into the 7k range during a ground run.

To remain in character I'll say this; If you are a person that would buy a computer without first realizing that it needs to be plugged into the wall to work, don't go with the MVVS. It WILL require modification of a firewall to install correctly. The Pilot Edge assists such modifications because the engine/firewall set back is established by the user. They should all be that way, which is how you would set up a kit plane if you were doing a stick build. So if you can handle a tape measure and a razor saw combined with a little extra thoughtful planning, the MVVS may be something you will really enjoy. It will not be difficult to mount. Just slightly different on the top.

Some interesting features about the cans and headers. They do not connect with a clamp over a silicone hose. They use a short flex coupler that is held in place with factory provided springs affixed to flanges on the header and cans. There is also the option of using safety wire to achieve the same end.

The standoffs are of two different lengths to accomodate an upper cross tie (bridge) provided with the engine to unite the top side of a firewall should it be removed to facilitate engine installation. On this plane that will happen. Some weight can be saved by using wood standoffs instead of the metal ones provided. I don't know the material type but the factory provided units are beefy. The open space available at the back of the mounting lugs and between the engine and carb is pretty near large enough to use 1" square hardwood stock for standoffs if desired. Use m6 bolts for the fasteners.

For you folks that pay attention to cylinder head temps. Ever notice how one cylinder always runs hotter than the other? That's because of the way the intake charge is introduced into the crankcase. Using a centrally located induction port establishes an unbalanced charge when it reaches the cylinder because of the crank counter balances. One cylinder receives more fuel than the other. MVVS addresses that with the offset intake plenums. Neat.
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:55 PM
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Default RE: Pilot R/C, 37% (100cc) Edge 540

For those interested, the cylinder porting of an MVVS 116 is substantially different from what is seen in most engines. The 116 does not use the typical three port (intake and boost) design, instead using what you might call an opposed quad port design without having the third, or intake port, opposite the exhaust port. Very similar to what Honda uses in their high performance two stroke engines. Lots of overlap and angled to assist the exhaust port in boosting the intake charge. The cylinder has a well defined, machine quality, squish band and an ample hemispherical combustion chamber. The spark plug is centered in the top of the chamber to establish an even combustion kernal. The chrome chrome liner is a true hard chrome instead of the usual "flame" plating used in most engines. To peel the chrome out of one of these cylinders would probably leave a big hole in the outside of the cylinder. I don't believe it can be done.

The installation will require a bit more planning and work that the usual engine type but the benefits should more than offset the detractors. Pipes are a little different as well. The pipe wall sheeting is not the typical thin stuff and is not subject to caving in at the lightest touch. The end of the pipes bears the mounting system, using a round recess to be inserted over a rod or dowel to support the aft end of the can. Of course one could use the industry standard circumference support if they desired.More work and weight that way though. The sleeve coupler and spring fasteners means you can remove one can or both without having to destroy part of the installation equipment (silicone sleeve) in the process.

The ignition system requires a higher voltage than most ignitions, making a 2 cell li-po a good candidate for ignition power. So for those that like driving an ignition off of flight batteries (I do not) it would not work unless you were using a higher voltage flight battery system. That would require regulating down for the flight servos or the use of over priced high voltage flight servos.
Old 10-12-2011, 08:58 PM
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Default RE: Pilot R/C, 37% (100cc) Edge 540

Since we're on the subject of engines I'll bring up a tidbit that will ease engine mounting.

The crankshaft centerline falls in the exact center of the mounting plate, making mounting template construction real simple. All the mounting leg holes are equidistant from the crankshaft centerline, at roughly 2.522" crank center to mounting hole center. Distance between mounting holes is roughly 3.545".

I'll make up a template and post pics in here when it's done. I'll strongly suggest making a template before mounting the engine to assist central or offset engine placement and promote easier trimming work for the intake manifold and carb. A simple square ply plate with a 3/8" wood dowel extending out from the center will be all that's required.

One could, if they foolishly desired, mount the engine flat to a firewall without any standoffs at all but that would be havoc with cylinder cooling. At least an inch, perhaps a little more, should be allowed for.

I haven't done an assembly thread in a long time. Forgot how much detail goes into one. Now the hard part starts. I need to get into the assembly phase and associated documentation. Pardon me while I take a breath for a couple days before starting that part.
Old 10-12-2011, 10:04 PM
  #21  
apalsson
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Default RE: Pilot R/C, 37% (100cc) Edge 540

Good thread Pat!
I really look forward to seeing the assembly photos. Obviously, I will shamelesslyu replicate your work when I do the same kind of an installation into my Sbach

To the contrary to comon belief, there is more to a top quality model airplane in this size class than shaving off every gram (ounce for you Americans )
The power in those things when set up right is pretty awesome! I recently witnessed a 42% Edge flying unrestricted aerobatics on a 116cc and if anything could be said, it was not short on power!
Old 10-13-2011, 05:33 AM
  #22  
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Default RE: Pilot R/C, 37% (100cc) Edge 540

Here is the dummy Engine I use. It is a one size fits all unit.

Very easy to use - Stand the plane on its tail, place the dummy engine on the firewall location, install the cowl, move the "engine" around to find the centre point and mark the centre. From there you can mark out the mounting holes etc. Sorry the photos are from 2 concurrent builds I have going on and neither is the same plane as T.O.M. is building - but you get the drift.




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Old 10-13-2011, 05:47 AM
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Default RE: Pilot R/C, 37% (100cc) Edge 540

For the Rear carb clearance a 75mm (3") holesaw will cut a decent starting clearance for just about any Carb used in our hobby. Some will require minor dremel work to clear Carb shafts after that (Especially if you don't allow for the carb offset).
(again - not the same plane and engine as the thread is about - just a build I have handy at the moment)
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Old 10-13-2011, 05:54 AM
  #24  
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Default RE: Pilot R/C, 37% (100cc) Edge 540

Pat
Make sure you vacuum out the fuselage real well before running the engine

Otherwise this can happen - MVVS 116 with just under an hour on it - it "discovered" a loose washer floating around the fuselage, luckily it never made it to the cylinders and only jammed between the crank and the crankcase.
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Old 10-13-2011, 06:33 AM
  #25  
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Default RE: Pilot R/C, 37% (100cc) Edge 540

Steve:

Ouch! Thanks for the advice.

We use a similar engine jig. About the only difference between your jig and mine is that I make them engine specific with the positions of the engine lug mounting holes on the jig for easy transfer to the firewall.

Ari:

Regarding aircraft weights. You are so right about not needing to be a featherweight. Anyone that wants a plane to perform good tumbles eventually learns having a little more weight than a foamie, or heavier than foamie response, makes for better tumbles. It's a weight dynamics thing. If you understand aerodynamics and true control functions a few extra ounces in the right places makes for a better flying aircraft. If all you know is flying the prop blast you end up a bit limited in your capabilities, and take it in the shorts when a plane gets into a deep stall. You don't have to be the world's best 3d flyer to understand and take advantage of that.

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