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Digital Servo Programmer or Matchbox?

Old 08-24-2003, 11:52 PM
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capngriz
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Default Digital Servo Programmer or Matchbox?

This may be a dumb question, but i need the answer. I'm going to gas and bigger (105" Edge) and my ailerons will need two servos (5945's) for each surface. Can I simply match them up using Hitec's programmer, or will I need a Matchbox to keep them from fighting each other?
Old 08-25-2003, 12:01 AM
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CrashMeister
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Default Digital Servo Programmer or Matchbox?

Save yourself a bunch of $$$ and get the programmer. It's all you need. You buy it ONCE and program all your servos with it, no matter how many per surface. You can even Y your elevator servos because you can reverse the direction of one, then program them to match up exactly.

Craig H.
Old 08-25-2003, 12:54 AM
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Mustang51
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Default Digital Servo Programmer or Matchbox?

Originally posted by CrashMeister
Save yourself a bunch of $$$ and get the programmer. It's all you need. You buy it ONCE and program all your servos with it, no matter how many per surface. You can even Y your elevator servos because you can reverse the direction of one, then program them to match up exactly.

Craig H.
NOT TRUE.
A Hytech programer is around $150 (I think). It programs ONLY HYTECH DIGITAL servos... not ALL servos.

A "Matchbox" is around $60. It will "match" and adjust ALL non digital servos. You can do almost the same thing with it as you can with a programmer.

-Mustang51
Old 08-25-2003, 01:00 AM
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capngriz
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Default Programmer

Thanks for your responses. My buddy has a programmer, so I can save some real bucks there. I've just had a couple of guys tell me that I would still need a matchbox. I don't want to make any stupid mistakes.
Old 08-25-2003, 01:44 AM
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CAPtain232
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Default Digital Servo Programmer or Matchbox?

The concept of the PROGRAMMER is really excellent and I know that ALL of the servo manufacturers could do something similar. I have heard several mixed feelings about it. I do not own one and I do use JR MATCHBOXES. I think if the manufacturers really wanted to do the hobby a favor, the would make the servos and or a programmer UNIVERSAL.
Old 08-25-2003, 02:03 AM
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mglavin
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Default Digital Servo Programmer or Matchbox?

The whole concept behind the programmable servos is to have the ability to make them work as needed, be it travel direction ,speed, end-point, center, deadband, fail-safe and more.

If you have Hitec digitals and access to a Hitec programmer a JR Matchbox is undesirable... Why add complexity and multiple failure modes and what about the multiple costs of the boxes.

Rumor has it JR has seen the light and has programmable stuff in the mill! I doubt they'll use a Hitec programmer. Anywho, why not buy one programmer that allows you to program your servos and test any servos, RX and TX's. Make sense to me.
Old 08-25-2003, 09:15 AM
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bob_nj
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Default My Experience

I have a 40% 3W 330S with two servos on each aileron. I also have 3 8411's ganged on the rudder. Since the rudder servos are so close together, the matchbox was necessary. In contrast, since the aileron servos are spaced much farther apart, they work fine with no matchbox. Works for me_bob
Old 08-25-2003, 12:05 PM
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eagle4442
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Default Digital Servo Programmer or Matchbox?

I use both JR 8411 and Hitec 9545 servos. The only time I use a matchbox is with the 8411's. My buddy and I split the cost of a Hitec programmer so I just use it to set the center and throws when using the 9545's.
Old 08-25-2003, 12:52 PM
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DENNIS C
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Default Digital Servo Programmer or Matchbox?

Rumor has it JR has seen the light and has programmable stuff in the mill! I doubt they'll use a Hitec programmer. Anywho, why not buy one programmer that allows you to program your servos and test any servos, RX and TX's. Make sense to me.

Hi mike, so your saying the hitec programmer will do the jr servos
Old 08-25-2003, 01:33 PM
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mglavin
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Default Digital Servo Programmer or Matchbox?

Originally posted by bodymann
Hi mike, so your saying the hitec programmer will do the jr servos

NOT likley... My comments were aimed on the Hitec programmers abilities.
Old 08-25-2003, 02:31 PM
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rusty55125
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Default hitec programer

I think these programmers are really the way to go and an excellent idea. The match box concept is bad, it adds another connection (loss of power) and something that you have to trouble shoot if something goes wrong in your setup. The match box is just a quick fix to a problem these large multi servoed planes have. No servo is the same as another.
I just completed the Hanger 9 Ultimate with eight servos in the wings and two in the Elevator (going to Four), that's a lot of match boxes. This one installation would paid for the programmer, not counting the fact that the Hitec are less expensive and stronger, quicker servos (granted this is the spec on the servo). $150 is a good investment and worth the money. I have been using Futaba and JR stuff for years and they are all excellent products but if they don't provide this kind of option really soon, they will be left behind. Let's hope they see the light and follow Hitec's lead.

Rusty
Old 08-25-2003, 04:34 PM
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dirtybird
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Default Re: Programmer

Originally posted by capngriz
Thanks for your responses. My buddy has a programmer, so I can save some real bucks there. I've just had a couple of guys tell me that I would still need a matchbox. I don't want to make any stupid mistakes.
Did they say why you would need a matchbox too?
BTW all of the mistakes I have been stupid. I never made a smart mistake in my life!
Old 08-25-2003, 06:10 PM
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Mustang51
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Default Digital Servo Programmer or Matchbox?

Again...
The hitech programmer ONLY PROGRAMS HITECH DIGITAL SERVOS.
It will NOT program ANY OTHER SERVO (digital or other)(Hitech, Futaba JR, ect....).

A matchbox "programs" ALL TYPES OF SERVOS, ALL MAKES.
(Digital and analog). The "Matchbox" is the "brain" in this case.
With digitals, they have "their own brain".

The "Matchbox"(along with Futabas entry), is the way to go when you are using NON DIGITAL servos. ie. multi engine\throttle servos(who would go the expense of digitals on throttles?), OR, you want to stay away from the high cost of the digitals all together.

-Mustang51
Old 08-25-2003, 06:43 PM
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CAPtain232
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Default Digital Servo Programmer or Matchbox?

A matchbox "programs" ALL TYPES OF SERVOS, ALL MAKES.

Just so there is no CONFUSION....

The matchbox does NOT program the servo(s) that is attached to it. In the most simple terms, it alters the signal from the receiver to the servo. If it programmed the servo, you would not have to keep it inline with the servo.

MUSTANG51....I know that this is what you were saying, but what you actually stated could be confusing to someone that doesn't know better
Old 08-25-2003, 07:42 PM
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Mustang51
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Default Digital Servo Programmer or Matchbox?

Originally posted by CAPtain232
Just so there is no CONFUSION....

The matchbox does NOT program the servo(s) that is attached to it. In the most simple terms, it alters the signal from the receiver to the servo. If it programmed the servo, you would not have to keep it inline with the servo.

MUSTANG51....I know that this is what you were saying, but what you actually stated could be confusing to someone that doesn't know better
That's why I used "quotation marks" around "programs". I think most would get the "meaning" by what I wrote within my post, but I(WE) thank you for further clarifying what's being discussed here.


-Mustang51
Old 08-25-2003, 09:13 PM
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JohnVH
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Default Digital Servo Programmer or Matchbox?

If you like hitec servo's, for digitals get a programmer. If you like JR buy matchboxes. I have 3 in my plane. That should be simple enough.
Old 08-25-2003, 10:11 PM
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DENNIS C
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Default Digital Servo Programmer or Matchbox?

Is it really that simple
Old 08-26-2003, 12:11 AM
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CrashMeister
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Default Digital Servo Programmer or Matchbox?

Originally posted by Mustang51
NOT TRUE.
A Hytech programer is around $150 (I think). It programs ONLY HYTECH DIGITAL servos... not ALL servos.

A "Matchbox" is around $60. It will "match" and adjust ALL non digital servos. You can do almost the same thing with it as you can with a programmer.

-Mustang51
OK, let me explain this one more time.

I have three pairs of servos (2 per each aileron, two on the rudder) on each of two different planes. Matchboxes required = 6; 6 x $60 = $360. ONE programmer (shared with a buddy) = $75. Now, you can get Hitec 5945's for $75, and there are eight per plane = 16 servos. JR-8411 is $100 each. So, saving of $25 per servo (x16) = $400.

Total saving = 400 + 360 - 75 = $685, almost enough to buy another 1/3 scale ARF.

Now, just to add to the equation, a Hitec Digital can be programmed to set (up to servo specs):

* speed,
* ATV up to 90 degrees in each direction,
* direction (clockwise or counterclockwise),
* deadband (sensitivity around neutral),
* center point,
* failsafe position.

I really don't think a matchbox comes close.
Case closed.
Good Bye.

Craig H.
Old 08-26-2003, 12:38 AM
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Mustang51
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Default Digital Servo Programmer or Matchbox?

Originally posted by CrashMeister
OK, let me explain this one more time.

I have three pairs of servos (2 per each aileron, two on the rudder) on each of two different planes. Matchboxes required = 6; 6 x $60 = $360. ONE programmer (shared with a buddy) = $75. Now, you can get Hitec 5945's for $75, and there are eight per plane = 16 servos. JR-8411 is $100 each. So, saving of $25 per servo (x16) = $400.

Total saving = 400 + 360 - 75 = $685, almost enough to buy another 1/3 scale ARF.

Now, just to add to the equation, a Hitec Digital can be programmed to set (up to servo specs):

* speed,
* ATV up to 90 degrees in each direction,
* direction (clockwise or counterclockwise),
* deadband (sensitivity around neutral),
* center point,
* failsafe position.

I really don't think a matchbox comes close.
Case closed.
Good Bye.

Craig H.
LISTEN YOU RUDE P$*#*
YOU don't have to explain ANYTHING to ME!
Your 1st post was NOT CLEAR. It was Mis-informed and Mis-leading. You did not ONCE mention sharing the cost of a programmer with a "friend", nor did you state at any point what servos you were using. You were COMPLETELY misleading.
Capngriz asked a question... A legitimate one at that.
You answered it in a Mis leading way. I merely tried to clarify it for him, as CAPtain232 tried to clarify one of my posts.

You wan'na help this guy? Do it in an informative manner, but don't come down on someone that catches your ignorance and calls you on it.

Case Closed... Yourself
and
Goodbye ...Yourself

-Mustang51
Old 08-26-2003, 11:31 AM
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rcplanefan
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Default Digital Servo Programmer or Matchbox?

OK, all of you Hitec programmer gurus, help me out here. My buddy has a 40% RadioCraft Extra. We are installing 3 aileron servos in each wing (all Hitec 5945's). We think the control horns are all the same distance back from the hinge line, but they may not be perfect. So here is the question, and we have been dinking around with this for a while without a solution.

How do you program the servos to elminate the binding? If we build a fixture to mount the servo in, and then program the center and endpoint to be the same, how can we be sure that the geometry of the linkages is perfect enough for them to match? We've tried this, but invariably, there is a little buzz at one endpoint or another. Then, we have to remove the servo, reprogram, and try again. All in all, this seems to be a bit tedious and I am wondering if there is a better way? Is there a way to do this in the plane?

I have 4 matchboxes in my 40% Carden Extra. Setup took about 10 minutes per surface to get everything perfect. Another couple of hours to get everything mounted. I was using Futaba 9206's so I couldn't use the programmer. We're about to dump the programmer and go buy matchboxes to do the Radiocraft because I know that we can get it done in one evening, unless somebody can help me understand how to make this thing work easily.

Any help out there?

Ken
Old 08-26-2003, 12:20 PM
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rusty55125
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Default Hitec programer

The one fault in the programmer, if this is really a fault, it only works on one servo at a time. My recommendation is to install the wing servos with as many extensions as there are servos so the leads extend past the wing root. Once this is done, adjust the center and endpoints of each servo while in the plane by whatever measuring means necessary. I did this on my Hanger 9 Ultimate, four wing panels took only about five minutes, I almost spend more time plugging in the leads than programming, plus we did it at the field. If you don't wish to leave the leads in the plane during flight then remove the leads and install whatever you like. The servo should be OK at this point.
One other thing to keep in mind is that when you adjust the center of the servo, if the number is anything other than 0, you need to compensate the endpoint that same amount to get it right. Example center ( +5), left (+125) right (-115). I am not sure which one is positive and negative, but you should get the point. When the center is shifted, the endpoints need to have the same shift. Notice that the difference between the center and the end points is 120, THIS IS IMPORTANT . This is not in the manual, at least I donít remember it being there and I only found this out by trial and error.
Hope this helps.


Rusty
Old 08-26-2003, 12:23 PM
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bob_nj
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Default Da Plane_Da Plane

Program them in the plane. Here is a thread where I asked a similar question...
intheplane]
Old 08-26-2003, 12:55 PM
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mglavin
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Default Digital Servo Programmer or Matchbox?

Accurately make sure all the control arm pivots are equally spaced from the hinge line, this commonly missed as you eluded too.

Is it possible the link or push-rod needs to be adjusted slightly while the surface is deflected and buzzing?

One can always go in and reprogram the servo end-point. Albeit, I have never had to do this. But I can see the merit in this approach. The method suggested and authored by Craig known as "iteration' works well.
Old 08-27-2003, 12:08 AM
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capngriz
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Default glad to see

that i'm not the only one with questions on this topic. Let's keep it going, there's some great info in this thread
Old 08-27-2003, 01:46 AM
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Default A trick on ganged servos (hitec only)

I run Hitec digitals on my stuff. The best way to reduce buzzing and binding is to do the following.

1: match the servos outside the airplane with a protractor set up.

2: match the linkages by good building techniques.

3: once installed and connected, make one servo the "main" servo by setting the deadband to 1 or 2 ms.

4: set the other servos to 3 to 5 ms.

This will make the other servos a little less sensitive around center, but they "kick in" as the surface starts to move.

This is the biggest and best diff over the matchbox.

Just my 2 cents.

Mike

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