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Gear Delaminating

Old 09-08-2003, 07:58 AM
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RickP
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Default Gear Delaminating

Well,
It finally started to happen. I have the "Fiber Classics" version of the 33% 330L (gear with the plywood inserts). I was flying at my first contest this weekend and kinda bounced it a little. Up untill now I have been greasing it in so smooth it has not been an issue 20 flights later. I guess I was a little "dumb thumbed" at my first contest and I heard it "POP" when it came down. I guess it was harder then I should have landed, but now that it's split I hear it wont take long.
I flew it the rest of the weekend with no ill effects, but you can tell that side is much softer now. What did the rest of you guys do?
RickP
Old 09-08-2003, 10:08 AM
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RightThrust
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Default RE: Gear Delaminating

I've heard of fixing delaminated gear with CA. If you can find an open crack or area of seperating where you can pour some thin CA down I think that will tighten it up. I've never had cg gear so I can't speak from experience. But I've heard of that being done.

-Kelly
Old 09-08-2003, 08:40 PM
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Scott H.
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Default Thin CA works awesome!

I just finished repairing my gear after dead-sticking my Cap right into a fence [:'(]

I spread the gear open far enough to get the CA to flow all the way through. I flexed it a few times to make sure there was no air trapped inside. Then let it set up overnight.
I think this is the strongest part of the gear now! I just went out and tryed to flex it really hard.

I wish the LG plate was this easy to fix!

Best of luck,

Scott
Old 09-09-2003, 06:51 AM
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ballistic1
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Default RE: Thin CA works awesome!

Rick, I wouldent mess with the gear,as if it fails it will damage that great looking plane you have .
I would get ahold of someone and get the new revised gear . It is solid carbon fibre and very solid
Old 09-09-2003, 07:23 AM
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RickP
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Default RE: Thin CA works awesome!

Ballistic1,
I am going to do that. I tried the thin CA at the field, but it popped right back open as soon as I set the airplane on the ground. I just landed it nicey-nice and it's not a problem. I have seen some 40%ers this weekend that had delaminating worse then mine. I will get some new ones today...
Thanks,
RickP
Old 09-09-2003, 11:17 AM
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JB Rekit
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Default RE: Gear Delaminating

I used CA and 6-32 bolts with 3/4" wide washers to hold together the delaminated area and repaired mine at the IMAC constest when it delaminated to finish out the weekend, but I would not reccomend trying to permantently fix it. I was lucky that the whole left side of the gear did not break off b/c it was already cracking on the top.

Carbon fiber is very strong until it gets damaged, and after that it is pretty useless for anything needing much structural support. Just like props. A tiny scratch can cause a tip to delaminate and fly off.
Old 09-09-2003, 04:04 PM
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RickP
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Default RE: Gear Delaminating

I called Planes Plus, they told me they no longer sell this model or carry parts to support it. They said all support would have to come from the Composit ARF representitive. I am not still to clear what happend, but a little disappointed. A model I purchased in February, is no longer supported by September. We will see how Composit ARF deals with it.
Planes plus says they will have there own models out soon. Will that still be Fiber Classics? I know there are extenuating cercumstances that I'm getting caught up in, but sour grapes none the less.
RickP
Old 09-09-2003, 04:49 PM
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Default RE: Gear Delaminating

I would absolutely NOT recommend putting thin CA in the delaminations as a permanent fix. The CA will become brittle at this extremely high stress point (not necessarily landing, but taxiing is the real killer), and won't last long at all.

I repaired the carbon gear on my Extra by wrapping Kevlar tow around the entire joint, then bonding it to the gear with LOTS of thin CA. This way the kevlar takes the shock and not the glue joints, and as we all know kevlar is some strong stuff (as far as shock goes). You can get kevlar stuffs at any place that sells composites, like Fiber Glast out of Dayton, OH. They may also sell end rolls or scrap for cheap, which would be all you need really.

Also, if anyone uses gear from Graphtec, I will guarantee that the gear will fail within one year. I've had two sets fail in under 2 months, a friend had two sets fail in less than 1 month, and another gentleman has had his gear fail within a month, with NO hard landings whatsoever. They use no vacuum pressure, the wrong kind of resin (non-structural vinyl epoxy), and do not use the proper weave of carbon to make the gear strong in the areas it need to be (he just lays a bunch of carbon down and pours the glue on). If you have these gear, reinforce them anyway you possibly can or you WILL lose them, and possibly your plane as well.
Old 09-10-2003, 07:21 AM
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RickP
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Default RE: Gear Delaminating

Well,
The response is that I have to purchase a new set of gear. I'm pretty bummed about it since its something most people got for free as a defect. Now I have to pay $50 bucks for new gear. Would have rather bought antother prop....
RickP
Old 09-10-2003, 09:30 AM
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splais
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Default RE: Gear Delaminating

One of the dirty little secrets about CF gear is that just about all of them will delaminate sooner or later. The issue of sooner or later depends on how good you are and how many landings the gear has on it. It is the nature of the beast. Think about it. Everytime one of those $50 gear hits the ground it flexes a little no matter how soft you land. Over time the fibers begin to separate. It is unavoidable. I do believe how long your gear lasts depends a lot on the quality. And $45-$50 does not necessarily indicate quality. I will say I have a couple of Bolly CF gear that are holding up great. I have also had a couple of other well advertized CF gear delaminate in only a few flight. Actually, just one hard landing will do it.
Old 09-10-2003, 04:20 PM
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Default RE: Gear Delaminating

Being a composite tech for a defense contractor, www.mission.com, I can safely say that there is no question at all that you can make a carbon gear that can withstand landings that would crush the plane, again and again. The simple fact is that making this kind of gear would be too labor intensive for a business to make money at.

If you lay up a gear with unidirectional carbon running up and down the legs, alternating with some weave and layed up in a vacuum bag with proper resin, you could make a gear that could take any landing that 70% Staudacher will have for it's entire flying career. A layer of kevlar would be ideal to. It really wouldn't be all that labor intensive at all, I would make some but I have no time to do it in!

But hey you do what you like.
Old 09-10-2003, 04:26 PM
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Flyfalcons
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Default RE: Gear Delaminating

From what I understand, TNT makes aluminum gear for this plane. If my carbon gear delaminates, I'll probably switch to aluminum at that time.
Old 09-10-2003, 05:34 PM
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Default RE: Gear Delaminating

I did exactly what Ryan suggests when my CF lg of 30 flights or so delaminated - ordered from TNT. Supposedly this LG was made by hand using all the good stuff as Silvanskii outlines in an earlier message - and the price reflected that. I am now looking for weight reduction in other areas - and won't try a composite main lg again.

Dan
Old 09-10-2003, 06:24 PM
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lennyk
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Default RE: Gear Delaminating

I believe one of the major manufacturers had problems with their product and was sending replacements to people who had delamination problems.
Old 09-11-2003, 07:20 AM
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RickP
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Default RE: Gear Delaminating

Lenny,
That's what I'd do, but the original rep no longer carries the product, so I have to buy them. Composite ARF will cost 59 bucks shipped to my door. I'll check TnT.
RickP

FWIW, TNT's aluminum gear are the same price....
Old 09-12-2003, 08:09 PM
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rob g
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Default RE: Gear Delaminating

Well, at least you have something. FIRST flight, mine split with a greaser landing, (yes i would say that, I know). What have I had from fiber classics. Nothing. They gave me a lecture on how to fix it. One damaged wing where the wheel spat punched a hole, And a couple of holes in the side of the fuz as it peeled back.
There answer. I fixed it too firmly in. Hey, they right the instructions, I only follow em.

see for yourself

Regards
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Old 09-12-2003, 10:16 PM
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RickP
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Default RE: Gear Delaminating

Rob,
Too bad, That sux... Both delaminated? I admit, mine bounced pretty good, but I think it should have been able to take it. When it went it went with a POP! Scared me, but I had to take it off to see the hairline crack. I finally got to order them from C-ARF so we will see how long it takes...
Rick
Old 09-15-2003, 08:06 AM
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RickP
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Default RE: Gear Delaminating

Hey Rob,
I flew the plane this weekend and we had a pretty strong crosswind. I had to land with a bit of rudder to keep it stratight and it strained the gear pretty good. It bent back kind of how it looked in your middle picture and snapped right back out.
It didn't do any damage, but I put the airplane away since I didn't want to push it anymore. Now I'm at the mercy of Comp ARF. We will see how long it takes to deliver....
RickP
Old 09-15-2003, 12:03 PM
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rob g
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Default RE: Gear Delaminating

Hi Rick

Fiber classics are having none of it at this end.
I for one will not be buying another. There is something to be said for balsa and profilm.
Not much you can do about the landing gear issue Im afraid.
A mate of mine makes carbon undercarriages, Every plane I buy from now on gets his undercarriage bolted on. He has the shape for the 2.6extra. If you want more details, drop me a PM.

Another 2.6m fiberclassics was totalled at a show a couple of weeks ago, the only thing that survived was the u/c. (Which wasnt made by fiber classics.)

These things may be awesome flyers, but no good at any knocks or bangs.
Or landings when the uc is crap.

What gets me, is how come you fellas on your side of the pond, get looked after by planes plus, we just get shafted by FC.
Old 09-19-2003, 07:13 AM
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RickP
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Default RE: Gear Delaminating

Hey Rob,
Thanks for the tip, but -amazingly- there was a package at my door stoop last eveneing. They look good enough, got them all mounted up just one more wheel pant and I will be ready for the weekend.
RickP

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