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Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

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Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Old 05-02-2005, 01:21 AM
  #4576  
Gotta_Fly
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

OK here's the scoop on the maiden today(its about time the damn rain stopped)But anyway took off did a few trim laps, then some inverted stuff to make sure the engine didn't die on me, Checked my mid rates, then flipped on the high rates and man I had a blast from then on, I have never owned/flew a plane that responded like this, In fact this plane makes you fly a lot better then you really are, My girlfriend enjoys going to the field with me and she said wow is that you or the plane, so of coarse I had to keep up my man- hood and tell her that was all me and this plane anit sh%$, But I think she new better, But anyway I got in 6 flights today, and I have to say I cant wait to get Chris's 100cc comes in............


Randy
Old 05-02-2005, 02:45 AM
  #4577  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Vic3D:

[quote]RE: ... - 4/26/2005 7:54:39 PM

I talked to Chris this morning, and asked him when he expects the next shipment: he relunctantly mentioned "early June" as the factory's word, but he doesn't seem to hold much faith in that word...
I guess I am going to have to be reeeeaaalllllyyy paaaatttttiiiiieeeennntttt.... My DA 50 is also probably about 5 weeks out.
I have been drewling ever since watching wayne's video.

_____________________________

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[/quote
Old 05-02-2005, 07:17 AM
  #4578  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

ORIGINAL: DrScoles

I just posted that I ran out of fuel resulting in a crash... I was wrong, looking at the remains here on the workbench, there is a decent amount of fuel left.... just got unlucky with a flame out... happened as I was climbing out from a touch and go... about 30' up... firewall came off, landing gear ripped whole bottom of plane out... wings and stabs are perfect... already left message with Chris to order a fuse! I didn't have enough room to do a 180 to bring it back, I know I would have stalled it... so I just kept the wings level and landed it in the plowed field adjacent to ours...unfortunately it wasn't the nice soft freshly plowed dirt, rather the hard crusty stuff that likes to eat airplanes....[:@]

Oh well, not the end of the world....

Mike
DRScoles, sorry man, I hope the sting goes away after you get a new Fuse and get rid of the DA.

DA DEADSTICK...kills a plane. I HATE hearing about it. I am not putting my DA in this plane...I will put it in a an expendable plane. How many more planes is this engine going to kill?? Who's next??? Not me.

Dick , a whole lot of us are watching your progress with the ZDZ ....some of us don't want Frankenstein motors under "user based conditional development". Sounds like you are getting good numbers from that engine....hope it is flawless and gives us a nice "industrial reliable " option.

There are others here who will say it will fly like pooh with a ZDZ , but they hold their nose too high to see any benefit from a RELIABLE motor.
Old 05-02-2005, 08:36 AM
  #4579  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

My DA is running great! No problems. Idles fine, smoth transition.Zero deadsticks. Mine is a newer one, must be they got the bugs worked out. I see no reson to use anything other than the DA 50. Chris has designed it around the DA.
Penzoil 2 cycle oil for air cooled engines at 32:1 turning a 22x10 menz at 7100
Mine is setup with the KS 1060 pipe and a zero drop header(no flex section)The flex header is not needed on this plane. It kicks *****, Can't wait till its done with the break in, so I can go to the 23x8 mejlick or 24x8 menz.

Dave
Old 05-02-2005, 08:52 AM
  #4580  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: Dave763

I see no reson to use anything other than the DA 50. Chris has designed it around the DA.
So how many of the hangar 9 1/3 scale ARFs are using the Zenoah GT-80, since that's what they designed it for? I would imagine very few. since the zenoah is heavier, weaker and more expensive than many other good alternatives. How about all the Saitos "recommended" for the smaller Hangar 9 ARFs, no thanks, I'll use my YS 63 where they recommend the Saito 72, and I'll use my YS 120 instead of a Saito 150 or even 180. How about all the Great Planes kits, funny how they are all "designed" for OS engines, OH MY, I bet it won't fly with a Saito or YS. You guys know better, if the engine is comparable in weight and power, then it will fly just the same.
Old 05-02-2005, 08:55 AM
  #4581  
rmh
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Engines are like automobiles.
The opinions given, many times have nothing to do with actual experience.
All engines are definately NOT the same and performance is often linked to experience and familiarity with engines in general.
I have run very few modern gassers which are actually bad engines .
Most (99%) problems are owner /user induced.
I am also guilty -
doing my setup tests yesterday I could not get this otherwise easy starting engine to start -
short braps were all I could get.
It finally started --at full throttle.
Classic error - reversed the servo .
Anyway -the numbers I am getting are due to two things
1- the engine was setup and tested on a bench before ever going in the plane.
This allowed me to find out what the optimum pipe setup was for the props I would use .
2-I could try various timing/needle combos and read temps and rpms .

Once the engine went into the plane - I had a referrence point of what power to expect - transition , operating temp etc..
The hope and pray and "what my buddy said" approach is -in my book- no damn good.
The mufflers used can wreck power on ANY two stroker.
On the DA50 -the stock factory one runs the best.
It is very free flowing and tho noisy - it lets the engine run up.
The same muffler - also works very well on the ZDZ(and it fits ).
Tuned pipes properly setup are easily the best for power and some actually make better transition than the in cowl bolt ons .
Done incorrectly - they are an absolute pain in the butt.
The header from DA is the best going -I made my own -just like it -
This new AMT tuned pipe is my favorite - (and fits with a foot to spare )
it is sturdy as hell , weighs 10 ounces and throttle response improves and it is small and quiet.
I have used the KS-and theyalso work well but personally I prefer this one.
The rpm numbers are not guesses - we have used three tachs (all different brands) and they are all within same 100 rpm .
By the way, the most expensive ones we have used also agree within this same 100 rpm band.
Tachs are now like wristwatches - a 5 dollar digital is more accurate than a 20.000 dollar wind up watch.
so much for tachs.
Choose which engine suits yor fancy - then figure it out yourself, before you make any comments on it .
And don't try to compare rpm numbers between brands unles the exhaust /prop setups are optomized for each.
The DA50 setup like my engine should produce similar numbers .
No reason it won't.
Old 05-02-2005, 09:34 AM
  #4582  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

ORIGINAL: dick Hanson

Engines are like automobiles.
The opinions given, many times have nothing to do with actual experience.
All engines are definately NOT the same and performance is often linked to experience and familiarity with engines in general.
I have run very few modern gassers which are actually bad engines .
Most (99%) problems are owner /user induced.

AMEN!
Well said Dick.

Lots of Internet blabble that has no real merit.
Lots of first time gas users.

And since when does a deadstick automatically result in a crash?
Unless your hovering I dont see why a deadstick is going to kill your plane in most cases. Sure there will be the times when a deadstick in the wrong spot will result in a broken plane but to say that a deadstick = a crash is ludicrous.

Old 05-02-2005, 10:09 AM
  #4583  
flat spin
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

My last DA in this plane was a dog compared to this one, I am sure all down tothe reed valves but i had at least 10 deadsticks with it. The truth is you have so much time with this plane that unless you are unlucky you should not have any trouble getting it back down.

I also don't think there is any sort of allegience to DA here from EF other than they are the most powerfull lightest engines on the market and anyone designing a high performance plane would be crazy to design it around anything else. That said It is easy to fall into the trap of no DA no performance or you can't use anything else on this plane. This is exactly what happened with the 68" Yak and the YS 110. The truth is i know poeple running YW24's OS 91's Saito' various different sizes Moki 135 and having seen and flown a number of them they all fly great.

The only error you can make is not using the DA50 for want of extra power. If you don't like em have an alternative use a different engine you'll still end up with one heck of a plane. IMHO of course.
Old 05-02-2005, 10:20 AM
  #4584  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

I agree! I think we should stop the product hazing and just support what you have and chime in when it is appropriate. I have deadsticked several times and only riped out the gear on one plane. That was because of a strong head wind and couldn't quite make the runway and lost too much forward speed trying to strech for it, and I stalled. I think the DA50 is a great engine. I wish I had one, but I was too impatient, so I got the Brision. It will be fine! and that certainly doesn't make all other engines out there worthless hunks of metal......

And since when does a deadstick automatically result in a crash?
Unless your hovering I dont see why a deadstick is going to kill your plane in most cases. Sure there will be the times when a deadstick in the wrong spot will result in a broken plane but to say that a deadstick = a crash is ludicrous.
As I recall Wayne you had a Deadstick at the wrong time with the EF Prototype several years ago at the internet fly-in in Indiana. Sorry to bring that up, I am sure you have tried to forget.

Anyhow, funny but true, "Deadstick" does NOT equal crash. If you deadstick that much then I would suggest Electric for you. BTW there is a nice conversion for this plane a few pages back


"Red Bull" update. Pick up from J&M Builders this Tuesday, apply final Kirby's, Kregg's Cockpit conversion, final weight and balance check, and hopefully maiden on Sat. I'll make sure to have a full spread of photos for you here soon.....[:-]
Old 05-02-2005, 10:29 AM
  #4585  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

I agree with Dick, that most engine problems are user induced. I own several brands of engines, including Saito, YS, OS, 3W, and now a DA.
The fact that this Yak is designed for the DA is one of the reasons I wanted it. I am sure this plane would fly fantastic no matter which engine you choose(within reason).

Dave
Old 05-02-2005, 10:31 AM
  #4586  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: Bosshossv8

ORIGINAL: DrScoles

I just posted that I ran out of fuel resulting in a crash... I was wrong, looking at the remains here on the workbench, there is a decent amount of fuel left.... just got unlucky with a flame out... happened as I was climbing out from a touch and go... about 30' up... firewall came off, landing gear ripped whole bottom of plane out... wings and stabs are perfect... already left message with Chris to order a fuse! I didn't have enough room to do a 180 to bring it back, I know I would have stalled it... so I just kept the wings level and landed it in the plowed field adjacent to ours...unfortunately it wasn't the nice soft freshly plowed dirt, rather the hard crusty stuff that likes to eat airplanes....[:@]

Oh well, not the end of the world....

Mike
DRScoles, sorry man, I hope the sting goes away after you get a new Fuse and get rid of the DA.

DA DEADSTICK...kills a plane. I HATE hearing about it. I am not putting my DA in this plane...I will put it in a an expendable plane. How many more planes is this engine going to kill?? Who's next??? Not me.

Dick , a whole lot of us are watching your progress with the ZDZ ....some of us don't want Frankenstein motors under "user based conditional development". Sounds like you are getting good numbers from that engine....hope it is flawless and gives us a nice "industrial reliable " option.

There are others here who will say it will fly like pooh with a ZDZ , but they hold their nose too high to see any benefit from a RELIABLE motor.

ZDZ Flawless? DA Flawless? Come on man!!! Won't put a DA in anything but something expendable? Do you really flying R/C?? There are no flawless engines, nothing is for certain in this hobby. The quicker everyone realizes that the better off you will be. And some of you will never learn...That's ok..
Old 05-02-2005, 10:32 AM
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: Ricmussman

As I recall Wayne you had a Deadstick at the wrong time with the EF Prototype several years ago at the internet fly-in in Indiana. Sorry to bring that up, I am sure you have tried to forget.
Thats very true.
I was doing a harrier with the 28% Edge Proto when a solder joint on the ignition failed.

No airspeed + No motor = Broken prototype.

Old 05-02-2005, 10:35 AM
  #4588  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: Dave763

The fact that this Yak is designed for the DA is one of the reasons I wanted it.
I don't get it, the only thing I see that really makes it designed for the DA, is that you get a mounting template, other than that , the airplane is of the size and weight for any good 50 cc engine. heck, I can make a paper template for any engine out there, It didn't take me long at all to mount my Brison, I only had to take a few measurements, it was very simple. But then again, I can always get mine started, usually land on the runway even deadstick, can program my own radio, etc. I'm quite surprised that an airplane of this caliber has attracted such a seemingly inexperienced group.
Old 05-02-2005, 10:42 AM
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

AAHHH GEEEZ I thought you were going to blame the DA50 for that..... Just Kidding. In fact that was when the 50 was brand new before many ppl had them.

I wish the original stock models would have been equal to those proto-types, cause they were sweet fliers. I am glad that Chris stuck to his word on providing the best for us, but I am sad that we don't have an Edge, or Extra cause they were sweet. Wayne, Do you know what ever happend to the Extra 300 Proto Chris had? Or did the "ignition" die on that one too[:@], just kidding.
Old 05-02-2005, 10:48 AM
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wgeffon
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Ric,

Now that I think of it, was it the Edge or the Extra that went in that day?
You are correct, that was one of the very first DA-50's

I know one person who has the original Proto Edge still ( I think) He flew the crap out of it for a long time.
Maybe it was the Extra I smashed that day.


The good news (NOT) is that those designs are now available by the company that ripped Chris off.
(Sorry, couldnt resist)
Old 05-02-2005, 11:07 AM
  #4591  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

BBriBro, the fact that you "don't get it" does not surprise me. As far as being inexperienced, don't worry you'll get there someday if you keep at it.
ORIGINAL: BBriBro


ORIGINAL: Dave763

The fact that this Yak is designed for the DA is one of the reasons I wanted it.
I don't get it, the only thing I see that really makes it designed for the DA, is that you get a mounting template, other than that , the airplane is of the size and weight for any good 50 cc engine. heck, I can make a paper template for any engine out there, It didn't take me long at all to mount my Brison, I only had to take a few measurements, it was very simple. But then again, I can always get mine started, usually land on the runway even deadstick, can program my own radio, etc. I'm quite surprised that an airplane of this caliber has attracted such a seemingly inexperienced group.
Old 05-02-2005, 11:27 AM
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Torqued-Up
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Bottom line, this hobby is just like walking up to the craps table in Vegas... Everytime you roll the dice, you've got to be prepared to lose it all... Same with RC airplanes... Every time you walk up to the flight line, you've got to be prepare for someone to ask you "paper or plastic" when you put a smoking hole in the ground...

Doesn't matter if it's dumb-thumbs, bad solder joints, flaky engine performance, reversed servos, inexperience, or one of another 100 other things... Sometimes you get bit, even with the most diligent preparations...

On another note, this almost rabid product allegiance is still rather baffling to me... I use what works for me and I am more than happy to share this intel with other individuals... But, when product allegiance flies in the face of good judgement, I just have to scratch my head and wonder what color the sky is in your world... God forbid someone say something negative about DA or EF in this thread... You're likely to be run out of town on a rail if you so much as mutter that your dissatisfied with a twisted fuselage, mis-aligned stab tube or your brand new $550 DA 50cc engine threw a rod bearing... BTW, anyone notice that J.AVANT hasn't posted here since he was scalded with hot oil???

Lighten up guys... For most of us it's a hobby, not a profession...

Mark



Old 05-02-2005, 01:43 PM
  #4593  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

There is an old saying in this hobby
"If you cannot afford to lose it, do not put it in the air"
Jeff W.
Old 05-02-2005, 02:17 PM
  #4594  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Well maiden fault has come and gone, the plane is back in the hanger in one piece and the smile is still wide and the echo of applause still ringing in my ears!!

Faultless performance from the airframe 1 click of up elevator 1 click of right aileron..... cog' about half inch behind yellow line (6 7/8ths ish) very little down stick whilst inverted, very axial rolls, doesn't appear to snap out of tight loops despite almost full bevel to bevel throw!

Took it easy for about half a circuit (you can feel when a plane is right cant you!) then straight into knife edge wind was blowing around 17mph so didn't track as straight as I think it can, bunted up on rudder and hovered for a while wondering why I wasn't having to put much correction in to hold the hover vertical?
Opened up the DA whilst some wally started to chat to me distracted I took it up far to high, decided to see if would tumble and boy does it the wind was still blowing her around a lot so the tumbles were going all over the place, held her slightly nose high into wind chopped the throttle waited for the stall and waited and waited..... whilst waiting applied full left rudder full up opened the throttle corrected on a bit of right aileron and did a very impressive flat spin down to about 80ft, popped up into another hover drifted down wind some 80yards.. flew around for a while wondering what to attempt next then decided that was probably enough for a trimming flight brought her round for an approach chopped throttle over hedge and was very pleased to bring her in at my feet all be it a little short of the landing strip note! can carry more speed next time.

A couple more fights followed with a very gentle blender ending in a inverted flat spin and a very graceful looking knife edge spin..

What more can I say this plane makes you look at least twice the pilot than you are really. I just cant wait for the next flight out when hopefully the wind will have subsided and I can attempt some of the more demanding pattern stuff that this airframe can deliver.

On a footnote the DA has had about 3/4 gal through it (No.1920) didn't stop once hasn't had any of the much discussed mods no inverted carb or modified pulse pick up, however its throttle response is not great it has a very rough midrange just where you want it to be smooth transition it gets quite lumpy (from low needle to high needle?)... I am using a menz 24*8 and will consider going to a 23*8 carbon prop as my gut reaction is that it may be to much prop for it to spool up quickly.

Going to have to reserve a 682 and try the YW option as soon as I can (flatspin?)

The best compliment I can give this plane is that it could do for large scale what the original shock flyer's did for the indoor scene it flys that good it just makes you want to go and fly it some more and more and more............





Old 05-02-2005, 02:43 PM
  #4595  
flat spin
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Nice one mate glad to hear all went well. And it gets better too.
Old 05-02-2005, 04:28 PM
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: Torqued-Up

On another note, this almost rabid product allegiance is still rather baffling to me... I use what works for me and I am more than happy to share this intel with other individuals... But, when product allegiance flies in the face of good judgement, I just have to scratch my head and wonder what color the sky is in your world... God forbid someone say something negative about DA or EF in this thread...
Good post.

ORIGINAL: Dave763

BBriBro, the fact that you "don't get it" does not surprise me. As far as being inexperienced, don't worry you'll get there someday if you keep at it.
Dave, I never specifically mentioned your name, but I guess you felt guilty after reading my comments, which is why you chose to personally criticize me, oh well, I guess if the shoe fits........... what's with the juvenile comment? what posts of mine have led you to believe I am inexperienced? Why "does it not surprise you" do you know me? or my personality ?
Old 05-02-2005, 07:15 PM
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Gotta_Fly
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Here is my 4 cents about some of the dead sticking issues, When taking off it would be alot better for your plane if you looked at the windsock, And I know most of you know this, But now that I'm flying more and more and I'm visiting more fields I'm blown away with the take off techniques I witness on a regular bases and these are by pilots with stick time!!!!! I know having a Sunny day with no wind is the ideal day but since this is not the Walgreen's perfect world commercial, we have wind all the time THUS you would think the wind sock would come in to play more often...... Has anyone else noticed this or I'm I the only one else's who's scene Bigfoot ????



Randy
Old 05-02-2005, 07:29 PM
  #4598  
Josey Wales
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Well I sent Chris an Email requesting to be put on the "list" for a Yak..I just finished my 1st gasser a WH Edge/DA 50 so Im not in a big hurry..besides..I need time to replenish the credit union account Im hoping to get one in the fall...
Old 05-02-2005, 07:32 PM
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: Gotta_Fly

Here is my 4 cents about some of the dead sticking issues, When taking off it would be alot better for your plane if you looked at the windsock, And I know most of you know this, But now that I'm flying more and more and I'm visiting more fields I'm blown away with the take off techniques I witness on a regular bases and these are by pilots with stick time!!!!! I know having a Sunny day with no wind is the ideal day but since this is not the Walgreen's perfect world commercial, we have wind all the time THUS you would think the wind sock would come in to play more often...... Has anyone else noticed this or I'm I the only one else's who's scene Bigfoot ????



Randy
I have noticed that too, not only by experienced R/C pilots, but even by full scale pilots at our club, who certainly should know better. I hate to bring it up though, some smart a** will tell me something like "it's ok BBriBro, one day you too will learn to look at the windsock" sometimes I wonder if people even read these posts, and more importantly read WHO is saying what. Back to your point, usually a downwind takeoff isn't a big deal with our power to weight ratios, but I don't understand the downwind landings, I like to see my airplane crawling along with very little ground speed, just hanging in the air, not whizzing by at 50 mph, yet on the verge of a stall. I got chastised for my "seemingly inexperienced" builder comment, but now you notice it in the air too, where is our hobby going? Too many ARFs, people with more money than time, no more true "modeling"
Old 05-02-2005, 07:41 PM
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: BBriBro


ORIGINAL: Gotta_Fly

Here is my 4 cents about some of the dead sticking issues, When taking off it would be alot better for your plane if you looked at the windsock, And I know most of you know this, But now that I'm flying more and more and I'm visiting more fields I'm blown away with the take off techniques I witness on a regular bases and these are by pilots with stick time!!!!! I know having a Sunny day with no wind is the ideal day but since this is not the Walgreen's perfect world commercial, we have wind all the time THUS you would think the wind sock would come in to play more often...... Has anyone else noticed this or I'm I the only one else's who's scene Bigfoot ????



Randy
I have noticed that too, not only by experienced R/C pilots, but even by full scale pilots at our club, who certainly should know better. I hate to bring it up though, some smart a** will tell me something like "it's ok BBriBro, one day you too will learn to look at the windsock" sometimes I wonder if people even read these posts, and more importantly read WHO is saying what. Back to your point, usually a downwind takeoff isn't a big deal with our power to weight ratios, but I don't understand the downwind landings, I like to see my airplane crawling along with very little ground speed, just hanging in the air, not whizzing by at 50 mph, yet on the verge of a stall. I got chastised for my "seemingly inexperienced" builder comment, but now you notice it in the air too, where is our hobby going? Too many ARFs, people with more money than time, no more true "modeling"
And I thought I was alone in the world. It's good to see it is not just happening in my small part of the universe too.


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