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Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

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Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Old 05-03-2005, 04:17 PM
  #4626  
matus777
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: rdb127

Ok, you guys seem quite idle. Here is a challange for you.

First let me say that I spoke with Chris today. He said that the next shipment is to be due early June. In the same breath I got, don't count on it, a standard disclaimer. So I ordered one for me and one for my brother. I showed him lat weekend the video of the electric version and he could not believe it. Said it flew like a kite. He has a FPE 3.2 to use and I have the Dreaded Moki 2.1

Yes I know that the Moki will only turn a 20X6 at 8000 rpm or a 20X10 at 7000 rpm. I will not be pulling out of hovers at half throttle either. I do think that I will come in at 14.5 to 15 lbs weight and that the plane will most likely fly some form of IMAC on this engine. After some time, when I can afford it I will go to a 50cc gas engine. (after I have learned some IMAC too!

So here is my question. What is the distance from the firewall to the front of the cowl (when installed)? I will have a balance challenge and look forward to getting as much weight out front as possible. If I got the prop out say 1/2 to 1 inch forward of the cowl my w&b might be managable. This engine with radial mount and Bisson pitts muffler weighs in at 3 lb 10 oz and can do a 4 inch True Turn spinner for added weight out front. I am looking to bring the weight out as far forward as I can and will try to build out the firewall.
Your suggestions and comments are welcome. Wayne?

Richard I aint got enough money for a trailer and engine Bahmann


RDB127...it is 6" as stated earlier...i just measured it. This distance is if you mount the cowl just over the first "bulkhead" as per manual.....you will really enjoy this thing...good luck!
Old 05-03-2005, 04:30 PM
  #4627  
Richard D Bahmann aka/Wrongway
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

"RDB127...it is 6" as stated earlier...i just measured it. This distance is if you mount the cowl just over the first "bulkhead" as per manual.....you will really enjoy this thing...good luck!"

Thanks Matus 777 and Atlanta Flyer for the good info. See, the thread can work.

Richard
Old 05-03-2005, 04:31 PM
  #4628  
Richard D Bahmann aka/Wrongway
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

BTY in my conversation with Chris today he mentioned that he was over half sold out on the next shipment which is to be around (did he say 260 or 280 kits). Add in my two Yak's and the clock is ticking for any folks who want to comfortably be on the list for the next shipment.
Old 05-03-2005, 04:37 PM
  #4629  
Richard D Bahmann aka/Wrongway
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

So if the vote is to start a new thread can we call it Rocky II ? Or how about Yak Flack II. Point is, any way you look at it there will alway be someone swaying from the subject on any thread of length.

The worst thing would be for all of this good info, and now that the planes are here and flying daily, flying experience, to dry up. I was not a dummy before subscribing to the thread but feel as though I have learned lots and am learning daily. I just keep my filters on for the info that does not pertain to me, that is all.

Say Atlanta Flyer......my brother has been in the hobby for over 8 years and has about 2 dozen birds in the nest including a 1/3 scale Cub, 144 inch Ziroli DC-3 and 4 or 5 Scream Machines with the Jett 50 on them..... When he saw your first video on the electric Yak he was sold. I am curious what the winds were blowing that day? (build and fly... this question pertains to the FLY part)

Richard
Old 05-03-2005, 05:32 PM
  #4630  
torqmeister
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Keep the thread going. The vast majority of the Yak owners are just now finishing their planes & flying them. there is still a great deal to talk about, & learn from. Just my $.02.
Old 05-03-2005, 05:49 PM
  #4631  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Rdb27,
Honestly, you have a month and a half, at least before your plane gets here to build up funds to get a larger gas engine and sell the Moki. Not only will you have balance issues but you will probably not like the performance. If that engine can turn, say, a 22X8 at about 6500, it might hover, but a 20 inch prop doesn't have much blade sticking out past that fat cowl and it will diminish thrust quite a bit...
Old 05-03-2005, 08:43 PM
  #4632  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

ORIGINAL: bodyworks

If that engine can turn, say, a 22X8 at about 6500, it might hover,

What RPM is a DA-50 turning with a 22x8 MEzjlik inorder to hover??......6500 sounds like more than enough.... Just asking cus I have a 22x8 for my DA and it would be nice to know where , rpm wise, it is going to hover....

Old 05-03-2005, 08:44 PM
  #4633  
rmh
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

At our altitude-- a 22x8 which turns 6500, will barely hold a hover on an early 14 lb H9 CAP - (a ZDZ40 on a small incowl muffler) - in word - it is nowhere near enough static thrust for the YAK
The cowl is not the real problem -if the engine sticks out enough .
Just not enough power .
Also-- You are not likely to balance the YAK with a small engine unless you move all servos up front .
To get one under or at 15 lbs - you will have to do some equipment shifting -or add ballast .
Old 05-03-2005, 08:49 PM
  #4634  
Josey Wales
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Im at sea level (NJ) and my DA50 turns a 22-8 Menz 7200 rpms and a 22-8 MSC 6900 rps..easily hovers my WH Edge..its still breking in on 32:1..
Old 05-03-2005, 10:02 PM
  #4635  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

My DA-50 with tuned pipe is turning an MSC 22x8 around 6950 RPM's. About 1/2 gallon through her.

BTW: I learnt today that if your plane restraint is a heli starting shaft stuck into the ground and nylon straps, you better hold onto the plane. At WOT, the DA almost pulled the damn thing out of the ground
Old 05-03-2005, 11:22 PM
  #4636  
rmh
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

OK guys -but 6500 on a 22x8 is not a good setup for 15-17 lbs
remember you will likely be carrying 1-2 lbs of fuel and I will bet there are very few 50 powered YAKS under 15.75 lbs empty.
I made some decent weight saving on mine with different gear-no pants -small wheels-lite 3.75 spinner etc., and mine is 15.25 pounds.
Old 05-03-2005, 11:44 PM
  #4637  
bodywerks
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

I am at around 6500 feet ASL, have a half gallon through my DA, and am swinging an MSC 22X8 at 6700 with the stock DA muffler and, with a cheesy fish scale in line with the holding strap, I am getting just shy of 20 lbs of STATIC thrust. I would say that in actual flying, that's just barely enough to climb out of a hover.
At 6500 rpm, I would say you'd get about 18 or so pounds of thrust...pretty iffy[&o]
Old 05-04-2005, 06:28 AM
  #4638  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

You are right, my comment on 154 was a slight exaggeration, there is good info here on the plane, several posts per page is about the average. Other stuff is mind numbing drama or stuff that should be in another thread. The info on the plane is useful and helpful to me or whoever cares about this plane. If this one keeps going fine, I just hope that it goes on with discussion of the plane, not Imac, fuel tubing, weather, blah blah blah.
I do not think there is a person out there that would truly miss the excess bull that goes on either in this thread or any here at RCU, and would not find it more informative and enjoyable to open the thread and find just decent info on the plane that they want to explore.

By the way, I love the plane, and am truly impressed by its flying, to me, its the best ARF right now of any kind on the market, for the money.
Old 05-04-2005, 06:35 AM
  #4639  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

My Brison "only" turned 6600 with the Pitts muffler on a 22x8 Menz S, It's certainly better now on the canister, but it flew fine before, and would hover easily. If you have 20lbs of thrust on a 16 lb airplane I wouldn't say it will "barely" pull out of hover. You don't need a 5:1 power to weight ratio like a 6 oz foamy on 3 cells. I have flown and hovered airplanes that are just about 1:1, so bad that you have to wait for the fuel to burn down before it will pull out (well, not that bad) but to the point if it went lean or rich, it would have started decending. That was on a 7-8 lb fun fly with a Saito 72. I flew it for years like that, the light wing loading is what made it key, and I hovered it all the time, about 2-3 clicks from WOT.

I think my Yak flies great now, (on the canister) and I thought it flew damn good before, (only 6600 RPM) You guys must have rediculous power with the DA-50. (keep in mind it will still FLY with less power, and do all the same maneuvers)

Edit: I'm at 900' elevation, so I guess 6600 RPM here is moving a lot more air than 6600 RPM in Salt Lake City, ( I just re-read the post that 6500 RPM won't hover a 14 lb H9 Cap at the higher elevation) you wouldn't think it would be THAT drastic, since we are talking pretty close to the same RPM, but on a 2lb lighter airplane, that's a serious loss of efficiency !
Old 05-04-2005, 07:57 AM
  #4640  
wgeffon
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: dick Hanson

I will bet there are very few 50 powered YAKS under 15.75 lbs empty.
Pretty much everyone who is using the stock muffler is well under that.
I am at 15 pounds 6 oz.
Most people who have posted weights (or that I have talked to) are within an ounce of that either way with that set up.

Old 05-04-2005, 09:04 AM
  #4641  
Mike Parsons
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: rdb127
Say Atlanta Flyer......my brother has been in the hobby for over 8 years and has about 2 dozen birds in the nest including a 1/3 scale Cub, 144 inch Ziroli DC-3 and 4 or 5 Scream Machines with the Jett 50 on them..... When he saw your first video on the electric Yak he was sold. I am curious what the winds were blowing that day? (build and fly... this question pertains to the FLY part)

Richard
The forecast was calling for 22-25 mph winds and up to 32 mph gusts that day. I can comfortably say the forecasters got it right for once .

-Mike
Old 05-04-2005, 09:08 AM
  #4642  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Pretty much everyone who is using the stock muffler is well under that.
I am at 15 pounds 6 oz.
Most people who have posted weights (or that I have talked to) are within an ounce of that either way with that set up.
Ditto. I'm at 15 pounds 12 ounces with the Bisson Pitts muffler... If and when I change it to stock, that would put me back to 15 pounds 6 oz as well. The Pitts is about 5-6 oz heavier than a stock DA muffler.

Tom
Old 05-04-2005, 09:31 AM
  #4643  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Mine was 15lbs, 9-10oz. before I removed the hyde pipe ant went back to the stock muffler, which was 8 or so ounces heavier, so I am hovering around 15 pounds, even. Even at this altitude, this thing flies like a foamy!
Old 05-04-2005, 10:14 AM
  #4644  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Mine was 15lbs, 9-10oz. before I removed the hyde pipe ant went back to the stock muffler, which was 8 or so ounces heavier, so I am hovering around 15 pounds, even. Even at this altitude, this thing flies like a foamy!
Yours isn't the first I've heard of to come in at 15lbs even. I don't understand this since we are pretty much all using the same components (except mufflers). Actually, I've even got a lightweight fiberglass spinner and didn't use an ignition switch... so that should put me a good 3-4 oz lighter. With a stock DA muffler (lightest option available), I'd still be at 15.25 pounds, I don't know any way that I could lose another 4 oz?

Tom
Old 05-04-2005, 11:44 AM
  #4645  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Those weights are a bit of a surprise - The whels that came with mine were those big doughnuts that were quite heavy - I also ditched the pants and saved 4 oz with my aluminum gear -
But my 10 oz pipe and big header is not light
My model is a little nose heavy -
My 22x8 is a Mejzlic-which is a lot lighter load . Iam surprised more of you are not using that one on the non piped models -It should allow you to get closer to 7000 and that's best power on most of these fifties. (best torque)
The pipes really do up the torque tho ---------.
The stock DA carb flows well way up into the 7000 rpm range
I checked it at 7500 (the carb) and there was no gain on slightly larger carb -
I use the same size carb on my ZDZ with or without pipe .
Bigger props do not increase power in most cases and for 3D more revs is definately better .
This is NOT true however on electric stuff.
Old 05-04-2005, 12:17 PM
  #4646  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Wheels and wheel pants could definitely make the difference. I used stock wheels and pants... I don't think you can get under 15.25 pounds without using lighter wheels and/or chucking the pants. There's just no where else to save it if you're already using a stock muffler, and are not using any redundant systems.

Tom
Old 05-04-2005, 01:07 PM
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: NE0

Mine was 15lbs, 9-10oz. before I removed the hyde pipe ant went back to the stock muffler, which was 8 or so ounces heavier, so I am hovering around 15 pounds, even. Even at this altitude, this thing flies like a foamy!
Yours isn't the first I've heard of to come in at 15lbs even. I don't understand this since we are pretty much all using the same components (except mufflers). Actually, I've even got a lightweight fiberglass spinner and didn't use an ignition switch... so that should put me a good 3-4 oz lighter. With a stock DA muffler (lightest option available), I'd still be at 15.25 pounds, I don't know any way that I could lose another 4 oz?

Tom
no wheelpants
...they are not scale anyway and dead weight, IMO
Old 05-04-2005, 01:16 PM
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

no wheelpants
...they are not scale anyway and dead weight, IMO
AHA! So I suspected. Yeah, I suppose you're right about the scale thing and certainly the weight. I just like the way they look But, I may end up pulling them back off. I don't know how they'll hold up since they don't have the axle mount into the outboard side of the pants. Mine are already loose just from bumping them in the shop. That ply plate on the inboard side of the pants just is not getting a good glue joint. Already reglued it once and it's breaking loose again [:@]... and I haven't even flow it yet! [&:]

Tom
Old 05-04-2005, 01:34 PM
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: dick Hanson

My 22x8 is a Mejzlic-which is a lot lighter load . Iam surprised more of you are not using that one on the non piped models.
I have not found any props lighter than a Menz. The Mejzlik might be less air load on the engine, which might allow it to attain a higher RPM, but I've found the added weight (flywheel effect) affects the transition. So I guess it's a give and take, I prefer a quicker throttle response with a lighter prop. Also, if it's a lighter load, then it must be moving less air, (less thrust) unless you're suggesting they are that much more efficient? I always thought the good ole Menz was hard to beat, they seem to perform well, they are light, and they don't cost a fortune. I'd love to have a CF prop to go with my CF spinner, but most people around here who have tried them, end up going back to some sort of wood prop, be it a Menz, 3W, BME, or MSC.
Old 05-04-2005, 03:14 PM
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Lighter load meaning less air loading.
Props are strange critters .
You simply can not judge dynamic performance based on advertised size.
For 3D- the best bet is to first get a prop which will run up into best engine torque range.
Pipes do increase torque -so we have found that the Mejzlic shape lets the engine rev more and typically give better results on non piped stuff.
(The slower you move the plane the more power you need.)
This will usually give you the best chance at maximizing power available.
As you might guess tho -it may be a lousy prop for best performance at speed and and may also be noisy as hell.
The actual weight of the prop is not that important except for smooth flywheel effect at idle.
The new JAS props are very good also as is the new Bambula - both are sorta like bit thicker stiffer MenzS -with less tip wahout.
I have reshaped lots of bigger props to smaller diameters (make 23x8's from 24x8's)and found that making the props stiffer is helpful in that no power loosing tip wavering occurs.

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