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Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

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Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Old 05-07-2005, 07:16 PM
  #4726  
bodywerks
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: xtreem3d

chip,
what are you using on the katana? i have a bme 50 on mine at 16lbs and there is no way the motor has enough power unless there's something wrong w/ mine !!! what are your guys yaks weighing in at w/ the DA 50?
thanks,
steve
Mine weighs under 15.2 pounds. 15.5 pounds is very obtainable with this plane...my 15.2 took a little "work".
Old 05-07-2005, 07:23 PM
  #4727  
NE0
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Hi Neo,

My smart fiber optic kill switch also behaved very strangely the other day, until I took the plane out of strong sunlight then it behaved normally again. I traced this back to the transmitter board where the fiber optic cable fits into the screw terminal this was letting in light which the receiver board interpreted as a signal. Easy to cure just cover the screw terminal with heat shrink or tape and hey presto no problem.
Thanks all for your feedback. Oddly enough, I found that inside the shop where it's kind of dark without a bunch of lights on... no problem with the kill switch. I think you're right about the outside light. One the RX end of the FO Kill is under that bigh greenhouse canopy with tons of sunlight pouring in. I'll put a stop to that

Thanks for the tip!

Tom
Old 05-07-2005, 07:26 PM
  #4728  
wgeffon
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: bodyworks


Hmmm...wonder what his opinion of the 15lb H9 260 is now??? After flying the Yak, he must be a little disappointed

Not at all.
I watched him fly the little 260 today and you cant tell its 15 pounds and has less wing area.
It didnt look like it flew heavy at all and his is heavier than most would be. DA-50 and a Pipe.
I was surprised.

You have to keep in mind that when he designs a plane it has to have a wide range of motors that would suit it.
They are targeting a large market share with any design they produce.

He told me that if he was designing it for the DA ONLY it would have had dimensions very similar to the EF Yak.

Old 05-07-2005, 08:05 PM
  #4729  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

strange comment--Tho it is a excellent engine -power is about same as other similiar sized engines. .
Old 05-07-2005, 08:27 PM
  #4730  
chipwill
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Well,

Flew my first sort of IMAC sequences today at our club Imac fun fly. Was kind of windy this morning, and I decided to stay in Basic since I only had 4 flights on the plane.

Some observations- The BME has given me a whole new outlook on engines. My ZDZ is very reliable, just takes a while to get started. Something like 20 flips total cold. 10 choked and then another 5-10 to fire. It is still breaking in, but it takes time. Power is great. The BME on the other hand Barked after 4 flips and started on the 4th flip from cold today. I was impressed. I hope I am not jinxing it, but so far, so good.

The Yak does get bumped around in turbulence more than the Kat. Lower wing loading, I expected that. The big vertical fin and rudder require more correction to counter the wind it seems. The weathervane effect is noticibly stronger, but the rudder is very effective. I have a 8611 on the rudder which is also faster and I can tell from the Hitek I have on the Katana. I might need a bit more expo for a while til I get smoother on the sticks.

My balance issues and having to add weight were confirmed. I added 5oz to the nose to bring the balance alittle aft of the yellow stripe. Inverted needs only the slightest touch of down elevator to stay there. Inverted 45 degree uplines it wanted to climb some. I think that might be a thrust line issue and the next calm day ill do all the thrust line tests. We thought that there might be too much right thrust on vertical uplines, but with the crosswind we had, im not so sure yet. More opportunities about to fly and get already awesome airplane, better.


Not to drone on and on how great the plane is, but the Katana is probably going to be sold as soon as I get my H9 Extra done. That will be my main IMAC bird, and the Yak will be my freestyle/3d and Imac backup. I have a sneaking suspicion that the Yak will be the most flown, esp. if the wind isnt blowing. It is that good.

Anyhow, I will be emailing Chris promptly and making sure I am on the list for the 107 incher. Will have to get a BME 110 or something absurd for it. hehe

--- Wayne, should have seen Kurt flying today. Wind was like 12-18 at about 45 degree crosswind. Kurt is going thru the unlimited sequence, with absolute perfect wind corrections. It was unbelievable. He flew later when it was even more windy, and did that field crossing slow rolls... Sends chills up my spine. All of that wind, and he was at about 20 feet up. Awesome.

Maybe Ill be doing that in 5 years....lol

Chip
Old 05-07-2005, 08:41 PM
  #4731  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: wgeffon


ORIGINAL: bodyworks


Hmmm...wonder what his opinion of the 15lb H9 260 is now??? After flying the Yak, he must be a little disappointed

Not at all.
I watched him fly the little 260 today and you cant tell its 15 pounds and has less wing area.
It didnt look like it flew heavy at all and his is heavier than most would be. DA-50 and a Pipe.
I was surprised.

You have to keep in mind that when he designs a plane it has to have a wide range of motors that would suit it.
They are targeting a large market share with any design they produce.

He told me that if he was designing it for the DA ONLY it would have had dimensions very similar to the EF Yak.

Did you get any video of it???
Old 05-07-2005, 08:58 PM
  #4732  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

No. I didnt.
My batteries in my camera had run out. I think you'd be surprised though.

Chip,

Kurt Shmurt.... Blah blah blah...[:'(]

LOL
Yeah I know. Last weekends contest was really windy at 90 degrees to the flightline.
He made it look easy. That probably has a lot to do with why he was second and I was 5th..
Old 05-07-2005, 09:15 PM
  #4733  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Chip will- try this:
works on any gasser when cold -first start of the day.
Open throttle close choke flipover until it starts to feel wet - typically 5-20 flips -depending on needle settings and simply sometimes just difference in engines.
Now - open choke - flip a few more times
Now - close throttle to med idle - engage spark - flip -should start first flip.
My 50 starts instantly anytime
I use 32-1 Mobil 1 oil (MX2t)-and 91 oct fuel -(on all engines)
Old 05-07-2005, 09:19 PM
  #4734  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Mike McConnville flying the EF Yak.

Play
Old 05-07-2005, 09:49 PM
  #4735  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

sure wish i could watch the video but i got to see him fly it in person and it was asome same with the 260
Old 05-07-2005, 11:07 PM
  #4736  
racekannon
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: bodyworks

Maudib, I am sure you got my PM...you're gonna want to do something about the header for your hyde pipe or you'll be dissapointed. I went back to the stock muffler and will keep it on until break-in is complete.
I got this e-mail after I sent this:
---- [email protected] wrote:
> I followed his lead with my hyde pipe and am worring. Please elaborate. thanks [email protected]

The Hyde pipe is actually a tuned silencer and is affected by header length. The shortened header causes the return exhaust pulse to hit the exhaust port at the wrong time, essentially creating an excessive backpressure and robbing horsepower. The resulting effect causes a 500 RPM loss over stock, instead of the desired 100-200 rpm increase. We will probably have to use the flexible question mark header and actually mount the big part of the cannister over the landing gear block. I am not even going to bother right now, as I am happy with the weight loss from going back to stock, and I want to get the engine broken in first.

I would have loved to have known this earlier I cann't find it in the thread. I just wasted alot of time. I am sick and haven't wanted to touch the plane since finding out. My options are tear up plane while removing pipe while having to ruin pipe to remove. I mounted my engine and made and installed everything just this week.
Old 05-08-2005, 02:28 AM
  #4737  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

It took me 5 minutes to remove my Hyde pipe and install the stock muffler. If I had another full length header or even another teflon coupler and the piece I cut off from the origional header, it would have taken me a half hour. Don't get discouraged...You probably don't even have to get a new header. If you still have the piece you cut off, all you need is another teflon coupler. Then, just cut out the covering again, cut a hole in that balsa blocker door, if you installed it, to allow the small part of the pipe slip through, and mount it as I described.
Old 05-08-2005, 02:30 AM
  #4738  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: wgeffon

Mike McConnville flying the EF Yak.

Play
He sure looked bored flying that, LOL! And you're telling me he could do all of that with the 260, including the knife edge square loops???
Old 05-08-2005, 05:17 AM
  #4739  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

hey all what happened to the http://extremeflightyak.shutupandfly.com/ site??? Can't get on and look at the build videos and stuff.. Keeps giveme fordibben access??/

Thanks

Marcus

Still waiting for my Yak but got the DA finally
Old 05-08-2005, 06:24 AM
  #4740  
chipwill
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Nice vid Wayne.

I bet he had that big cheshire grin on the whole time.

Dick Hanson- Thanks....If I try if and when I fly the Katana again. I think its going to be a while now....


Hopefully will get out to the field today after work and get some trimming done and start getting this thing flying straight. I might have a thrust line issue ( Beam mount engine ), but it was too windy to tell for sure if uplines were pulling left or right.

=Question==

when you do a throttle mix, it is probably worth it to do all the points on the curve available or are three enough? I fly a 9303. Right now the BME is full power at about half stick and I want to smooth it out some. I might just wait a few more flights before I get the needle tweaked. Any thoughts?


Chip
Old 05-08-2005, 06:31 AM
  #4741  
Maudib
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


Sorry I missed responding to this earlier... I did cut my header and found I still got about 100-200 more RPM over the stock pipe. This was cooler weather of course and a new engine.

In a much earlier post I posted all the tach/dB measurements I got when using several mufflers (5 or 6) including stock cut and uncut. The Hyde pipe with the cut off header gave me 100-200 more RPM... though not the 7000 my buddy NEO is gettting in current weather.

I will check again my rpm's and noise levels with the pipe once I get the opportunity.


ORIGINAL: racekannon


I got this e-mail after I sent this:
---- [email protected] wrote:
> I followed his lead with my hyde pipe and am worring. Please elaborate. thanks [email protected]

The Hyde pipe is actually a tuned silencer and is affected by header length. The shortened header causes the return exhaust pulse to hit the exhaust port at the wrong time, essentially creating an excessive backpressure and robbing horsepower. The resulting effect causes a 500 RPM loss over stock, instead of the desired 100-200 rpm increase. We will probably have to use the flexible question mark header and actually mount the big part of the cannister over the landing gear block. I am not even going to bother right now, as I am happy with the weight loss from going back to stock, and I want to get the engine broken in first.

I would have loved to have known this earlier I cann't find it in the thread. I just wasted alot of time. I am sick and haven't wanted to touch the plane since finding out. My options are tear up plane while removing pipe while having to ruin pipe to remove. I mounted my engine and made and installed everything just this week.
Old 05-08-2005, 08:02 AM
  #4742  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Tuned silencers are great - providing you use a length matched to prop-this allows the pulse to hit at the correct time
You can make a tuned silencer from anything -I once used small steel paint cans and ran my ZDZ60's at 6400 on 24x10 MenzS props . This was a good torque increase over open stack (no exhaust system at all)
This is also a huge boost over a muffler such as the Pitts types commonly used..
Any non tuned header/can muffler will give axprox same rpm as NO exhaust system + - a bit.
99% of all in cowl mufflers rob up to 500 rpm easily-IF they silence reasonably.
True for any two stroke -the brand does not matter.
If you want to get best results with them try this:
Run engine w/o any exhaust system for short bursts and tach em -
get peaked rpm
Don't overheat it!
Now add the complete exhaust setup -reset needle valve for peak again.
look at rpm difference
If the system is supposed to be tuned -and it looses rpm--The prop is too big or the pipe is too short. That is typical.
Most 50's extract max power close to 7000 rpm so prop for open exhaust at about that rpm then setup header /pipe length such that the engine comes up smoothly from idle to peak with no jumping or hesitation-when throttled up smoothly.
A full tuned pipe is done in much the same way.
When ZDZ first inroduced their 50 -it was setup for the silenced pipes common in Europe.
The US users promptly added quiet in cowl muffles and killed the potential for any power.
A tuned setup made these engine run very well.
The next generation of 50's used high directional ports and reduced exhaust timing - which is more tolerant of screwed up exhaust systems.
The point here is to match the exhaust setup to the engine .
Again, the brand does not matter.
Old 05-08-2005, 08:06 AM
  #4743  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

chipwill--I have same radio
Just setup a couple of curves and switch betwen them -then readjust till you get there - I would make a fairly flat ramp up to about 1/2 stick then come up quickly.
It takes some screwing around as each setup is different.
use all the points -it isn't that hard to do
Old 05-08-2005, 08:11 AM
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

I am so confused. What I cann't understand is why this info wasn't shared. I would have changed the set-up to be safe. I will have to buy a new header and I made and epoxied parts to mount the pipe that must be torn out. Belive me it is more than just an easy fix. Who's right?? This is my first gasser and I was so excited i was done building and waiting on parts. Anybody want to buy one? This one has the cracked canopy, got a slight twist and had the DA carb update.
Old 05-08-2005, 08:42 AM
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: wolfcbr2003

hey all what happened to the http://extremeflightyak.shutupandfly.com/ site??? Can't get on and look at the build videos and stuff.. Keeps giveme fordibben access??/

Site is down right now.
It will be back in a few days.

Old 05-08-2005, 08:44 AM
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: bodyworks


And you're telling me he could do all of that with the 260, including the knife edge square loops???

Yes.
Old 05-08-2005, 08:52 AM
  #4747  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

you selling the airplane Race? or the engine? or both?

If this is your first gasser take it as a learning experinece and move on. The plane is worth the hassle you may be experiencing. I built another plane as a first gasser to learn specific things before I invested in putting the yak in the air. My aeroworks Katana was/is a great learning airplane for things more inherent to larger gas planes and I feel much more confident as a result.

Perhaps shelve the yak for a while and get a cheap airframe to learn lessons on? Also there is considerble information on just about everything here at RCU. I think that manufacturers expect a certain level of experience on some products and this one is no different.

Good luck to you.

Chip

PS- Thanks Dick Hanson- I set one the other day with all the points, I was wondering if made much difference by using only 3. Guess I shouldn't be lazy huh hehe. Great info from you as always.
Old 05-08-2005, 09:17 AM
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Since this has come up again, Here are the links to Maudib's original exhaust testing. [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_2408226/mpage_55/key_/tm.htm]Exhaust weights[/link] and [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_2408226/mpage_74/key_/tm.htm]Exhaust RPMs[/link]
Old 05-08-2005, 09:28 AM
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Tuned pipes are "goosey "-only if they are mismatched to the engine /prop.
Otherwise they add a new dimension of throttle response and increased torque - increasing it and moving max torque to a higher rpm.
Old 05-08-2005, 12:16 PM
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Dick, GOOFY IS RIGHT!!! I tried a 23X8, 22X10, and 22X8 and got 6200 rpm out of all of them.

And Racekannon.
"I am so confused. What I cann't understand is why this info wasn't shared"...
The information was shared, and it is not anyone else's responsibility to makes sure you make the right decision but your own. You made the decision to take someone's statement on here as gosspel instead of an experience shared by one hobbyist to others. The forums are for sharing experiences and providing ideas and some sometimes useful information. You chose to use the pipe, as I did, with a cut header and it turned out that our experience wasn't the same as another person's. You learned and it costed you...GET USED TO IT! Yes, these forums can help people get information to make better decisions to save wasting money on experiments, but it doesn't always ring true.

I hope your attitude changes and you decide to finish your Yak. You may even want to consider using the stock muffler and selling the cannister, as you admit you don't have much experience with gassers - the stock way is very straight forward. If your attitude doesn't change then maybe you should sell it, because if you got this upset about this, I don't want to know what you would do if you crashed or otherwise wrecked the entire plane!

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