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Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

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Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Old 06-12-2005, 09:22 PM
  #5301  
NE0
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Tom,
The post that Kat made was copied from my RCgroups thread that was specific to this conversion. That is why the spec's were in there...as the question was asked many times from RCG members. I would be happy to amend it to your weight . It is just a generalization as to the difference in the two power systems and what the average weight of each was. Hope that clears it up .
-Mike
Mike,

No problem... don't give it a second thought. I just wondered where it came from.

I'd say you are right, that an "average" would be 15,8 when you factor in the guys that are going with a header and pipe. But, that's almost a pound heavier custom setup to gain a good 4 pounds more thrust. If you averaged the more "stock" setups, you'd probably find them at 15,4. I'm seeing them range from 15 to 15-1/2 with relatively stock setups. If you're heavier or lighter than that, you've done something substantially different to it I think. I'll have to admit, 14lb 12oz is a pretty impressive weight though! [8D] Very nice!

Tom
Old 06-12-2005, 10:43 PM
  #5302  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

I'm about to pull my YS and put a gasser in the smaller Yak. What precautions do I need to take to protect the foam from gas damage? I figure you big brothers will know this stuff.
Old 06-13-2005, 12:36 AM
  #5303  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

After six long months of having my Yak gather dust in the box I am finally starting assembly... Since this thread has become so large I was hoping for pointers to the followng topics (I cannot figure out how to find a post within a thread by searching...):
[ul][*] Canopy latch. I have the little red latch and was hoping to see some pics of an installation...[*] Firewall issues... I recall there have been some issues with the firewall. Is it just the bottom section?[*] My DA-50 has been sitting in the box for nearly two years. Do I need to send it back to DA for mods?
[/ul]

TIA for your help!
Old 06-13-2005, 07:09 AM
  #5304  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

GalenB,

1) See here: for the [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=2616983]hatch latch mod[/link]

Notice everyone that there is now a "search this thread" feature at the bottom right corner of each page now!!! I just did a search for "latch" and got about 50 listings...

2) Use the search engine like above to find the firewall mod...


3) YES, send the engine back for carb & rod updates... Before you do, go ahead and mount the engine once to get the holes in place and keep the standoffs bolted to the firewall. (DA doesn't need them to do the updtaes and you can then work around the standoffs as if the engine was there. I'd suggest adding the aircraft ply strip BEFORE adding tristock...




ORIGINAL: GalenB

After six long months of having my Yak gather dust in the box I am finally starting assembly... Since this thread has become so large I was hoping for pointers to the followng topics (I cannot figure out how to find a post within a thread by searching...):
[ul][*] Canopy latch. I have the little red latch and was hoping to see some pics of an installation...[*] Firewall issues... I recall there have been some issues with the firewall. Is it just the bottom section?[*] My DA-50 has been sitting in the box for nearly two years. Do I need to send it back to DA for mods?
[/ul]

TIA for your help!
Old 06-13-2005, 07:15 AM
  #5305  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


Thanks Mike for the clarification... the plane looks very well powered either way, and those Cyclon 160's are impressive to say the least.

So the extra weight was cancelled out by the decreased voltage drop? That'll do.... PLUS you have a good bit more "leeway" in the load you put on the packs... I suspect you were running pretty close to max amp draw on the 2S in the upper throttle position? The video states 20 minutes fligthstime... still the case? (Sweet if it is)

Great work on testing a new motor setup and awesome success with this plane. Truly the best I've seen in the 50cc class.

Keep us informed and let's see some more videos of lighter wind flights...



ORIGINAL: Mike Parsons

Maudib,
Yep, my screen name changed when I became a moderator. Sorry for the confusion. The only change I have made is adding stack of Parallel, so now I am running 8S3P's instead of the 2P's. I picked up 19 oz with the extra P, but I dropped 9 oz of lead out of the nose, so it brought me right about 15 1/2.
It has lowered the resisitance and allows a little more juice to the prop. My amps went up to 70 at full and watts are now at 4200 watts. I would eventually like to go to a 9S, but will have to upgrade to the Jeti 90's in place of the 77's. The new 3P's can handle 100 amp bursts, but not the speed controllers. I am satisfied with performance it gives me now and will still be experimenting a bit.


Cheers,
Mike
Old 06-13-2005, 07:51 AM
  #5306  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


I want to clarify something...

My CHP can was installed on the plane WITH the header cutoff. I do believe I am losing RPMs now over a stock pipe.... though my initial tests didn't show that... I did indeed get 80 rpms or so on the pipe vs. stock muffler (not 200) back in the colder weather (Feb. 22).

The NX 23x8 was a disappointment giving only 6200 on the stock pipe vs. 6700, so I did not test it again UNTIL my maiden flight...

I switched to a 22x8 MSC for the "constant" on all the reported tests.

I have not returned to the stock muffler to test it again in the heat, but the CHP pipe with the cutoff header is getting about 6600 now in 80+ degree weather.

This engine needs the upgrades for sure...

So I'd have to agree with Chip and others that this is a TUNED pipe and needs to be setup as so... I dunno about the "full header" or not because as Dick states... tuned pipes are relative to the engine and prop, etc... It might need a tad less, or maybe a tad more...

I may put the stock muffler back on and cut out the cowl for it and fly it that way. It would be more difficult to install the CHP ass the LG bloack is wider than the amount of pipe I removed... In other words to move the pipe back it would have to sit completely behind the gearblock and that puts it at leat an inch or so (maybe 2) beyond the full length header. It might lose as mouch being 2: too long as it does 2" too short.

On a realted note... I flew the plane with bothe the NX 23x8 and 22x8 MSC... On the SAME CHP setup I got 400 rpm MORE on the MSC... BUT liked the way the NX at 6200 rom flew the plane... I just prefered it obver the feel of the 22x8. So... hopefully puttig the stock pipe on it will get me the RPM's I want (Maybe 6600-6700) and give me the power I'm looking for... the vertical is there, but I don't feel the "insane power" I am looking for. Perhaps it will require all the update before I realize the full power. I have a new DA-50 coming and will swap them out and send this one in when I can.

I MIGHT install the RCS infuse silencer since it is NOT a tuned system and see how I fare. They sure are quiet too...

but I have several other projects needing attention.






ORIGINAL: bodyworks

Dick, I find it VERY hard to believe that one Chip Hyde cannister would be different than another Chip Hyde cannister. With that said, Maudib's report of a 200 RPM increase over the stock DA and my reported 500RPM decrease would have to be something different...the only real difference was the length of the header on his test bed verses the 2 1/2 inch shorter header on my Yak-mounted engine.
If I remember correctly, Maudib reported RPM losses once he actually mounted and ran the engine on the plane, so header length, IMO, is the obvious problem here. I know the guy that is having RPM issues DOES NOT have a Hyde silencer, but a silencer, nonetheless. So I threw this info out there as food for thought.
Also, it wasn't Chris that I talked to, to clarify, it was Chip Hyde.
Old 06-13-2005, 08:24 AM
  #5307  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

I just listed my nib kit if anyone is interested. I'm moving up to the 35% planes and unfortunately need to sell this one for servo money. ARGHHHHHHHH.....

http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/item.cfm?itemId=105926

Craig
Old 06-13-2005, 08:54 AM
  #5308  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Just an update of the weekend festivities at the EXF. Our beloved designer and owner of extreme flight faired OK. He finished 10th in the field of some very fine pilots. His 107" Prototype flew very well. He did well on Friday he was in the top ten, seventh I think, and Saturday his first flight was good. The big mishap happened in the second round of Unknowns (freestyle) when Chris' DA 100 went dead-stick during the "ANEURYSM" maneuver. The thinking is that his smoke pump was still flowing max into the cans and during the maneuver when he chops the throttle the smoke fluid and the "G" forces drowned out the motor. For a brief second it look like the plane was going to stall into the ground but fortunately he had enough altitude to get speed up and make a perfect Yak-Like floater landing. If you have ever been around Chris you will know that he is an extremely composed man and he took it very well.


The event was really fun for me I got to see some old faces and make some new friends. The winner was Andrew Jesky, he flew a modified 100" QQ Yak. Andrew is 17yrs old and simply amazing. I am sure that you can find several threads with pics and videos.
Old 06-13-2005, 08:55 AM
  #5309  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

oops "XFC" not "EFX" sorry
Old 06-13-2005, 12:28 PM
  #5310  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: NE0

Tom,
The post that Kat made was copied from my RCgroups thread that was specific to this conversion. That is why the spec's were in there...as the question was asked many times from RCG members. I would be happy to amend it to your weight . It is just a generalization as to the difference in the two power systems and what the average weight of each was. Hope that clears it up .
-Mike
Mike,

No problem... don't give it a second thought. I just wondered where it came from.

I'd say you are right, that an "average" would be 15,8 when you factor in the guys that are going with a header and pipe. But, that's almost a pound heavier custom setup to gain a good 4 pounds more thrust. If you averaged the more "stock" setups, you'd probably find them at 15,4. I'm seeing them range from 15 to 15-1/2 with relatively stock setups. If you're heavier or lighter than that, you've done something substantially different to it I think. I'll have to admit, 14lb 12oz is a pretty impressive weight though! [8D] Very nice!

Tom
Neo...Okay, apples to apples. Lets say the average plane weighs 15lbs, 6 ounces with pants and all, and all supplied hardware was used.
So, apples to apples would be flying weight, so add 20 ounces to the gasser...
16lbs, 10 oz. VS 14lbs, 12oz...
Old 06-13-2005, 02:02 PM
  #5311  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Neo...Okay, apples to apples. Lets say the average plane weighs 15lbs, 6 ounces with pants and all, and all supplied hardware was used.
So, apples to apples would be flying weight, so add 20 ounces to the gasser...
16lbs, 10 oz. VS 14lbs, 12oz...
You lost me... what is the added 20 ounces? What are you saying?

Tom
Old 06-13-2005, 02:37 PM
  #5312  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Oh well at least he got the chance to fly and compete with the biggun. Nice one Chris hope to hear more about it soon. Remember smoking and Aneurysms don't go together or do they[&:]
Old 06-13-2005, 02:46 PM
  #5313  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: NE0

Neo...Okay, apples to apples. Lets say the average plane weighs 15lbs, 6 ounces with pants and all, and all supplied hardware was used.
So, apples to apples would be flying weight, so add 20 ounces to the gasser...
16lbs, 10 oz. VS 14lbs, 12oz...
You lost me... what is the added 20 ounces? What are you saying?

Tom
20 ounces of fuel...
Old 06-13-2005, 03:10 PM
  #5314  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Nah, sorry it's not that heavy. You don't need more than a 16oz tank, and I never fill it all the way. So worst case scenario is 15oz. Gasoline weighs about 7 pounds per gallon, which is .0547 pounds per fluid ounce. Multiply times 15 fluid oz and you get .82 pounds of fuel at take off (about 12 oz, not 20).

Fly 15 minutes and you use about 12 fluid ounces... so you're down to about 4 fluid ounces of fuel left at landing. Average flying weight should then be the average between takeoff and landing, or 5oz. So add 5oz to 15lbs, 6oz and you get 15lbs, 11oz. (about a pound lighter than your figure).

Tom
Old 06-13-2005, 03:20 PM
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

All in all, it would definitely be fair to say that a gasser is going to weigh an average of 15-3/4 pounds wet (or more), which is certainly heavier than any of the electric versions to date. But I think you reach the point of diminishing returns with weight. They get so light that they don't fly like a giant-scale plane anymore... too jittery in turbulence and the wind pushes them around too much. It's really cool though to know that you can in fact build an electric version with impressive power at equal to or less than weight of a gasser version... just not my cup of tea for giant scale though.
Old 06-13-2005, 03:26 PM
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Oops, sorry, math error.

Average fuel weight would be about 7oz, not 5. Average AUW wet would then be 15lb, 13oz.

Tom
Old 06-13-2005, 06:11 PM
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: NE0

Neo...Okay, apples to apples. Lets say the average plane weighs 15lbs, 6 ounces with pants and all, and all supplied hardware was used.
So, apples to apples would be flying weight, so add 20 ounces to the gasser...
16lbs, 10 oz. VS 14lbs, 12oz...
You lost me... what is the added 20 ounces? What are you saying?

Tom
The gasser requires gas to run. You need to put that gas in the tank, which is mounted in the plane. Gas weighs 7.5lbs/gallon, which is one ounce by weight for one ounce by volume, so 20 ounces of fuel weighs roughly 20 ounces, which adds 20 ounces to the take-off weight of your plane
Old 06-13-2005, 06:38 PM
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Gas weighs 7.5lbs/gallon, which is one ounce by weight for one ounce by volume, so 20 ounces of fuel weighs roughly 20 ounces, which adds 20 ounces to the take-off weight of your plane
You're right, my math is pretty rusty. But, gas weighs closer to 7 pounds per gallon. I don't think anyone is putting 20 ounce of gas in an EF Yak... you certainly don't need it. You can fly 10 minutes on 8 ounces with a DA50 in a Yak. That means I only need about 10oz, 12 at the most for a safe 10 minute flight. 12 ounces of gas weighs would weigh about 10oz by weight, so you don't need to put 20oz of weight in there.

Tom
Old 06-13-2005, 06:48 PM
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Okay, just weighed 20 ounces of fuel. Came out to 17.3 ounces, not including the weight of the tank itself. I am using 20 ounce tank because I an assuming most people used the tank that came with the hardware kit.
Old 06-13-2005, 08:24 PM
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Okay, just weighed 20 ounces of fuel. Came out to 17.3 ounces, not including the weight of the tank itself. I am using 20 ounce tank because I an assuming most people used the tank that came with the hardware kit.
Cool, thanks for the info. Yeah, I guess some guys would use the stock 20oz tank. I use B&B 16oz tanks on all my DA50 planes, you just don't need all that extra fuel and I just like the tanks better.

I've been getting a good 10 minutes on less than half a tank, and I never really fill it all the way to the top. I would guess I'm putting about 12oz in there. Based on your test, I guess that would be about 10 ounces of weight when full, and about 5 ounces at the end of the flight. No doubt it's a full pound heavier than Mike's e-version, averaging about 15lb, 12oz in the air.

Not sure if Mike is getting the same thrust out of his that I am though, so power to weight ratio may not be any different? Hard to say without flying them both. It doesn't really matter, they both freakin' rock the house! [8D]

Tom
Old 06-14-2005, 08:03 AM
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Yeah, I put a 16 ounce as well. I typically only fly 8-10 minutes at a time with a new plane. When I land I still have over a half tank. I am contemplating what tank I will put in the 100cc Yak when I get it. I may want to put smoke in it and I don't want too much liquid weight. I was thinking a 24oz with a 2-4oz hopper tank for the engine and a tiny smoke tank, like 20-24 ounces.
Old 06-14-2005, 08:26 AM
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

I hope you all don't take this the wrong way, but if you spent as much time at the field flying than you do sitting in front of your scale you might get invited to next years XFC. I mean really this is getting old. Yes, the plane is light. Yes it is built well, but it was built to FLY.... For crying out loud, it is a kite even at 17 lbs. and no one is even close to that. JUST SHUT UP AND FLY THE PLANE......

Just another note for those of you who actually take your plane to the field and fly. I spent some time with Chris this weekend at XFC and he wants everyone to know that if your plane is in direct sunlight to put a cover over the canopy. The plastic that was used is thin and it will warp. The next grade up of thicker plastic was considerably more $$$ and much more weight. (Scale Freaks: don't ask what the weight difference would be, because I don't know or care) I know that Carden will be making one of their sunshades fot this plane but it will be a few weeks before she get to them.

Have a great day and enjoy FLYING this great plane.
Old 06-14-2005, 08:27 AM
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Just a note of caution - Using power available on 100 cc will go thru 32 ounce tank like crap thru a goose .
Old 06-14-2005, 08:30 AM
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

You are supposed to fly em?
Fancy that ---
Old 06-14-2005, 08:34 AM
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: Ricmussman

I know that Carden will be making one of their sunshades fot this plane but it will be a few weeks before she get to them.

I hope its not that long.
I was thinking mine would be here in the next few days.

I sent Caroline the dimensions and we will see how the cover fits on mine and then she can go from there with making several more.
I dont know how much she is going to charge but, the cover for my 40% plane was around $120.00
WELL WORTH IT.
This size has to be a little cheaper.



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