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Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

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Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Old 07-26-2005, 05:55 PM
  #5726  
bodywerks
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

ORIGINAL: jrjohn

As long as were on the subject about who took what from who. Lets start in the beginning. The Yak 54 was designed and built by "Yakovlev Aviation" in Russia.

This plane was not designed by Quique Somenzini, BME, Chris, KMP or any of the other companies that have "taken" Yakovlev Aviations's design scaled it down, had it mass produced and put their lable on it.

I doubt any of the profits from these kits are going to the Russian designer, and I'm sure nobody in our country cares either. How can we in good concience complain about somebody taking a design from us that we copied from somebody else. It's insanity.

I'm sorry that somebody was hurt in the process, especially Chris who is a great guy, and I'm sorry the Yakovlev Aviation according to their own statment is not doing well.
Really, the only thing that is being used is the name. To dimensionally compare Chris' Yak to the full scale would reveal that the gear aren't even similar, the fuse on the model is over 10% longer, the stab is lower, etc. Besides, Chris' and other's offerings of his model airplane doesn't hurt Yakovlev's pocket in the least bit - it probably even helped it! Chris, on the other hand, probably lost over $100,000 with TOC's trick.
However, compare TOC and EF and they are nearly identical in dimension...it is not a coinsidence.
Old 07-26-2005, 06:32 PM
  #5727  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Really, the only thing that is being used is the name. To dimensionally compare Chris' Yak to the full scale would reveal that the gear aren't even similar, the fuse on the model is over 10% longer, the stab is lower, etc. Besides, Chris' and other's offerings of his model airplane doesn't hurt Yakovlev's pocket in the least bit - it probably even helped it! Chris, on the other hand, probably lost over $100,000 with TOC's trick.
However, compare TOC and EF and they are nearly identical in dimension...it is not a coinsidence.
I recently heard that an American manufacturer of P-38 models was approached by Lockheed and told that they had to pay royalties to Lockheed. And these were profile P-38's, so they were even less of an exact dulpicate than the EF Yak. Yakovlev Aviation should be capable of similar recourse, except that Yakovlev Aviation and Lockheed are both screwed if the model is produced in China.....
Old 07-26-2005, 07:57 PM
  #5728  
going vert
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

I feel like I'm watching "Meet the Press" on Sunday morning. I really don't know why this keeps coming up. In the 228 pages we've gone through this issue countless times. It's really getting old.

- Chris designs yak
- Chris orders yak
- Factory produces garbage
- Chris rejects and factory screws chris
- Factory sells planes to another vendor
- Factory uses same design to make larger plane
- RCU threads spend countless hours talking about the same BS issue
- Priceless...

Why don't we move on.
Old 07-26-2005, 08:00 PM
  #5729  
going vert
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

It's like the JR, Futaba, Hitec debate - no one will ever win - so drop it!!!
Old 07-26-2005, 08:33 PM
  #5730  
cbk07
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Too True Drew, (hey, that rhymes!!). The real shame is that it did not work out between Chris and that manufacturer as they seem to be able to build a damn nice plane (I just bought a 40%) despite what they did to Chris and obviously have no problem producing them fast enough to keep them in stock. Hopefully Chris can get some planes back in stock and all you you guys can go back to discussing the great plane he designed instead of the company that ripped him off and the morals (or lack thereof) in the overseas ARF business. Good luck to Chris in the future. Craig

P.S. Wayne, congratulations on your beautiful addition!!!!!!! Looks like she is already a natural part of your family. Have a safe trip home. Craig
Old 07-26-2005, 08:54 PM
  #5731  
wgeffon
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Thanks Craig.
Old 07-26-2005, 11:08 PM
  #5732  
jrjohn
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: going vert

I feel like I'm watching "Meet the Press" on Sunday morning. I really don't know why this keeps coming up. In the 228 pages we've gone through this issue countless times. It's really getting old.

- Chris designs yak
- Chris orders yak
- Factory produces garbage
- Chris rejects and factory screws chris
- Factory sells planes to another vendor
- Factory uses same design to make larger plane
- RCU threads spend countless hours talking about the same BS issue
- Priceless...

Why don't we move on.
Drew, with all due respect you skipped a few steps, let me help

Yakovlev Aviation designs the yak (fact)
Yakovlev Aviation produces the yak (fact)
Chris uses design to make smaller Yak (Fact)
Chris orders YAK (Fact)
Factory produces garbage (Chris's opinion)
chris rejects YAK and factory screws Chris (only Chris and the factory really know)
Another vendor feels the plane is worth buying
Factory sells planes to another vendor that had nothing to do with the problem
Factory uses the same design to make larger planes (not proven)
RCU threads spend countless hours talking about the same BS issue (no cost)
Drew has contributed to the above countless hours of the BS (no sweat)
JRjohn just got involved cause he's waiting for his engine to return from repair, and DA has it repaired and back in 2 days!

Old 07-26-2005, 11:21 PM
  #5733  
wgeffon
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: jrjohn


Chris orders YAK (Fact)
Factory produces garbage (Chris's opinion)
chris rejects YAK and factory screws Chris (only Chris and the factory really know)
John,

You forgot a minor detail.

Chris orders YAK and PAYS FOR THEM(Fact)
Factory produces garbage (Chris's opinion)
chris rejects YAK and factory screws Chris out if his money and his airplanes.(only Chris and the factory really know)

There were 800 planes ordered in that first shipment. 570 were rejected.
The 230 that were decent were supposed to be delivered to Chris. He is still waiting.




Old 07-26-2005, 11:40 PM
  #5734  
jrjohn
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Wayne, we sit here in judgment, yet none of us were there to hear the conversation and dealings that took place. I don't like to see anybody get screwed out of their money.

My point was not about the aledged screwing on paid for planes, it's about other vendors selling a YAK that resembles all other Yaks including the EF YaK

In my opinion they all stole the design from Yakovlev Aviation, even if they did change the landing gear or make the fus a touch longer. Anybody can look at the pictures and see its the same plane. ( not just the same name)

Saying the EF Yak is not a copy of the Yakovlev Aviation Yak because it smaller or has some minor changes is like saying the TOC Yak is not a copy of the EF Yak because the TOC Yak uses a 150 cc engine instead of 50 cc and it's bigger.
Old 07-27-2005, 12:09 AM
  #5735  
wgeffon
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

John,

I agree with you on the copying of designs initially starting from a 1:1 airplane.

My point was that for Chris, it has been more than that. They stole money from him. I see that as more serious than just a copyright infringement. I think you see that also but I think we are in the minority.

Chris is a very good friend of mine who has given me the priveledge of being a small part of his company from almost day one.
Trust me, I know the whole story of what has transpired.


Chris is past it and I have the utmost respect for him. I dont think I would have lasted as long as he has.
The good news is (and always has been) is that Chris wants nothing more than the public has access to his first class designs.
Hang tight, things in China may not be working as smoothly as he wants but he isnt going anywhere. Stuff is in the works. Stay tuned.
Old 07-27-2005, 03:29 AM
  #5736  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

It costs money to produce a new product....machine....materials...train people....
My opinion factory didn't steal his money...you don't pay 100% money up front before the product is delivered to you. If you do...big mistake. Many cases 15% up front and the rest when the product is at the port ready to ship. Chris may had it differently.
Very few people knows the real story. I don't either......so I'll drop it.
My tail is still crooked... cowl was cracked when I received it... carbon tail gear is delaminating...3 of nuts holding the landing gear bracket was loosed......looks like this shipment wasn't 100% right either. []
Speaking of crooked tail....does anyone remember where Chris posted how to fix this?
Old 07-27-2005, 05:52 AM
  #5737  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: WaPilot

It costs money to produce a new product....machine....materials...train people....
My opinion factory didn't steal his money...you don't pay 100% money up front before the product is delivered to you. If you do...big mistake. Many cases 15% up front and the rest when the product is at the port ready to ship. Chris may had it differently.
Very few people knows the real story. I don't either......so I'll drop it.
My tail is still crooked... cowl was cracked when I received it... carbon tail gear is delaminating...3 of nuts holding the landing gear bracket was loosed......looks like this shipment wasn't 100% right either. []
Speaking of crooked tail....does anyone remember where Chris posted how to fix this?
Here you go > http://extremeflightrc.com/productio...7Yak54_fix.htm
Old 07-27-2005, 05:57 AM
  #5738  
going vert
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly



Drew, with all due respect you skipped a few steps, let me help

Yakovlev Aviation designs the yak (fact)
Yakovlev Aviation produces the yak (fact)
Chris uses design to make smaller Yak (Fact)
Chris orders YAK (Fact)
Factory produces garbage (Chris's opinion)
chris rejects YAK and factory screws Chris (only Chris and the factory really know)
Another vendor feels the plane is worth buying
Factory sells planes to another vendor that had nothing to do with the problem
Factory uses the same design to make larger planes (not proven)
RCU threads spend countless hours talking about the same BS issue (no cost)
Drew has contributed to the above countless hours of the BS (no sweat)
JRjohn just got involved cause he's waiting for his engine to return from repair, and DA has it repaired and back in 2 days!
Thanks for filling that in.... Let's move on!
Old 07-27-2005, 06:05 AM
  #5739  
Tim_Indy
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: Ricmussman

I kinda like have a very unique plane that flies amazing, you will too.
Hey Ric, it was GREAT seeing you again at Burlington, and yepper, your "Red Bull" Yak is a SHARP looking plane. (Remember, LESS throw can be MORE!)

Catch you again at Cincy?

Tim
Old 07-27-2005, 06:48 AM
  #5740  
Tim_Indy
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Wayne, I know I'm late (don't get on here like I used to) but CONGRADULATIONS on a wonderful addition to your family!!!

Kinda reminds us not to sweat the small stuff, you might miss the GOOD STUFF!!
Old 07-27-2005, 06:57 AM
  #5741  
Fastlif
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

I vote for a thread on the plane, and nothing but the EF plane and what nots of info on just the plane. Not the debates that go on here. RCU should step in and scrub this thread, yeah yeah, I know, there is some good info on here, but that was like 70 pages ago, and try to find it with no search capability.
The drama that goes on now here is totally useless to someone trying to learn, setup, or gain info specific to "JUST this plane"!

I think it would do the RC community and Chris a favor if this thread was just about the plane, not TOC, ripoffs, what ifs, China, local meets, the weather and if winny the poo really likes honey! Flame all you want, but look in the mirror to see if you contribute to the swamp of useless bickering.

I finally got my hands on one of these airplanes and I try to come here to gain info or see setups, or whatever and its a joke.
Old 07-27-2005, 07:25 AM
  #5742  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

ORIGINAL: Fastlif

I vote for a thread on the plane, and nothing but the EF plane and what nots of info on just the plane. Not the debates that go on here. RCU should step in and scrub this thread, yeah yeah, I know, there is some good info on here, but that was like 70 pages ago, and try to find it with no search capability.
The drama that goes on now here is totally useless to someone trying to learn, setup, or gain info specific to "JUST this plane"!

I think it would do the RC community and Chris a favor if this thread was just about the plane, not TOC, ripoffs, what ifs, China, local meets, the weather and if winny the poo really likes honey! Flame all you want, but look in the mirror to see if you contribute to the swamp of useless bickering.

I finally got my hands on one of these airplanes and I try to come here to gain info or see setups, or whatever and its a joke.

I agree with the above.

i am as guilty of stoking the debate as anyone, I brought up the rejects months ago, when I stumbled upon one. Nothing will change until the US imposes it's copyrigt laws as prerequisite for importation of it's products. And the lobbyists will make sure that don't happen.

Until eveyone get righteous , and only buys American (yeah right), this will happen with unregulated manufacturers in offshore industries.

As far as rights to the aircraft Manu's...warbirds should be exempt, we paid for their development with taxes. The rest, pay up. It's only right, or you can't gripe about 'stolen " designs. Of course I think the publicity of a model would help the 1:1 ..I think. Yakolev has seen a spike in interest since the 54 became in vogue. I know , I looked at a 1:1 and spoke with 2 used plane dealers, who couldn't understand the interest until I said was a modeler.

We need a EF Yak-54 thread or site (ahem...Shutupandfly) with all the tips, mods and suggestons garnered from this thread. Everyone of them, even the ones some people don't like, just for parity.

When I go to finish mine, I will look for it. We can hit each other over the head here.
Old 07-27-2005, 07:27 AM
  #5743  
Maudib
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

When a plane this fantastic comes to market it develops a following... in this case... the Yak Pak. This thread was by Yak owners for Yak owners amd though yes it has gottem off topic, debates spawned, etc.

There is a tremendous amount of info here (even if it does take time to go through) and covers ever single aspect of the planes assembly, setup and mods.

Sure there hasn't been a lot of on topic items lately, because most have already assembled their planes and there are no more for new guys to come aborad with their questions.

When you fly the Yak, you too will become a "fan" and it may very well piss you off that the guy responsible for it went through small business hell to bring it to you.

People can choose to support whomever they want and discuss their reasons accordingly. A plane like this encourages a passion that extends beyond the flying. Why? BEcause we want to see MORE plkanes like this brought to market.

I happen to know the real scoop, and I tell ya, I would have thrown in the towel before these got to market. But a fella by the name of Chris hung in there, took his losses and beating and has consistently released his own great designs as well as other popular designs... Edge Profile, Mini 3D, E-Yak, and two sizes of Yaks.

As far as design goes... this plane isn't an exact copy of the Yak 54... PLENTY of development went into making it the RC plane it is... for instance the stab has been lowered and enlarged resulting in an effective and "no snap tendency" tail. These didn't happen overnite but took time to develop, initiate and test. Then there is concerns for balance, strength, weight, amenities, etc...

Chris's flight skills and design experience is what brought this plane to market.

So enough said. If you have questions about setting up your plane (you're a pretty experienced builder as it is) feel free to ask. But in the meantime, be a little considerate of the people who started this thread. It wasn't started for any particular person, but for those who feel the passion. These same people, myself included, have WAY more shared valuable info as they have stood on a soapbox, and for that very reason deserve to be given their time.

Again, in reality I'm not as much a supporter of EF than I am selfishly wanting to see ore great products like these come along. A 107" Yak will be awesome, some new electrics are under development, perhaps a BiPlane... I certainly would love to see these products from EF become available with the same attention to weight and quality as his previous offerings. And the only way I can help insure that is to support his company with my purchases and to steer clear of any product that the original manufacturer has an interest in...

If you still feel that a meat only thread is necessary, then feel free to start your own thread and police it as necessary.
Old 07-27-2005, 07:38 AM
  #5744  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

It's called integrity. And it's an individual thing.

It also amazes me how some people want to share our building knowledge, flying tips, etc. but not our opinions. Well I for one won't seperate the two... If I take the time to do a spinner cutting tutorial, or hatch latch mod tutorial, then by all means if I want to speak my mind on a "righteous" subject I will. Take what you want and I'll give what I want.

Otherwise we can start dual threads... those who want to participate in all apects of an ARF's existence... assembly, tips, mods, flying, failures, crashes, history, politics, etc and another that caters to the self-interested.

ORIGINAL: Bosshossv8


Until eveyone get righteous , and only buys American (yeah right), this will happen with unregulated manufacturers in offshore industries.

When I go to finish mine, I will look for it. We can hit each other over the head here.
Old 07-27-2005, 07:43 AM
  #5745  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: Fastlif

I know, there is some good info on here, but that was like 70 pages ago, and try to find it with no search capability.
Ahh, but there is a way, I guess you missed that just a few pages ago, before all this copyright drama.

ORIGINAL: AEROSHELDON

Use the search at the bottom when in the thread and it will say "search this thread".
Old 07-27-2005, 08:07 AM
  #5746  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly


ORIGINAL: stomper


ORIGINAL: WaPilot

It costs money to produce a new product....machine....materials...train people....
My opinion factory didn't steal his money...you don't pay 100% money up front before the product is delivered to you. If you do...big mistake. Many cases 15% up front and the rest when the product is at the port ready to ship. Chris may had it differently.
Very few people knows the real story. I don't either......so I'll drop it.
My tail is still crooked... cowl was cracked when I received it... carbon tail gear is delaminating...3 of nuts holding the landing gear bracket was loosed......looks like this shipment wasn't 100% right either. []
Speaking of crooked tail....does anyone remember where Chris posted how to fix this?
Here you go > http://extremeflightrc.com/productio...7Yak54_fix.htm
Be careful about that fix method! It may be true that some stabs were actually installed wrong, although I doubt it, considering the planes were built in a Jig. And if the jig was wrong, then there must have been several jigs wrong, because no one's fuses were twisted exactly the same amount or even in the same direction!
I checked mine and absolutely verified that the stab tub was perfectly purpendicular to the vert fin, while the wing tube was not inline with either. It is a simple case of a fuse twist as a result of the planes being covered while off the jig and the covering pulling the fuse in all sorts of different directions. I posted my 25 minute fix here somewhere and the fuse is still true. just do a search for "stab fix", "wrinkles" , or "twisted"...
Old 07-27-2005, 08:24 AM
  #5747  
Tim_Indy
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

ORIGINAL: Fastlif

there is some good info on here, but that was like 70 pages ago, and try to find it with no search capability.
Faslif, to search THIS thread, just scroll down to the bottom of the page and in the right corner see: "Search This Thread". Highlight it, and replace those words with your search phrase or word, click the "search" button, and you're in business.
Old 07-27-2005, 08:51 AM
  #5748  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

DAvid I agree with you, for the most part all the Yaks are built and there isn't much to talk about. Kinda reminds me of all the off topic conversation back when we were waiting for the first shipment. Now were waiting again. Remember the big scale debate! Hey, but when we were done we all knew where to buy a cheap scale and everybody was able to report weights of different mufflers, batteries, spinners, wheels and finished planes.

If I may give an opinion to those that feel they need to police thread topics and tell us what we can and can't say. First of all we live in America, and second, topics of discussion on on thread are like the common cold, they have to run their course, they will end when everybody has had enough and not one moment sooner.

I'm curious about one thing. If the rejected Yaks being sold by other vendors are Chris's Yak, then how come it's built different. ie enginebox length, firewall ect from the EF yak we recieved?
Old 07-27-2005, 09:19 AM
  #5749  
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Guys/Gals who are turned off by this thread simply need not read it. Remember, it's optional reading. If you are after the gems only then cut & paste...ignore the rest!
Old 07-27-2005, 10:24 AM
  #5750  
Fastlif
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Default RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly

Thanks for the search tip guys. That should help out alot. I understand your guys passion on the plane, Chris, hating copy cats etc... I have flown this plane many times, and love it, heck, thats why I searched and searched til I found one NIB to buy. I guess I view a forum about a specific plane a place where you talk about setups/info/product/problems/help/questions etc... Not, copyrights, this country, that country, and what other soapbox topics humans come up with? Maybe its just me.

I guess I will deal with it, especially now that I can search the thread. The whole thing with starting just a info thread on the plane has been done, YOU are reading it now. But we all see just how that turned out. The last thing I have time for is to start a new thread and somehow police it. I come here for info, sorry, and the rest of my free time is in the shop building the planes I want to fly. Right now its this one, so yeah, it would be interesting to open the thread and find cool info just on the plane. Not drama, bickering, politics and what ifs.

Matus you are right, and I am going to try to take you up on it. forums and public places on the net are just too easy for people to smash THEIR own ways or ideas on others when all that was needed was simple answers.

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