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DA50- Anybody Having Trouble?

Old 12-09-2004, 05:31 AM
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RICK9303
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Default DA50- Anybody Having Trouble?

I bought a DA50 back in June, and installed it in a PattyWagstaff Extra. I've been using 32 to 1 lawnboy ashless oil to breakin. I started out with 22x8 and after the second gallon went to a 22x10 pro Zinger prop. It has been running great up to a few weeks ago when it stopped after starting it. I found it was very hard to turn over, so off it went to DA. It was repaired under warranty, with no problems, and all new internals were replaced. Piston, crank, all bearings, and con rod. I have it back just like new, but when I asked about what went wrong in a email to them, I got no answer. I told them I had never had this happened before in my years with gas engines, and just wanted to confirm it was nothing I did. Has any one else had a problem with a new DA50? I love this motor, had no problem with DA in their handling of warranty work, I would just like to know if this was a parts failure fluke, that happens once in a while to manufacturers, or are there others that are having problems? I trust what has been said in the past about the excellent workmanship in these engines I would feel a lot better though if they would have emailed back, saying that they got a bad batch of bearings or found some flaws in some of the cranks. Any body else having problems?

Rick
Old 12-09-2004, 07:07 AM
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scottfl78
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Default RE: DA50- Anybody Having Trouble?

No problem with mine so far.. only got about 1/2 gallon through it or so.. I found when the weather went cold I had to richen it but no problems... I emailed them a question before I bought it and they replied within a day or 2.. 20x10 seems to be a small prop.. I run a 22x10.. I am no gasser expert but I wonder if you could have over-revved it? I am sure they would have said something though if you did..
Old 12-09-2004, 07:17 AM
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walton
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Default RE: DA50- Anybody Having Trouble?

You might have been over rev with the 20in props.
That is a bit small for that engine.
Old 12-09-2004, 08:37 AM
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JoeAirPort
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Default RE: DA50- Anybody Having Trouble?

Yeah those props you're running are perfect for a Moki 2.10 glow engine.
Old 12-09-2004, 08:47 AM
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CDignition
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Default RE: DA50- Anybody Having Trouble?

Agreed wite above...that prop is way small...I run a 23-8 Mejlik on mine...Zingers are known to go flat too...run at least a 22-10 Menz on it, otherwise it will happen again
Old 12-09-2004, 08:53 AM
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RICK9303
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Default RE: DA50- Anybody Having Trouble?

Made a mistype guys, it was 22x8 and 22x10 Zingers.
Sorry, Rick
Old 12-09-2004, 09:02 AM
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b-mccor8
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Default RE: DA50- Anybody Having Trouble?

I think you are running to small of a prop. Da rec. I believe a 22x8 prop for brake-in, maybe it is a 22x10, Either way I think that is your demon.
Old 12-09-2004, 10:04 AM
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CDignition
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Default RE: DA50- Anybody Having Trouble?

I would still ditch the zingers...they are junk
Old 12-09-2004, 10:30 AM
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JohnVH
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Default RE: DA50- Anybody Having Trouble?

ORIGINAL: CDignition

I would still ditch the zingers...they are junk
Agree'd, that includes the pro zingers..

I have my DA50 NIB yet, but hope to have her running in a couple weeks! Man its purty!
Old 12-09-2004, 02:20 PM
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edge_pilot
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Default RE: DA50- Anybody Having Trouble?

I agree with all the guys about using a bigger prop. BUT just because DA doesn't email you back doesn't mean anything. There email service has alittle to be desired. On the other hand My personal experiance with them on warranty work or phone service is second to none. I have alot of DA stuff (2-DA-150's ,Airplane kits, etc.) and they still don't answer my emails. Everytime I have called them though or sent stuff to them they have treated me with only the upmost respect and fixed anything for FREE!!!!!!!
Old 12-09-2004, 02:27 PM
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ben beyer
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Default RE: DA50- Anybody Having Trouble?

Is the break in fuel oil ratio the same for the single as is the double? In other words, in the twins do you run 32:1 ashless for 5 gallons and then 100:1 amsoil on the twins? Anyone just running a 50:1 ratio of amsoil?
Old 12-09-2004, 02:42 PM
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edge_pilot
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Default RE: DA50- Anybody Having Trouble?

you should never mix oil 50:1 unless its made to be mixed that way. I ran Yamalube petrolium based oil at 50:1 for breakin then switched over to amzoil 100:1. I have alot of gas through both my DA-150's and they both run better everyday. As long as you run GOOD quality petrolium based oil during breakin it doesn't matter which one you use. Don't go to your local Wal-Mart and buy the Wal-mart brand oil.
Old 12-09-2004, 06:40 PM
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talon58
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Default RE: DA50- Anybody Having Trouble?

My DA50 with about 3 gallons of gas (with LB 32:1) dead sticked twice in the last 4 flights. Then would not start at all. Sent it back to DA (after great phone support). The found the ignition module was bad.

BUT........... The best thing about the service, was that they replaced the crank and the connecting rod. The newer DA50's have "better" connecting rods and cranks, so they "upgraded" my DA50. Plus they overnighted the motor back to me.

You can't ask for better service.
Old 12-09-2004, 06:53 PM
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scottfl78
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Default RE: DA50- Anybody Having Trouble?

I'll tell ya I have only had my DA for about a month or so but I am sure glad I went with it.. I have found nothing but good things said about them.. So anyhow have we solved Rick's problem??
Old 12-09-2004, 06:59 PM
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famousdave
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Default RE: DA50- Anybody Having Trouble?

A word of the wise l.... break in use a Menz S 22x 8 After a gallon or two go to a MenzS 22x10 or better yet Mejzlik or Bolly 22x10 if you have the cash. 3W props are very good also. I have run as large as a Bolly 24x8, but you get too much tip noise and less ground clearance. Overall , that prop has the best 3D pulling power though... but man is it noisy.


Dont ever run Zinger, Bambula, or *anything* CHEAP for props on these engines. Save those props for paint sticks or you Zenoahs. Yes, they might fly the plane, but they all flatten out and vibrate excessively. Take one of these props and laterally flex them. The fact that you can flex them at all should tell you right there that they are no good. Try that with a MenzS, you will have a much tougher time. Its impossible with a good CF prop. FLEX = Lost energy = lost thrust and vibration.

Fly a MenzS or Mejzlik once and you will never even consider those other props again. They make that much of a difference in performance and vibration. If you are going to put the $$ into one thing, do it on the prop.

Putting cheapo wood props on a DA-50 is like forking out the cash to buy a Mark Levinson Amplifier and then going to Radio Shack for Speakers.
It just don't make sense!!!

DP
Old 12-09-2004, 07:23 PM
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sillyness
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Default RE: DA50- Anybody Having Trouble?

Aren't the new Bamulas OK? I have a couple and they look just like Menz/3W copies. They're very stiff.
Old 12-09-2004, 07:38 PM
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rmh
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Default RE: DA50- Anybody Having Trouble?

FWIW- The new Bambula's are stiffer than the MenzS- they are thicker at high point - they may be inexpensive but are very good quality. all of mine have flawless grain pattern.
The higher revs you setup to run - the more important a accurate stiff prop needs to be.
I run my tuned pipe ZDZ50 at 7400+ on the ground on the Mejzlic 22x10 --these seem to have the least tip movement .
Even the 22x8 run up to almost 7800 stays smooth . (I don't fly that setup )
for staying under 7000- any well made, properly balanced, beechwood wood works fine .
The Zinger Pro props - -are quite flexible even in the 6000 range -also they tend to be comparitively under pitched.
for example when we ran a bunch of tests last year on a 40 - the plane flew about the same on a Bambula 22x8 -or a Zinger Pro 22x10 - we were taching about 6500 on the ground-either prop .
I only include these rpm numbers as a prop speed referrence.
Trying to match rpm over the internet is simply a game -
Old 12-09-2004, 08:33 PM
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ben beyer
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Default RE: DA50- Anybody Having Trouble?

ORIGINAL: edge_pilot

you should never mix oil 50:1 unless its made to be mixed that way. I ran Yamalube petrolium based oil at 50:1 for breakin then switched over to amzoil 100:1. I have alot of gas through both my DA-150's and they both run better everyday. As long as you run GOOD quality petrolium based oil during breakin it doesn't matter which one you use. Don't go to your local Wal-Mart and buy the Wal-mart brand oil.

What about using the 50:1 (TDR I believe) Amsoil or even just using Pennzoil Air Cooled in it? I'm gonna do one of the two for my ZDZ 50 NG.
Old 12-09-2004, 08:56 PM
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Default RE: DA50- Anybody Having Trouble?

RICK9303,

Don't feel bad on your DA-50. I had 7 1/2 gal. through mine, and the rod really started knocking. I call DA and they said to send it in. They put in a new crank, cylinder, ring, bearings, rod, no charge. I'm starting to get the impression the the rod bearings are going to be the weak link on these engines. After my break in on this rebuild, I am staying with Mobil MX2T at 40:1. I'm hoping the extra oil, along with the upgraded rod, will take care of this problem. I sure do love the power these things put out though.
Old 12-09-2004, 09:05 PM
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Nogyro
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Default RE: DA50- Anybody Having Trouble?

ORIGINAL: desertpig

A word of the wise l.... break in use a Menz S 22x 8 After a gallon or two go to a MenzS 22x10 or better yet Mejzlik or Bolly 22x10 if you have the cash. 3W props are very good also. I have run as large as a Bolly 24x8, but you get too much tip noise and less ground clearance. Overall , that prop has the best 3D pulling power though... but man is it noisy.

DP
desertpig,

I couldn't agree more. I broke mine in on a Mejzlik 22 x 10, and it turned up at 7200. Since then I have tried the MenzS 22 x 10, Bolly 22 x 10 wood, and Bolly 23 x 8 wood. I couldn't believe the howl the 23 x 8 made. Just too noisy for me. But I've got to tell you the Bolly 22 x 10 wood is my fovorite prop! Plenty of speed like the Mejzlik, but a much better 3D prop. I'm getting 6300 with the 23 x 8, and 6600 with the Bolly 22 x 10, and 6100 with the MenzS 22 x 10. Running the Slimline Pitts. I can't get over how much difference the props make when doing harriers and TR'ing. All of these wood props have much better pull at lower rpms than the Mejzlik. And for me anyways, I could TR much easier with the wood props.
Old 12-09-2004, 09:28 PM
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Robotech
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Default RE: DA50- Anybody Having Trouble?

Just a side note. How would this crank and rod issue affect the DA100? It is just two opposing 50's.
Old 12-09-2004, 09:40 PM
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Nogyro
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Default RE: DA50- Anybody Having Trouble?

I wondered the same thing. You never hear of any crank or rod problems with the DA-100.
Old 12-09-2004, 11:28 PM
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famousdave
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Default RE: DA50- Anybody Having Trouble?

A lot Less RPM

DP
Old 12-10-2004, 12:24 AM
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Default RE: DA50- Anybody Having Trouble?

Desertpig, This is off topic but who is Mark Levinson? Never heard of his amplifiers.
Old 12-10-2004, 12:45 AM
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Rick Sowell
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Default RE: DA50- Anybody Having Trouble?

I think the reason nobody has heard of rod problems on the DA 100 is the rods in the 100 are steel, they used an aluminum rod in the 50 to save weight and faster spool up, and this has come back to bite them, the new up grade for the 50 is to put a lightened steel rod from the 100 in the 50. mine was one of the first to get this upgrade after four rods and cranks that failed due to bearings going away. I have since changed to Mobil MX2T at 32:1 and have had no carbon or any other issues at all. the Amsoil at 100:1 is too lean, you don't hear of any other manufacturer recomending that ratio. also my new ZDZ 80 came with a bottle of Penzoil air cooled and a bottle of Mobil MX2T to use after break in. goes to show that RC Showcase is on top of things in the oil department. Rick.

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