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WEIGHT REDUCTION H9 33% CAP

Old 01-05-2005, 08:03 PM
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rcrick
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Default WEIGHT REDUCTION H9 33% CAP

I am looking for weight reduction ideas for this plane. It it presently stock with aZDZ 80 single. I am building an in the cowl custom exhaust system and I am wanting to offset its weight by reducing the weight of the plane especially forward of the wing tube. I am already looking at C.F. main gear and wing tube, but I am interested what others have done.

Rick
Old 01-06-2005, 01:58 AM
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Default RE: WEIGHT REDUCTION H9 33% CAP

Go to lithium batteries. That'll save you probably half a pound depending on what you're using now.
Fromeco rocks.
Old 01-06-2005, 02:45 AM
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Default RE: WEIGHT REDUCTION H9 33% CAP

rcrick, you will love this plane!
I unfortunately lost mine a few weeks ago due to the engine dieing while torque rolling about 20' high.[:@]
I had the pleasure of flying it for 3 years.
Mine started heavy (over 27lbs) with a McMinarelli 85, 2 Rx, 2 SR 1600 Mah Nicad batteries + one 1400 Mah NiMh battery on the ignition, 2 Matchboxes and 8 JR 8411 servos.
I ended up saving over 2 lbs (maybe 3lbs, not sure) by switching to DA 100, 1 Rx, 1 TBM LiIon 4400 Mah Rx batt, 1 TBM LiIon 2200 Mah ignition batt, 8 Hitec 5945 servos, TBM carbon fiber landing gear/ wing tube and spinner. You can also save weight with a wood prop, but I like the Mejzlik too much. Hangar 9 has new vrey lite wheels too that can help.
FYI, I had the Rx battery as far back in the fuse as I could reach to tie it, and I still needed some weight in the tail to balance toward the middle of the recommended CG range.
The plane flew great in regular fying, and did awsome 3D; in particular the parachutes, walls, very stable elevators and harriers (with no spoilerons mixing).

I wanted a change, so I am now assembling a Hangar-9 33% Extra, in which I am re-using all the same equipment.

Hope this helps
Old 01-06-2005, 06:51 AM
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Geistware
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Default RE: WEIGHT REDUCTION H9 33% CAP

GO to TBM website.
They have tons of recommendations and examples of how to reduce weight in Giant Scale planes. The direct link is here [link=http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/L80ccA.htm]Troy Built Models[/link]
Old 01-06-2005, 10:02 AM
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rmh
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Default RE: WEIGHT REDUCTION H9 33% CAP

Reducing weight on the Cap -pretty straight forward really -
No need to futz with batteries - a single HD 2700 ma radio batt and a 1100 ma ignition batt - you can spend a lot but not reduce this by more than a very few ounces - . These new cells can be quickly field charged and have terrific output. look into Cheap Batteries or other electric motor batt suppliers -
Carbo fibre ?
waste of money .
a very few ounces to be saved.
The landing gear ?
toss it and have a narrow 2024 T3 aluminum gear made from 3/32 stock - it is a simple bend - use light wheels and ditch the wheel pants .
Big weight saving.
Spinner CB 4" plastic cone with aluminum backplate - works great - cheap n light and accurate

you can easily be at under 23 lbs - My CAP has a ZDZ100 NG and weighs twenty three the only mod is the lighter gear -
Do use a pull pull rudder servo - up front (one 8611)
8411SA elevator servos - 811 (4) aileron servos -
Or ask Mike M -he designed the model.
he doesn't use lots of expensive extras either .
Having built a lot of the 33% H9 models -I can't see how anyone gets them over 24 lbs without simply piling in extra stuff.
Using the ZDZsingle the only problem is going tailheavy by placing parts in the wrong spots.

Old 01-06-2005, 11:12 AM
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Turbobruce
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Default RE: WEIGHT REDUCTION H9 33% CAP

ORIGINAL: dick Hanson

Reducing weight on the Cap -pretty straight forward really -
No need to futz with batteries - a single HD 2700 ma radio batt and a 1100 ma ignition batt - you can spend a lot but not reduce this by more than a very few ounces - . These new cells can be quickly field charged and have terrific output. look into Cheap Batteries or other electric motor batt suppliers -
Carbo fibre ?
waste of money .
a very few ounces to be saved.
The landing gear ?
toss it and have a narrow 2024 T3 aluminum gear made from 3/32 stock - it is a simple bend - use light wheels and ditch the wheel pants .
Big weight saving.
Spinner CB 4" plastic cone with aluminum backplate - works great - cheap n light and accurate

you can easily be at under 23 lbs - My CAP has a ZDZ100 NG and weighs twenty three the only mod is the lighter gear -
Do use a pull pull rudder servo - up front (one 8611)
8411SA elevator servos - 811 (4) aileron servos -
Or ask Mike M -he designed the model.
he doesn't use lots of expensive extras either .
Having built a lot of the 33% H9 models -I can't see how anyone gets them over 24 lbs without simply piling in extra stuff.
Using the ZDZsingle the only problem is going tailheavy by placing parts in the wrong spots.



I have had 4 H9 planes and have not added anything extra to them and they all came out at 25lbs or above! Heck I even used a ZDZ 80 in the Sukhoi and it was 25lbs 8oz.
Carbon Fiber will save at least 9oz on the wing tube and landing gear. I will be using the carbon fiber wing tube,landing gear and spinner as well as lions on my new h9 330s. This plane will be on a serious diet. It will be a little pricey but I expect to loose at least 20-24oz of weight.

Dick, you must work some serious magic on these planes!!
Old 01-06-2005, 11:55 AM
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famousdave
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Default RE: WEIGHT REDUCTION H9 33% CAP

Here is how I built a recent one for a customer... I disagree with the CF and Battery comments above, while expensive, they do save real weight and you will NEVER have to bring a field charger as they will last you all weekend, not just a few hours. The numbers don't lie. Final weigh in was 22 pounds 3 oz dry. This plane literally floats on 1/5 throttle..


ZDZ 80 NG
PEFA cannister and custom header
Pete's CF ultra 4" light spinner
Mejzlik CF prop
ONE 8611 on each aileron (inboard) , mlp 1.5" arms, H9 Pro links, Rocket City horns
ONE 8611 on each elevator half, mlp 1.5" arms, Arts Hobbies CF / Titanium pushrods
ONE Hitec 5955TG on rudder pull-pull, Airwild Uni-Hub and Nelson 5" arm, nelson cables, airwild 4-40 ends
ONE Hitech digi-mini on throttle, manual choke
ONE Duralite #4704 4000 Mah redundant Li-Ion pack (RX)
ONE fromeco Super Regulated 6V Reliaswitch (RX)
ONE Fromeco 2200 MaH Li-Ion pack (Ign)
ONE Duralite fail safe 5.1 V regulated switch (Ign)
ONE RCATS relay ignition cut-off switch
DuBro 24 oz fuel tank, Aerotrend Blue Fuel line
DA fuel dot

Troybuilt CF Wing and Stab Tubes
Graphtech Large Tail Wheel assy
Graphtech Main Landing Gear
Kavan 5" Main wheels
Arts Hobbies CF servo tray (actually, made it from a sheet of CF).

We hand built all the harnesses and kept them as short as possible, soldering all connections (no connectors to fail)
We reversed one elevator servo and used a fabricated Y-cable to eliminate extra wiring (long) in the tail

We drilled 4 2" holes in aft part of canopy hatch floor and stripped the light ply / replaced it with balsa sheet (6 oz removed) I had pondered rebuilding the hatch.. it is sooo heavy on this bird for no apparent reason. The only reason I didn't is that I was out of foam. No doubt I could have removed 10oz from the canopy hatch alone.

NO PILOT or INST PANEL.. waste of weight.
Carefully drilled some small holes in the tail gear plate .. 1.5 oz saved
We ditched the H9 wheel pants (way heavy) and used some Columbo Anderson pants we had laying around... easy 4 oz saved
We hole sawed anywhere we could where there was a lot of plywood and no reason for it.. ! (i.e. bottom of engine box, etc)

The cowl and pants were flashed with very light coats of single color automotive enamel and a final flash coat of poly clear...
NO VINYL graphics.. esp on the tail.. !

This is a very viable 3D / Imac plane at this weight... actually it flies nice when its at its "normal" weight, but to make it a monster you have to put it on a diet. I admit the project went over budget, but then again.. don't they all!

I almost put one together for myself, but a, I could not find one.. and B.. I already had a CA 31% that flies the same, is easier to transport, and is even lighter 19.5# on a 3W-75!

Very nice plane with a lot of potential!!
DP
Old 01-06-2005, 01:00 PM
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rmh
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Default RE: WEIGHT REDUCTION H9 33% CAP

That works -but I was addressing a simple low cost setup .
My light stuff is far lighter than these ARFS.
But my scales are correct - I calibrate them using weights from my OHaus beam scales which are old laboratory scales and use the brass calibration weights.
The 22 lb Cap can be done with none of the higher cost stuff.
Our Extras -using ZDZ80 were this weight - just simple batts and a light aluminum gear .
When we did the go fer it versions --meaning recover and lighten then weight dropped fast
_ I also did some using my own wings n stabs n rudder - these are my favorites but a lot of work to shed a few lbs.
My Giles scratch built using the H9 cowl n canopy - 18 lbs w 80 n JMB can -
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Old 01-06-2005, 02:37 PM
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Default RE: WEIGHT REDUCTION H9 33% CAP

Or, if you wanna IMAC the thing, make a removable pilot figure that you can put in for competition and take out for 3D. Same with the instrument panel.
Old 01-06-2005, 04:01 PM
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rmh
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Default RE: WEIGHT REDUCTION H9 33% CAP

that's 2 ounces---
Old 01-06-2005, 04:34 PM
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Default RE: WEIGHT REDUCTION H9 33% CAP

Dick - I agree with you on the lower cost / lower weight route.. a lot easier to do when you are building your own. ARFs are hard to keep lean that's why I don't do them very often... If more people would see how a real light-built plane flew vs. their piggy ARFs, they would probably be more apt to either build one themselves, or pay someone to built one for them.

There are many things I could have done to make the H9 Cap lighter, unfortunately, I wasn't in the mood to convert it back to a kit!!

I use a portable strain gauge, similar to what they weigh real planes with, but much smaller. It takes 3 readings - one at each main gear and one at the tail and calculates total mass. Its accurate to within a few grams and I have it NIST calibrated once a year so I know its accurate. It keeps me honest if nothing else! Its very handy for setting up planes.

It was this same scale that told me my latest (B)ARF project (BME Edge) was way heavier than advertised. I ended up with a 50CC plane that weighs 17.5 pounds and since its very tail biased, taking weight out forward of the CG does nothing so I skipped all the CF accessories! Still flies nice, just not very light.

The sub 23# H9 Cap on the other hand was simply amazing.. !
If one did some serious mods, and used the simple battery approach as you mentioned, rebuilt the hatch ..etc I'll bet 22 pounds would be achievable.. on that engine and wing loading ..wow!

PS: the expensive pilots are 2 oz.. the cheapo's (if you call $30 cheap) are 4-6 oz... ouch. I don't put any pilots in my planes, black out the cockpits -its my trademark. I have heard IMAC usually does not take off points anyway unless you get a CD who is a fundamentalist... its a dumb rule anyway.. and besides.. the 1% deduction really won't have any effect on my score!

DP
Old 01-06-2005, 05:58 PM
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Default RE: WEIGHT REDUCTION H9 33% CAP

Our own pilots were the lightest -but we no longer make em
maybeagain-I am busy with other stuff
here is my 18 lb Giles ZDZ80 on can and Darin Pierce -who borrowed it for a contest -( I was CD)- and one of my 33%pilots Vinnie Italian boy-(not on the can)
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Old 01-06-2005, 08:26 PM
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famousdave
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Default RE: WEIGHT REDUCTION H9 33% CAP

Dick -

Looks real nice... its good to see someone else who thinks planes should fly great (i.e. light) first and then look their best second. Getting them both right takes talent!
18 pounds on that engine... ?? that's damn near illegal!! As I mentioned above my DA50 Edge just came in at 17.5... sux..

I am getting there with you, but you have a few years experience on me! Actually, your posts in RCU have opened my eyes to many new ideas! Thanks!

That pilot looks really nice.. so why can't we buy something that looks that good, weighs little and is not expensive??

I would tend to use pilots more if they all did not look like crap and weigh a lot... for now I will continue to black out the cockpit..

DP
Old 01-07-2005, 09:22 PM
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rcrick
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Default RE: WEIGHT REDUCTION H9 33% CAP

What about drilling lightening holes in the engine box side pieces ?What size,etc. ? The engine box is stock except I removed the alum. corner braces and replaced them with tri-stock and I cut the center out of the top pc. for carb. air and servicing access.

Rick
Old 01-07-2005, 09:52 PM
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Default RE: WEIGHT REDUCTION H9 33% CAP

That would not be a good idea. you want as much "beef" on the sides, that is the area that carries the majority of the load.. The top and bottom can be drilled like swiss cheese...

DP
Old 01-10-2005, 01:03 PM
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Default RE: WEIGHT REDUCTION H9 33% CAP

If I don't mount anything onto the top of my engine box I remove it (if there is one) all together.

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