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1/4 SCALE CAP 232 FORUM

Old 05-03-2005, 08:00 AM
  #101  
Ron McGrath
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Default RE: 1/4 SCALE CAP 232 FORUM

What does your h9 cap weigh ?
Old 05-03-2005, 11:10 AM
  #102  
beausol
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Default RE: 1/4 SCALE CAP 232 FORUM

Haven't weighed it yet. I'm guessing around 14 lbs.
Old 05-03-2005, 12:37 PM
  #103  
seanychen
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Default RE: 1/4 SCALE CAP 232 FORUM

Here is a video of my Kangke Cap 120 1/4 scale, powered by ST G2300, swinging APC 18x6W @ 8500 rpm, 12.5 lb.

http://www.rcpics.net/media/Cap.wmv
Old 05-05-2005, 12:00 PM
  #104  
goldenclan
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Default RE: 1/4 SCALE CAP 232 FORUM

Hello all, I have a kangre cap 232 1.20. This is what I am running in the beast.
Engine is an os 1.60 fx with pitts muffler
All servos are 5645 hitecs except for the throttle and it is a 645 (had one laying around) and it is mounted to the fire wall
servo reverser on the elevators
2 6v 2300 mAhr batts in parralell (going to switch to li-po's w/regulator later)

I have not added any weight to the plane yet and I am trying to keep from doing that for now. It is still tail heavy with the batts next to the fuel tank. I was thinking about adding a smoke system and use part of it to help balance the plane. I would rather add usable to weight to the plane instead of lead. Any suggestions or tips?
Old 05-05-2005, 03:51 PM
  #105  
Gremlin Castle
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Default RE: 1/4 SCALE CAP 232 FORUM

The 160 will not generate enough exhaust heat to give a really strong smoke trail. It is visible but not all that impressive. Also unless the smoke tank is on the cg the bulk of the tail heavy problem returns as the smoke oil is pumped out. Put the lead out in the front of the cowl and reinforce the cowl mountings to hold the added weight.
Once you get used to flying the plane there is a good chance that you will be removing weight and moving the cg aft. On my H-9 Cap the current cg is about 1 1/4 inches aft of the starting point. The airframe now requires no stick pressure either upright or inverted to hold level flight. It also requires less rudder input in the knife edge manuevers.
ORIGINAL: goldenclan

Hello all, I have a kangre cap 232 1.20. This is what I am running in the beast.
Engine is an os 1.60 fx with pitts muffler
All servos are 5645 hitecs except for the throttle and it is a 645 (had one laying around) and it is mounted to the fire wall
servo reverser on the elevators
2 6v 2300 mAhr batts in parralell (going to switch to li-po's w/regulator later)

I have not added any weight to the plane yet and I am trying to keep from doing that for now. It is still tail heavy with the batts next to the fuel tank. I was thinking about adding a smoke system and use part of it to help balance the plane. I would rather add usable to weight to the plane instead of lead. Any suggestions or tips?
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Old 05-05-2005, 04:01 PM
  #106  
seanychen
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Default RE: 1/4 SCALE CAP 232 FORUM

Use lighter servos like the 5475. It weighs 0.6 oz lighter than 5645 each. 2 of these will save 1.2 oz at the tail, which means CG will be shifted forward by 1/4". Each of the elevators is not that heavy duty, and does not need 5645. I have tried even weaker servos like JR 537 on these elevators, and they don't see to be a problem. There will be problem if hinges are binding though.

The Kangke Cap 120 is best to kept the CG at dead center of recommended range (5" behind LE if I recall correctly). Flying at 5-1/4" the aft end of the recommended range will make landing porpoising, and may risk stalling (nose-first, not tip stall) if you get the airspeed too slow. Besides, rudder coupling is the least when CG is at 5".
Old 05-05-2005, 04:02 PM
  #107  
3D Joy
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Default RE: 1/4 SCALE CAP 232 FORUM

Put your batteries in a bag under the engine in front of the firewall. You can also get cushioned boxes to keep your batteries from fuel, etc...
Old 05-05-2005, 04:58 PM
  #108  
goldenclan
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Default RE: 1/4 SCALE CAP 232 FORUM

Wow, Thanks for all of the information!!!!!! Did some more run time on the os today, ran 2 tanks thru the beast doing the os recommended tuning.(wife is going to kill me when she see the dead spot in the lawn) I have seen some people block off one of the pitts muffler pipes because of a problem with the tank preasure. I am planning on pre heating the oil by running it thru some copper tubbing wrapped around the muffler. But I will look into replaceing the two elevator servos in the tail, and replaceing the push rods with some carbon fiber push rods. As for the batts, I have them mounted to the sided of the fuel tank and velcroed in. I also put the foam back in the front. I did mound a smoke oil tank and it is right on the cg.
Old 05-05-2005, 10:04 PM
  #109  
beausol
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Default RE: 1/4 SCALE CAP 232 FORUM

Well, guys, I finally got my H9 73" CAP in the air today!

The ZDZ 40 in it is mis-propped. The guys before me put a Bambula 20x8 wood prop on it. Running it up, it seems to get to a peak RPM at about 1/2 throttle, and it just doesn't sound like it's getting to where it needs to be. I double checked the butterfly valve and it is full open right at the full throttle input. I have adjusted the high end to give me the peak performance at full throttle too.

I checked with the manufacturer and they recommend a prop from a 20x10 to a 22x10. I wouldn't think that these would be the best for it because they're bigger than the 20x8. Maybe I'm missing something. I do have an APC 20x8 in my shop, and it seems to have a lot of the mass toward the hub, rather than out near the tip like the Bambula, so maybe this one would be better. I'll also get a tach and make sure that the rpm is getting to the 7100-7500 range like it's supposed to. Maybe I'm just used to the 9000 that my OS 1.60FX spins and the 7000 for the 40 seems a but sluggish.

I'm going to drill the holes in the APC tomorrow and try it next time.

Anyway, back to the flight....

The wind was about 20 degrees off to the left of a direct headwind, anywhere from 5 to 15 mph.

Takeoff was SO smooth, it was like the plane was on autopilot. Taking her around the pea patch for trimming was a non-event....it took hardly any trim in any axis to have her flying straight as an arrow. It's noseheavy too....balancing about 1/4 inch forward of where the manual recommends for the first flight, so I know I can come back on that quite a bit.

Low rates as set up per the manual made for some of the prettiest scale aerobatics I've flown in a long time. This thing flew like it was on rails. I did some great axial aileron rolls, loops, cuban eights, hammerheads, etc and all were very easy and true. Switching to high rates made for some snappy rolls and the old tip stall when I cranked back on the elevator. Hey, if that's its only bad habit, that's fine with me....I never yank it back anyway. It always dropped the right wing in every attitude with full aft stick.

Another clue that the prop is wrong: Not stellar vertical performance. I would think that with about 23 lbs of thrust and a 15 or so lb airplane, that vertical would be unlimited. But it wasn't. It was good, mind you, but it would stop and fall off. A guy at the field suggested going to a smaller prop, like an 18x8, but the manual is saying bigger is better. I'll drill out my APC 20x8 and try it first. If that helps, I'll stick with it, and will maybe get an APC 20x10 or a 22x10, since I have read of cases with the same engine and those props with great results. Also, I did a double snap roll to the left and the engine sounded like it slowed down a lot while under the strain of the rolls. My OS 1.60FX doesn't do that.

Landing was surprisingly tame. My low end on the engine seems a bit high, and it will take a little tweaking to get it perfect. So my finals were a little hot, but she settled down nicely at about midfield and stopped before the end of our 400 grass runway. I was a *little* nervous about getting her too slow on final and stalling her in, but after the third or fourth approach, those fears went away. I could probably slow her down even more without a problem.

Anyway, two flights in the hopper....and I may get more in on Saturday morning. The wife is going to be out all day and I will have my 2 month old son to watch, but I think I could get him to the field for a couple of hours and get a flight or two in while some friends keep an eye on him for me.

More to come.....with a report on the new prop(s) when I can.

--Rich
Old 05-06-2005, 05:23 AM
  #110  
FenceMagnet
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Default RE: 1/4 SCALE CAP 232 FORUM

Well, after letting it vegitate under the bench for 4 years with a broken landing gear, I've decided to update my H9 Cap 232.... yanked the Saito 150, a 180 is slated to replace it..... took out the 16 oz. tank, batteries, receiver, servo's and mounts, rudder pull-pull's and elevator push rod.... putting a 24 oz. tank at the CG...... oooopppss.... wait.... where was that CG.... cant find the manual

the pdf is no longer online at Horizon.... dumb move.... they should leave 'em there.... anyone have a manual handy? How about the reccomended control deflections.... HELP !!!!


[:-]

Old 05-06-2005, 07:15 AM
  #111  
3D Joy
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Default RE: 1/4 SCALE CAP 232 FORUM

Sounds like your ZDZ 40 is too lean. It should pull your 14 lbs plane without too much troubble. I have flown one on a 13 lbs plane and it pulled HARD. I asked the guy to put some expo on the throttle to make the throttle more linear. Futaba = negative expo...
Old 05-06-2005, 07:44 AM
  #112  
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Default RE: 1/4 SCALE CAP 232 FORUM

Fencemagnet, What is your e-mail address? I have the manual for the 120 size 73" H9 CAP 232 in .pdf format.

3D Joy: I may try the expo, but if I make it richer on the high end, I get less rpm than before. I actually flew it richer on the first flight than the second and the performance increased when I leaned it out a bit.

I'll try the APC 20x8 prop and re-check the timing on the ignition sensor to make sure that's good to go. Also, this thing is so nose-heavy that it doesn't want to stay on a vertical line too long, so I may also move the cg back about 1/2 inch and see if that makes it a better flier all-around.

Thanks,

Rich
Old 05-06-2005, 07:58 AM
  #113  
3D Joy
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Default RE: 1/4 SCALE CAP 232 FORUM

Remember that the low speed needle has an effect to high speed and not the other way around. I suspect your low speed is too rich and high speed too lean. I may be wrong but your engine SHOULD produce more power! Std in-cowl muffler? How is the transition?

As you say, it may very well be a timing issue also. In fact, it makes more sense to be that IMO.
Old 05-06-2005, 08:22 AM
  #114  
beausol
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Default RE: 1/4 SCALE CAP 232 FORUM

I have the RC Showcase Pitts muffler for the ZDZ 40.

The transition is OK. My low end is very erratic, which is what is making me think it's a timing problem. If I adjust the low end until it's running really smooth (a clockwise rotation of the low end screw....I'm assuming that's leaning it out), then the idle's too high and the plane will taxi at idle. But if I drop it down, then it will go for a couple of seconds fine and then drop for a second to almost quit, and then will pick back up again. If I go too far, it will quit when I rev it up and chop it to idle.

By the way, I'm running 50:1 on the fuel, with premium unleaded gas and the 2-stroke oil you get at home improvement stores for a weedeater, and I can't tell you if it's synthetic or not (don't flame me on that if it's bad....I don't know any better).

I'm learning as I go here, so if you have more experience in gas engines than I do (which should be easy), then any help is appreciated.

--Rich
Old 05-06-2005, 09:47 AM
  #115  
FenceMagnet
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Default RE: 1/4 SCALE CAP 232 FORUM

Rich... ThankYou!! ThankYou!! ThankYou!! ThankYou!! ThankYou!! ThankYou!!

jimwhite(at)tampabay(dot)rr(dot)com

BTW, concerning your low end... "If I adjust the low end until it's running really smooth (a clockwise rotation of the low end screw....I'm assuming that's leaning it out), then the idle's too high and the plane will taxi at idle." ..... this is normal, use the low speed needle to adjust the mixture (not speed) and use the transmitter trim aand/or the idle stop screw to adjust the idle speed.... as you screw the needle in and lean it out, the speed will increase, then lower the speed by backing out the stop screw....

and again, ThankYou!! ThankYou!! ThankYou!! ThankYou!! ThankYou!! ThankYou!!

[:-]
Old 05-06-2005, 09:54 AM
  #116  
Gremlin Castle
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Default RE: 1/4 SCALE CAP 232 FORUM

Excerpted quote from page 41 of the manual as follows,"The recommended C.G. location for the first flight with the CAP 232 is 5 5/8" from the leading edge of the wing, measured at the fuselage. If necessary, add weight to either the tail or nose until the correct balance is achieved."

Control throws also on page 41 as follows. Low rate High Rate 3-D rate
UP Down Up Down Up Down
Aileron measured furthest inboard 1/2" 7/16" 3/4" 5/8" 3/4" 5/8"
Elevator " " " 1 1/8" 1 1/8" 1 3/4" 1 3/4" 4" 4"
Rudder measured from bottom of rudder Right/Left Right/Left Right/Left
3" 4 1/2" 4 1/2"

Hope this helps.
ORIGINAL: FenceMagnet

Well, after letting it vegitate under the bench for 4 years with a broken landing gear, I've decided to update my H9 Cap 232.... yanked the Saito 150, a 180 is slated to replace it..... took out the 16 oz. tank, batteries, receiver, servo's and mounts, rudder pull-pull's and elevator push rod.... putting a 24 oz. tank at the CG...... oooopppss.... wait.... where was that CG.... cant find the manual

the pdf is no longer online at Horizon.... dumb move.... they should leave 'em there.... anyone have a manual handy? How about the reccomended control deflections.... HELP !!!!


[:-]

Old 05-06-2005, 10:57 PM
  #117  
thepilot
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Default RE: 1/4 SCALE CAP 232 FORUM

I LOVE THE FACT YOU GUYS WANT THE SAME THING I DO. I AM CURRENTLY SETTING UP THE H9 CAP 232 1/4 SCALE WITH A FUJI 43ccEI. I CHOSE THIS MOTOR FOR THE WEIGHT 3.5 POUNDS W/ MUFFLER (THAT CAN BE REDUCED IN THE FINS BY MILLING THEM AND IN THE HUGE EXHAUST IT HAS ON IT) POWER THAT IS 4.2 BHP AT 11000, PLUS I GOT IT FOR 398.99 FROM TOWER WITH THE PROMOTION THEY RAN LAST MONTH.

I HAVE WEIGHED ALL COMPONENTS INCLUDING 1/2 TANK FUEL AND CAME OUT AT 12 POUNDS 2 OZ.

THROUGH TONS OF CALCULATIONS HAVE FIGURED THAT I AM OVER 2:1 T:W RATIO WHICH WILL HOVER AND PULL OUT JUST FINE BUT NOT LAUNCH OUT LIKE 3:1.

I ALSO WILL RUN T111 RACE FUEL ALONG WITH SYNTHETIC AT ABOUT 125:1 RATIO. THIS SHOULD GIVE ME A GOOD HEALTHY DOSE OF EXTRA HP!!

WOULD LOVE TO HEAR THOUGHTS ON THIS AND I WILL BE UPDATING ONCE IN THE AIR ALONG WITH SOME PICTURES.


BECAUSE I LOVE POWER!!!!!!!!!AND THE SMELL OF RACE FUEL.
Old 05-07-2005, 07:58 AM
  #118  
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Default RE: 1/4 SCALE CAP 232 FORUM

thanks a bunch, Gremlin

[:-]
Old 05-07-2005, 06:27 PM
  #119  
beausol
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Default RE: 1/4 SCALE CAP 232 FORUM

Guys, I'm in HEAVEN!

I pulled the cowling off again and checked EVERYTHING out. I found that the ignition sensor was turned about 30 degrees, so I straightened it out and adjusted the timing per the mfg.

Then I removed the spark plug and cleaned it (it was BAD). By the way, WHERE can I get one of those spark plugs for a ZDZ 40? Will I be able to find it anywhere but a hobby dealer?

I also cleaned off the piston head, but there is a BUNCH of hard buildup on the top of the piston that won't come off....hopefully that won't be too detrimental...any idea how to remove it?

I also changed to an APC 20x8 prop, since I had it lying around.

Also took out some of the nose weight I had in there, which moved the cg back about 1/2 inch.

Put it all back together and went to the field today.

All of my low end problems are gone. It was running smooth as silk at about 1900 rpm idle and 7000 rpm at high end (I borrowed a guy's tach). I also found out that it weighs right at 15 lbs.

OK, so it's still underpropped (should have a 21x8 or 22x8), so it won't hover, but MAN does it fly SWEET!

Beautiful hammerheads, loops with snaps on top, GORGEOUS spins....man, after 5 turns, I didn't want to stop, it looked so good....slow rotations! Anyway, as I get better, I'll move the cg farther back, and I know a bigger prop will help. I'm thinking of a 21x8 or a 22x6 or so....I'd like to keep the rpm up to around 7000.

Landings were a bit hot....this thing loves to go fast. I slowed it down a lot up at altitude and it didn't exhibit any real bad behavior, and when I'm on base leg in the pattern, it looks like it's going too slow, but when it comes over the end of the runway, it's still hauling and floats like crazy. Hey, that's just technique, and I'll work on that.

Anyway, this plane made me look good today, so it's a keeper. Next is to get the new cowling, wheel pants and canopy and this will be a crowd pleaser!

--Rich
Old 05-07-2005, 07:28 PM
  #120  
thepilot
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Default RE: 1/4 SCALE CAP 232 FORUM

GLAD TO HEAR YOUR GETTING IT LINED OUT. I PERSONNALY WOULD NOT REMOVE THE CARBON BUILDUP ON TOP OF THE PISTON FOR THE FACT THAT IT IS TAKING UP SPACE INSIDE THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER HENCE SMALLER SPACE FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF FUEL HENCE MORE COMPRESSION! HOWEVER IF YOU JUST HAVE TO HAVE IT OFF THEN GET A OLD CROCK POT AND SOME ANTIFREEZE (MAKE SURE GOOD VENTING OR OUTSIDE PREFERABLY) AND COOK IT FOR A WHILE IT WILL LOOSEN RIGHT UP AND COME OFF EASILY. HOPE THIS WILL HELP.



BECAUSE I LOVE POWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AND THE SMELL OF RACE FUEL!
Old 05-08-2005, 05:11 AM
  #121  
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Default RE: 1/4 SCALE CAP 232 FORUM

The crock pot/antfreeze process works well. I've done that in the past.

I started the breakin process on my Moki 2.10, for the Extreme Aircraft Cap. I ran it for 5 minutes at a time, letting it cool down between runs. Even with it running rich, I can tell that it's going to be a powerhouse !!!
Old 05-18-2005, 12:27 PM
  #122  
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Default RE: 1/4 SCALE CAP 232 FORUM

does anyone have a hanger 9 matt chapman 73 inch 1/4 scale cap manual in pdf format. i tried looking for it online but was unable to find it. they have all caps that were made after this one. i would appreciate it if someone could post it here.
Old 05-19-2005, 06:30 AM
  #123  
FenceMagnet
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Default RE: 1/4 SCALE CAP 232 FORUM

attached is han2020-manual.pdf.txt

rename it to han2020-manual.pdf

enjoy....

[:-]

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Old 05-19-2005, 08:34 AM
  #124  
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Default RE: 1/4 SCALE CAP 232 FORUM

thanks a bunch
Old 05-29-2005, 10:09 AM
  #125  
Daryl Martel
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Default RE: 1/4 SCALE CAP 232 FORUM

Last weekend I maidened a H9 1/4 scale CAP 232 . First inverted loop I tried, it snapped unexpectedly on me about 3/4s of the way through the loop (high speed snap!?). Scared the hell out of me as it was very quick and violent. Stalled on final once too. Knowing the "snap happy" reputation CAPs have, I was being quite gentle on the elevator input, and compared to other large planes I've flown, I didn't think I was flying very agressively. I strongly dislike having a plane that's unpredictable and unpleasant to fly. I realise that this could be a C of G and elevator control throw issue - I can move the battery forward, so I can still play with the C of G. Where do you guys have your C of G set at and how much elevator control throw do you have dialed in? I of course didn't get the instruction booklet, and I see H9 no longer sells this ARF - edit... I checked the support section on H9's website - they do still have the manual om-line and I downloaded it and printed it off. Am still interested in other peoples experiences and setup for the H9 27% CAP. Thanks

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