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Help With Wing Bolts

Old 03-04-2007, 11:35 PM
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Rcpilot
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Default Help With Wing Bolts

I'm going to cut into the root of my wing panels and install a hardwood block. Then I'll tap it and epoxy a 1/4--20 nylon stud into the root. I will run a nut and a wing nut froom inside the fuse to secure the wings.

I have a few questions about the location and number of nylon studs to glue into my root.

The root rib is 21" long from LE too TE. The first alignment dowel is 4" back from the LE. The wing tube hole is from 5.5"--7" back from the LE. The hole for my aileron extensions is from 11.25"--11.75" back from the LE. The second alignment dowel is 16" back from the LE. With about 4.5" left behind that dowel to the TE.

From the LE back to the first dowel is not a good spot for a wing bolt because thats all up on top of my landing gear. Under the front part of my hatch and cowl. So, thats out of the question.

I have a nice spot between the back of the tube and the hole for my aileron extensions. There is about 4.5" of space in there for a bolt. There is double ply inside the fuse, so I probably won't need to back it up inside. Just drill the hole and use a nylon washer.

Is one bolt enough?

If one bolt is not enough, then I can add a second bolt in the back of the wing.

I can put a bolt between the rear dowel and that extension hole. It's a good spot, but only 5" from the front bolt. I'd lkike to have my bolts spaced as far apart as possible.

I could probably put a bolt in behind that rear dowel. There is a spot about 4.25" long between the rear dowel and the TE of the wing. I'm afraid that area of the TE might already be solid balsa. I'm not so sure about glueing a nylon stud into balsa. I could overdrill the hole and epoxy a dowel plug in there. Then tap that dowel and epoxy my stud into that, but I'm still relying on a glue joint in balsa to hold this stud in the root of the wing.

Can you guys help me out with this? I'm having SERIOUS problems finishing this ARF because stupid stuff like this drives me crazy wondering if I'm going overkill (2 bolts) and adding too much weight. Then I wonder if I only use ONE bolt--how long before that single nylon stud breaks and wrecks the plane into the pits.

Thanks for any suggestions.
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Old 03-04-2007, 11:42 PM
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Tired Old Man
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Default RE: Help With Wing Bolts

Use one bolt. Why does it have to be nylon? What's wrong with steel? Or aluminum? If you're going to hit somthing with the wing hard enough to break the nylon bolt the rest is history anyway. Same holds true if the nylon bolt breaks in flight. Say good night, right?

To make yourself feel better, and to act as a safety, you an drill a 1/16" hole through one of the locator pins at the inside edge of the fuselage. Inset a "hairpin cotter" through the hole and that will help give you that "locked in" feeling.
Old 03-04-2007, 11:48 PM
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Rcpilot
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Default RE: Help With Wing Bolts

I never thought of using a steel bolt.

Good idea on using a hair thingy to act as a cotter pin on the dowels.

A guy showed me how to do this modification with the nylon bolts. I've done it a couple times now, but always used nylon bolts. I glue it in the wing and then cut the head off. It leaves a 1/4--20 stud sticking out of the wing about 1" . I felt like the nylon wing nut on the nylon bolt was pretty "slip-proof" Never had one come loose in flight so far.

I wonder if I epoxy a metal stud into the wing and use a nylon nut--would it stay put?

Or, what about just put a blind nut in the wing and use a nylon bolt from inside the fuse?
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Old 03-04-2007, 11:49 PM
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Default RE: Help With Wing Bolts

A wing must not need much to hold on i have seen flyers run j-hooks and rubber bands to hold the wings in place on 33-40% birds.
Old 03-04-2007, 11:57 PM
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Tired Old Man
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Default RE: Help With Wing Bolts

Wait until you see the "J" hooks pulled straight, or the wings spread enough to pop the rubber band. Get's ugly.

Set the hardwood block in the wing, drill for a 1/4-20 threaded insert, epoxy in the insert, and use the bolts. Too easy and effective.
Old 03-05-2007, 12:39 AM
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bgold
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Default RE: Help With Wing Bolts

I've had the bolts fall out that held my wing on and the cotter pin Silver is talking about held the wing on just fine, happened more than once. Make sure and install that option
Old 03-05-2007, 04:47 AM
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Default RE: Help With Wing Bolts

Have a look at the QQ Yak's they all use an aluminium pin in the wing with a retaining clip in the fus against a rubber and steel washer, works fine on my 85" and some of the others I have modded to incorporate the same.

Mike
Old 03-05-2007, 07:10 AM
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Default RE: Help With Wing Bolts

I'll second using a neoprene backed washer with metal bolts. These little beauties work very well at keeping metal bolts nice and snug. I used them for cowl screws, wing bolts, stab bolts, etc. Since then I have never had one back out on me.

Microsfasteners sells them for dirt cheap. You can even make your own.
Old 03-05-2007, 09:05 PM
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Rcpilot
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Default RE: Help With Wing Bolts

I'm laying out the holes and lines on my wing roots. Prepairing to cut it open and install the hardwood backer.

Does anyone want me to take pics of this and post the process up here? I'll do it if peolpe want to see it.
Old 03-05-2007, 09:24 PM
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Default RE: Help With Wing Bolts

It could benefit some, so go for it.
Old 03-05-2007, 09:29 PM
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Default RE: Help With Wing Bolts


ORIGINAL: Silversurfer

It could benefit some, so go for it.
Agreed
Old 03-06-2007, 10:53 PM
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GreaTOne_65
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Default RE: Help With Wing Bolts

What I found and worked really well is a 1/4" stud that has wood screw threads on one end and 1/4'-20 threads on the other. I slipped an 1/8" piece of 5 ply plywood inside of the wing rib and screwed the stud into that, I drilled a hole in the threaded side, then I used a 1/4" wingnut & hairpin clip for safety. I agree with the surfer, the use of nylon bolts on these big airplanes is a complete waste of time, all your asking for is a gigantic let down.
Home Depot and Lowes carry these studs.

Dale
Old 03-07-2007, 10:58 AM
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CAPtain232
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Default RE: Help With Wing Bolts

Couple of things to think about before installing STUDS in the root of a wing.

#1
The studs have to run PARALLEL to the wing tube, otherwise you will have to have an elongated hole for the studs to pass through.

#2
It doesn't take a lot to hold the wings up to the fuse side until you start doing some axial manuevers, then centrifugal forces demand more strength. BUT, and this is a big BUT, it does take quite a bit of strength to keep the wings from rotating on the wing tube..... On a large scale plane, I would never use NYLON BOLTS.... just too risky. Even when using wooden anti rotation pins, I have never used them on large scale planes. I have only used them to hold the wing on a trainer airplane and maybe other 40 to 60 size glow planes.


I just wanted to also mention that in reallity, a #6 bolt is probably more than strong enough, a #8 is definitely plenty, but most feel comfortable with a #10. If you can do precision work, make the bolt fit very snug in the hole through the fuse. As far as the wooden backer in the wing root, I use a square hardwood ply, fit a blind nut in the back of it and take a tap and run it through the blind nut and the wooden backer. This way the wood is threaded also.
Old 03-08-2007, 05:54 PM
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Default RE: Help With Wing Bolts

On my QQ Yak I took a 1/4-20 die to the alluminum pins. I then use nylon nuts to hold the wing on, no fumbling with those cotter pins. Over 300 flights and they have never came loose.
Old 03-08-2007, 10:52 PM
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Rcpilot
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Default RE: Help With Wing Bolts

I've started the mods to my wings.

First thing I did was layout where the bolts and hardware was going to penetrate the fuse and ring root.

Then I sliced the covering off with a good exacto.

Now layout the marks where the bolt will go on the rib.

Now layout a square hole around the bolt. My holes are about 1" tall and 2" wide. That lets me slip a nice sized piece of 1/4" hard ply in there. The 1/4" ply is 1.5" x 3"

Now I stick the backer piece inside the hole and layout the bolt marks on it.

Pull the backer piece out and drill a 5/16" hole for your 1/4--20 blind nut. Tap the blind nut in the back. It sticks out a bit, but thats okay.

Now insert the backer piece back in the wing and glue it in.
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Old 03-08-2007, 10:55 PM
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Rcpilot
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Default RE: Help With Wing Bolts

Can't get all the pics in one post. I'm not done yet. I'll post the rest of it this weekend.
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:10 PM
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Default RE: Help With Wing Bolts

You're shop is in the same shape mine's in If you clean it up you'll never find anything...Looks good so far.

In answer to your question in another forum, yes, I'm home.
Old 11-05-2009, 06:16 PM
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Default RE: Help With Wing Bolts

Hiya,

I'm looking to modify my WM extra to use wing bolts in a similar way to what you did. I think yours is the larger extra. Mine is the 60-90 size.

Anyway, instead of cutting such a big hole in the wing root rib, what do you think about the idea of taking a small strip of aluminum, tapping it, and then inserting it through a thin slot into the wing root. I am pretty sure I could poke enough epoxy through the hole to make it stick.

What do you think?
Old 11-22-2009, 09:13 AM
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Default RE: Help With Wing Bolts

I used the anti-rotaion pins from Comp-ARF on my 43% Carden 300. They are aluminum, and I hollowed them out on my drill press to remove more weight. They use Nylon nuts in the fuse to attach. Work great.
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