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Need Programming Help

Old 05-30-2007, 10:37 PM
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Rcpilot
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Default Need Programming Help

I am using a JR8103 TX.

I am using JR7005 low profile coreless servos on each elevator half. One of these servos is factory reversed.

This is a 3D plane, so I have all I can get on high rates with 70% expo. Low rates on elevators are just good for general sport flying and flopping around with 50% expo.

I am using P-Mix 6 to control my elevator servos. Elevator is Master and Gear channel is the slave. The slave servo is the factory reversed servo. Before you ask why I'm using a program to work to elevator servos when one is already factory reversed--It's not reversed perfectly. They move different amounts than each other. Reversed--but not matched to each other in rate of travel. Most of us know that servos travel different amounts in opposite directions. (example: clockwise 60 degrees and counterclockwise 55 degrees.) I'm using the mix to tweak in my elevators and get the right endpoints and center points set.

Here's the problem:
I ran P-Mix 6 so that they both respond to the trim tabs for elevators. I set the mix rate to 100% on both up stick and down stick. Then I went to Gear and used those sub-trims to center up my Reversed servo on the Gear channel. That takes care of the Left side. Went to Elevator chanel and used sub-trims to match that servo to the reversed one. That handles the right one.

Okay, got both servos centered on each other at neutral.
Got my P-Mix rate at 100% up stick and 100% down stick

I taped popsicle sticks to my stabs and checked to see that they are indeed centered up with each other. Good in the center.

Now I pull up elevator with my TX on LOW rates. The Gear/Reversed servo is traveling more. So, I go back to P-Mix 6 and adjust the mix rate so that the Gear/Reversed servo is stopping at the same point as the Elevator servo. Good on up elevator.

Now I push down and the Gear/Reversed servo is moving more. Okay, back to P-Mix 6 and adjust the mix rate for down elevator.

Okay:
Center up at neutral.
Same travel up elevator
Same travel down elevator

GOT IT!!

Flip to High rates. [sm=omg_smile.gif]

Travel is way off again.

I can't set the P-Mix rate on both High rates and Low rates. I think I'm hosed. I'd have to be able to adjust the mix rate on P-Mix 6 on both High and Low rates in order to get matched travel between the elevator halves.

Is there another way to do it? I got Matchboxes, but I'd like to do it with the TX if I can.
Old 05-30-2007, 10:44 PM
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sweetpea01
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Default RE: Need Programming Help

I for one wouldn't use gear as my mix......I'd use Aux 3 and set it up as dual elevators. You can then reverse the servo through your radio or re-reverse it since the servo is already reversed.

As far as getting it exact......you may be stuck using a matchbox....sometimes its the only way
Old 05-30-2007, 11:46 PM
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Default RE: Need Programming Help


ORIGINAL: sweetpea01

I for one wouldn't use gear as my mix......I'd use Aux 3 and set it up as dual elevators. You can then reverse the servo through your radio or re-reverse it since the servo is already reversed.

As far as getting it exact......you may be stuck using a matchbox....sometimes its the only way
It's not that I need to RE--reverse the servo. I DO need it reversed.

I just need them to both travel the same on both high and low rates on this mix and it ain't happenin' right now. []

I'll try using Aux 3, but I think the end result is going to be the same. Can't hurt to try though.

Hate to add a Matchbox to this plane, but it's kinda looking like it might be my only option unless one of you fellas is a jedi master when it comes to programming the 8103.
Old 05-31-2007, 12:26 AM
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Default RE: Need Programming Help

The 8103 had some "minor" inherent issues with some of the programming features. You found one of them.
Old 05-31-2007, 07:26 AM
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Default RE: Need Programming Help

Sounds like it's time to upgrade your TX.

Jim
Old 05-31-2007, 09:29 AM
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Default RE: Need Programming Help

ORIGINAL: Hammbone

Sounds like it's time to upgrade your TX.

Jim
[X(]

Don't say that Jim. You're killing me. I can't upgrade unless they come out with a Spektrum 9ch or 12ch system. The current crop of Spektrum is only 7ch and it's just not enough ports in the RX to fly these big planes.

I refuse to buy another 72mhz system. I fly at a field with some really weird interference issues. You can't use a JR RX at this field. Not under any circumstances. Unless, your just TRYING to destroy a plane. I think Mike Hurley was using the JR RX's, but he was buying the $200 dual conversion units. Any of the ABC&W single conversion units WILL absolutely crash your airplane. I can't see myself buying a bunch of those $200 RX's from JR. I'm just not that wealthy.

Do you guys think Matchboxes will do the trick? I hate to do it--but I've probably got 20 of them lying around. Might as well use it--if it will do the job.

I was holding out for the X-Link, but he's had so many problems getting it on the market--now I'm gun shy. I heard a rumor that some of the guys in Vegas (Cirkus Throwdown) had issues with the X-Link modules on JR radios. So, now I'm REALLY gun shy about using it.

One of the fellas at the field is using an X-link on a Futaba TX. He's getting hits and lock-outs on his 100CC composite plane. I think he's getting a little gun shy too.

Thanks
Old 05-31-2007, 09:40 AM
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Default RE: Need Programming Help

I'm gun shy about all the 2.4 Ghz stuff. I've been hearing of way too many people having problems with it.
Maybe you should consider upgrading to a Futaba TX on 72 Mhz, which you can get a 2.4 Ghz module for on down the road if you want.
I just did that, but it will be a year or more before I even consider 2.4 Ghz.

You planning on coming to the Big Bird this year? Maybe we can finally meet.


Jim
Old 05-31-2007, 10:03 AM
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Default RE: Need Programming Help

Of course!! I always go to the Loveland event.

Maybe I'll have my 30% Extra done by then. I've only been working on that ARF for a year now. []

A lot of the guys at our field did switch to Futaba when we started having JR RX problems. They seam to be doing alright now.

I'm switching to my Aux channels right now and will try that. I think these servos have the little adjustment screw on the pots. If you remove the horn screw--you can see a tiny screw down inside that can be used to mechanically center the servo. I just talked to a friend and he told me to get all my subtrims to ZERO. He said that will help my mix. I need to check those servos and see if they are mechanically adjustable.

My elevator linkages are within microns of each other. Same length on both sides.

If I can adjust the pots manually and get my servos centered at neutral--maybe this will work.

Fingers crossed. [sm=tongue_smile.gif]
Old 05-31-2007, 02:03 PM
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Default RE: Need Programming Help

Matchbox.
Old 05-31-2007, 07:25 PM
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Default RE: Need Programming Help

Well, after a frustrating day of programming and mixing and a few choice words--I'm going to have to do it with a Matchbox. Oh well, at least I have them and don't have to spend any $$ to make the plane work right.

Thanks for the help.
Old 06-01-2007, 09:03 AM
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balsafire
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Default RE: Need Programming Help

Hey pilet.
I feal your pain. I have the spectrum DX-7 system and have the same problem with dual elevators. I've tried p-mix 5 & 6, following the instructions to the letter. I can get the endpoints close(nowhere near perfect) but the speed is WAY off. Let me know how the match box works and if so what your tx settings end up being. Yeah, I'm a bit nervous every time I go flying with the Spektrum. I've been reading about the issues as well. There are about 8 guys at our field using it and so far no issues. All of my rx packs are at least 6v, 2000 mils so we'll see. Every once in a while(about 1 in 10) when I switch on the plane with the tx already on I get nothing. turn both off, then back on and it's fine. My mind set is this: If I lose a plane to a failure I can definately balme on the radio I'll switch back to crystals. There was a thread for some time on this issue and the moderator, a J.R. employee(no names) locked it. That is when I really got nervous[].

Anyway, please let me know how you make out on your set up.
Thanks,
Rod
Old 06-01-2007, 12:10 PM
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Default RE: Need Programming Help

One of the fellas at the field is using an X-link on a Futaba TX. He's getting hits and lock-outs on his 100CC composite plane. I think he's getting a little gun shy too.

Thanks

< Message edited by Rcpilet -- 5/31/2007 8:31:26 AM >

_____________________________

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I'm NOT getting hits or LOCKED out with the Xtreme Link. It is a Tx problem!!!!!!!!!! I hate when people can't get a story right. And starts these kind of B.S. RUMORS .

Greg
Old 06-01-2007, 03:47 PM
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Rcpilot
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Default RE: Need Programming Help

ORINAL: Roadster

ORIGINAL: Rcpilet

One of the fellas at the field is using an X-link on a Futaba TX. He's getting hits and lock-outs on his 100CC composite plane. I think he's getting a little gun shy too.

Thanks
I'm NOT getting hits or LOCKED out with the Xtreme Link. It is a Tx problem!!!!!!!!!! I hate when people can't get a story right. And starts these kind of B.S. RUMORS .

Greg

Greg:
You don't have to be upset about it.

You and I talked briefly a couple weeks ago and you told me you had been locked out a couple times that morning. I asked you if you were using X-link and you said that you were indeed using it on a Futaba TX.

I'm not trying to start rumors. I made the assumption that you were having X-link problems. You did not indicate that your problems were TX related.

All you need to do is clarify. I didn't get the story right, because we didn't talk long enough. You were prepping to take off and I didn't want to stand there and talk--because I knew you wanted to taxi out and fly. I know you guys are nervous when your flying those big planes--the last thing you want is 20 questions while your in the taxi lane waiting to take off.

Have you gotten your problems straightened out yet? What TX is it? Are you planing to send the TX back? Whats your plan of action? Are you still getting hits or lockouts? Will you post back and tell us what you did to fix the problem?

I want to fly 2.4ghz too, but I'm worried that the technology isn't quite bulletproof yet. We're all in the same boat out at the field. I have gas airplanes too. You guys just don't see them because I can't afford to loose them due to a radio hit or a lockout. I'm waiting to see if anyone can come up with a safer system. It's dangerous at our field. We all know that. I just hope nobody gets hurt. Thats my biggest fear. The airplanes are replaceable. It sucks--they cost $3000+. But, I just don't want to hurt someone.
Old 06-01-2007, 07:07 PM
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Default RE: Need Programming Help

Chris... I never used the words "locked out" or "hits" when you ask me about Xtreme Link. You shouldn't make assumption, and then publicly talk about it. Talk about what " you know" not what "you think you know". You could be doing more damage than you realize. All I did in my statement was clarify what you said.
Nervous when I take off, another assumption.
Did you know Hurley is fling Xtreme Link in his J R at Arvada?
What's bullet proof? You are waiting for a "safer system"-- "It's dangerous at our field" What the heck is that all about?
You took part in a RUMOR about Chip Hyde a month ago, I let that one ride. Chip is a good friend of mine, you got that one wrong also. So when I heard that you were talking about me, I had to chime in and clearify what you "think" I said.

All I saying Chis is be more careful of what you are willing to repeat. And I would perfer that you leave me out of your B.S. sessions.

Later,
Greg
P.S. I'm not upset...
Old 06-01-2007, 10:51 PM
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Rcpilot
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Default RE: Need Programming Help

You brought yourself into this Greg. I never mentioned your name or alluded to you in any way.

You DID say you'd been hit and had a "couple PCM lockouts"

Nevermind. You and your snooty gas buddies are too good to talk to anyone at the field. You guys sit over in your corner and talk to nobody. The only time any of you have anything to say is when your intimidating other less experienced club members to stay grounded while you fly alone. You guys are so errogant--it's sickening. People are constantly complaining to the membership board about you guys and your attitudes at the field. Did you get the newsletter yet? Big article about attitudes on the front page.

The only time you and your buddies have anything to say on RCU is when you think you can trap me or make me look bad on this forum. Your buddy Mike (FZR1000 and other username M_Gruenwald) tried messing with me a couple weeks ago and the admins here took care of him for registering under 3 different usernames. Thats against site rules, but he registered under 3 different usernames to try and cause me problems on this internet site. Thats pathetic. He can't man up and talk to me at the field in person. He tries to hide behind his computer. And he's not even smart enough to register with different email addesses.

You still haven't said weather or not you ever got the problem figured out. I don't expect you will either. You guys are all the same. You got time to come on this site and screw with me over a RUMOR at the field from your buddy Al--but not ONE of you will come up to me like a MAN and ask to hear my side of the story. You take AL at his word and think I'm a scumbag. You don't even know me. You've made your decision not to like me based on RUMOR. A RUMOR from a bitter and angry old man. You haven't ever bothered to actually strike up a conversation with me. You haven't ever bothered to talk to me, like a person.

It's easier to pop off on the internet where you get to be anonimous to the rest of the world.

But, you see fit to try and embarrass me on a public forum. You have time to write that drivvel--but you got no time to help out the rest of the modeling community by telling people what caused your problems last weekend. You could be a good modeler and tell everyone what exactly happend with your X-link and your TX--maybe that would help someone else out. Someone outside of your little circle of friends. But, instead--you choose to come on here and try to make me look foolish?

That right there shows the type of person you REALLY are.



Old 06-02-2007, 05:53 AM
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Default RE: Need Programming Help

Did the matchbox fix your problems? I'm realy interested to know as I'm having the same problem with my Bling 3D!!
Old 06-02-2007, 07:09 AM
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Thanks Greg. Nice change to a productive subject. WOW!!!
Old 06-02-2007, 09:26 AM
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Default RE: Need Programming Help

I was up late last night and installed the Matchbox.

I'm happy to report that I have matched elevators in the center and at both end points. It works perfectly on both Low and High rates.

I'm going to fly the plane this morning and see how it performs. I did a couple walls and a few waterfalls yesterday evening after work. That was with the elevators still mixed in the TX and not perfectly matched at the end points. It's hard to tell the elevators weren't matched perfect when your doing such violent maneuvers. But, while doing IMAC type flying, I could TOTALLY tell that it was corkscrewing off in one direction.

I'll report back after a day of flying.
Old 06-02-2007, 08:25 PM
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I'm glad to here the matchbox worked. I'm going to put one in mine later today. I hope it solves my problem too.
Old 06-02-2007, 09:03 PM
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sweetpea01
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Default RE: Need Programming Help

Your other option was to get the power expander EQ10.

Built in matchboxes.

Or if you were flying XPS you can map one of the channels right to the elevator so the feed would be the same

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