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H9 35% Extra 260 Loose Stab ??

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H9 35% Extra 260 Loose Stab ??

Old 10-20-2007, 05:58 PM
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AAbdu
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Default H9 35% Extra 260 Loose Stab ??

I was running my engine this evening in preparation for the maiden flight of my 35% Hangar Nine Extra 260 tomorrow. I was doing a wolk around when I noticed that the Horizontal stab seemed to be shaking a LOT. When I grab one side and wiggle it I can see a little daylight between the stab and the rear of the fuselage. In fact, you can wiggle the entire stab up and down when it is affixed to the fuselage. Is that normal for this plane? Should I be concerned (I already am)? What is a good fix for this condition short of epoxying the thing on and forever losing access to the elevator servos?

The stab was installed according to the instructions with the single bolt through the tab on the stabs into the rear fuselage blind nut, and the screw into the cabon fiber rod.

Thanks in advance
Anthony
Old 10-21-2007, 01:11 AM
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Airbike
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Default RE: H9 35% Extra 260 Loose Stab ??

Just a note. I don't know if this is the case or not for you but, ALWAYS run the engine with the wings on the plane. The entire structure is needed to absorb the engine vibration.

I only had unusual vibrations due to loose engine mounting bolts (check those if the engine seems to shake a lot).
Old 10-21-2007, 10:35 AM
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altavillan
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Default RE: H9 35% Extra 260 Loose Stab ??

I always wind up glueing the CF rod that the stabs mount on solid to the fuse. It doesn't take many flights to loosen them up. Since it will never have to fit in anything that small anyway it's not a problem.

Use little shims of balsa to align the CF rod to the wings before glueing. Go to Tower Hobbies and look up a kit's instruction booklet to learn how to alling a stab.
Old 10-21-2007, 05:07 PM
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bodywerks
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Default RE: H9 35% Extra 260 Loose Stab ??

I know what you are talking about, and mine has the exact same thing. The whole design back there is shady - lightweight, but shady. Rock-solid would have been an incidence alignment dowel instead of relying on a screw, and two hold-down tabs instead of just the one, and no friggin' screw through the stab tube! I have almost an inch of wiggle at the tip of each stab. And yes, the bolts are all tight. Back in the old days, when people still used a screw through the stab tube to secure the stab in place, this kind of play was acceptable. Nowadays, I beg to differ. I have not yet permanently glued my stabs in place, but I am planning to.
Old 10-21-2007, 07:31 PM
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Default RE: H9 35% Extra 260 Loose Stab ??

Okay...the world as we know it has ended. Bodywerks is asking for more weight in a kit...yikes! I started a thread sometime ago that talked about sacrificing strength for weight in the deisgn and engineering of some of these new kits...There has to be a trade off point with everything and in some cases, possibly this one as an example we may be reaching that threshold! Yes lighter flies better, however stronger lasts longer!
Old 10-21-2007, 09:31 PM
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Default RE: H9 35% Extra 260 Loose Stab ??

Would it be wise to install some X bracing in strategic places inside the fuse to stiffen it up some? Just wandering.
Old 10-22-2007, 11:05 AM
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Default RE: H9 35% Extra 260 Loose Stab ??

Yes, that is an option for the fuse twist, as the fuse currently has no diagonal cross bracing in it. But this will not stiffen the stab up.
One thing did come to mind, though. Quique recommends that the stab tube be glued in to the fuse. I bet that alone would help here.
Old 10-22-2007, 12:00 PM
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Default RE: H9 35% Extra 260 Loose Stab ??

Best and very easy solution for this on any model is brush in a light coat of finishing resin in the stab tube socket in the fuse. They are a little loose fit from time to time and this fixes it right up.
Old 10-22-2007, 02:02 PM
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AAbdu
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Default RE: H9 35% Extra 260 Loose Stab ??

I bit the bullet and used some 30 minute epoxy on the stab tube to get rid of the slop. It sees to have worked as there is significantly less play. What I really wanted to do was re-engineer how the stab servos mount so that I could permanently mount the horizontal stabilizers to the fuse. I was kind of in a hurry as I wanted to do the maiden yesterday. As it turned out I still did not get a chance to maiden it. That stinks because the weather is very iffy in Ohio this time of year. I may not get a chance to maiden it until spring of 08.
Even with the play are the stabs safe? Is there a significant failure risk or is the slop more of an annoyance? Any wing or stab failures so far?

This plane better fly balls out as I am not particularly impressed with it right now. This is my first gasser and it can not compare with my pattern planes as far as quality is concerned. I know that is an apples to oranges comparison but $1000 bucks is $1000 bucks and there is no reason not to expect quality. For example; I was checking the C of G and as a matter of practice did the final check by picking the plane up at the wingtips (me and my wife that is). The wing seemed like it could barely be support the weight of the plane. It made all kind of cracking noises like it was going to fold any second. Shouldn't that wing be able to take three or four times the weight of the plane at least? I am not saying it can't, it just seems very weak. The horizontal stab is the same way. I am scared to even touch it.

Oh yeah, yesterday was the first time I have had it out in the sun light. It absolutely looks much better in my basement than it does at the field. The wrinkles that I got out with the heat gun seemed to have found their way back. It looks like my new pride and joy gasser is on the fast track to being a beater.

Thanks
Anthony
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Old 10-22-2007, 02:04 PM
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Default RE: H9 35% Extra 260 Loose Stab ??

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I'm from the ARF generation...

By finishing resin, do you mean epoxy thinned with alcohol, or is finishing resin a product unto itself???

Old 10-22-2007, 02:44 PM
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Default RE: H9 35% Extra 260 Loose Stab ??

Either thinned epoxy or something like Z-Poxy finishing resin works fine.
Old 10-22-2007, 03:02 PM
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Default RE: H9 35% Extra 260 Loose Stab ??

Great advice Mike despite the negativeness one brought into this thread.
Old 10-22-2007, 03:03 PM
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Default RE: H9 35% Extra 260 Loose Stab ??

We just maiden one today that a buddy of mine won at the NC IMAC championships. (Thanks Horizon Hobby`s) And it is one great flying plane. I think it might even fly as good as my 35% 330 carden..
Old 10-22-2007, 03:32 PM
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Default RE: H9 35% Extra 260 Loose Stab ??

Even with the play are the stabs safe? Is there a significant failure risk or is the slop more of an annoyance? Any wing or stab failures so far?
I have not had a problem, overall, with the stabs. the looseness, and the twist in the fuse is more of an annoyance. I don't think you will have to worry about the stabs failing.
As for the wings, take a look inside before putting the wings on every day and after taking them off, particularly the first 4-5 ribs. Make sure the glue joints are solid and that the ribs aren't cracked. Also make sure there is plenty of glue on all the shear webs (ply and balsa) around the wing tube. Also take note of the LE sheeting quality. If it is soft, styrofoam-like junk, wick some thin CA into it to stiffen it up a bit. This kind of inspection/maintenance may prevent a wing failure - on any ARF.
Old 10-22-2007, 03:34 PM
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Default RE: H9 35% Extra 260 Loose Stab ??

I flew one of the H9 Extra 260's yesterday morning... The owner is a relatively new pilot to gas, so he asked me to fly the airplane and give him my impressions... Within the first minute, I knew I was going to buy one... This is after vowing to myself that I wouldn't build another 35% airplane and stick with 40%+... Went to the LHS today at lunch and picked one up... Going to stuff it with a 3W 106 QS and all Hitec digis... Will use an AR7000 for guidance...

Has anyone put 2 rudder servos in the tail??? I have several HS5955TG's... I really don't want to have to purchase a DS8711 for the rudder...

Great job Mike & H9...

Old 10-22-2007, 03:39 PM
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Default RE: H9 35% Extra 260 Loose Stab ??

I have one 8611A in the tail for the rudder, and I have no problems with that set up.
Old 10-22-2007, 04:21 PM
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Default RE: H9 35% Extra 260 Loose Stab ??

You'll want two servos if you're running 5955's, since they don't produce their rated torque. CG shouldn't be a problem, and weight definitely won't.
Old 10-22-2007, 04:28 PM
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Default RE: H9 35% Extra 260 Loose Stab ??


ORIGINAL: bodywerks

You'll want two servos if you're running 5955's, since they don't produce their rated torque. CG shouldn't be a problem, and weight definitely won't.
Just wondering where is the source of this information?? I would like to read the spec's where this came from...Thanks, Buzz
Old 10-22-2007, 04:37 PM
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Default RE: H9 35% Extra 260 Loose Stab ??

This is from the Troy Built Models website. Don't blame me, I am only the messenger....

TBM SERVO ENDURANCE TESTING: TBM conducted its own servo endurance testing using the equipment shown above. We found that the first 1/10 of a second that the servo is used that the torque is at its maximum. The performance then degraded substantially over the next 60 seconds (of intermittent use), and stayed at that lower value for the duration of the testing. For instance the JR-8711 has an initial torque of 358 oz-in, and after 60 seconds (of intermittent use) the case heats up to 120 deg F and the torque drops off to only 280 oz-in! This is a decrease of over 20%. I regret to report that the Hitec HS-5955 lost 40% of its torque by dropping from 248 oz-in to just 152 oz-in in about 60 seconds (of intermittent use). To define intermittent use: I did not simply stall the servo for 60 seconds to see what would happen. I operated the servo as if I was performing knife edge passes along the flightline and knife edge loops, so the servo was cycled on an off and was stalled for no more than 8 seconds at a time.

JR-8711 vs Hitec HS-5955 in actual use. This test started with using one HS-5955 servo in my 35% Extra 260. I had just enough rudder power to perform a knife edge loop. However I noticed that the rudder lost power later on in the flight. Apparently this was due to the servo heating up and losing power. I added a second HS-5955 servo and the difference was tremendous. Rudder authority was like a foamy plane. I then switched to one JR-8711, and there was no detectable change to the rudder authority compared to the two Hitec HS-5955 servos. This confirms that the above test results of 152 oz-in vs 280 oz in is realistic and usable.

Old 10-22-2007, 04:42 PM
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Default RE: H9 35% Extra 260 Loose Stab ??

http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/servo_testing.htm
and
http://servotestsite.com/page5.html
Old 10-22-2007, 09:28 PM
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Default RE: H9 35% Extra 260 Loose Stab ??


That pretty well sum's that all up, Thanks Buzz
Old 10-23-2007, 01:38 PM
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Default RE: H9 35% Extra 260 Loose Stab ??

I have two 200/oz inch Airtronics mg servos on the rudder. I suspect that will be enough. I use rudder a lot and didn't want any funny business.

I hope the plane flies as well as advertised. I suppose there is no reason it won't. I just want to get the maiden done. I hate maiden flights.

Anthony
Old 10-23-2007, 07:25 PM
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Default RE: H9 35% Extra 260 Loose Stab ??

Do you want me to come down and do it???
Old 10-24-2007, 09:57 AM
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Default RE: H9 35% Extra 260 Loose Stab ??

Rich,
That is a scary thought!
Old 10-24-2007, 10:03 AM
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Default RE: H9 35% Extra 260 Loose Stab ??

Doesn't scare me at all! Not my plane.....

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