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So...WHY Giant Scale?

Old 04-14-2003, 05:27 PM
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woodscra
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Default So...WHY Giant Scale?

I am curious to hear from all those that fly 33% and larger models why they choose Giant Scale?
The cost of putting together a 33% plane is around $4500. A 27% is much cheaper and gas is still an option, and you can get a 2-1 power ratio.

Is it just the WOW factor....
Are you an IMAC flyer and it flies more true....
Because they are less affected by wind...

Whatever the reason, I am just interested in your thoughts.

Thanks
Craig
Old 04-14-2003, 05:47 PM
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Flyfalcons
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Default So...WHY Giant Scale?

Where did you get the $4500 figure? You can build a 33% for a lot less than that. I just flew my new H9 Extra and there is a difference in performance versus my 27% Midwest Extra. It tracks better overall, you can fly it further out to take advantage of the aerobatic box, and you can't deny the wow factor. Cost to set up is much less than $4500. I bet you could build a Fiberclassics 2.6 with a DA 100 for less than that.
Old 04-14-2003, 06:23 PM
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woodscra
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Default So...WHY Giant Scale?

Thanks for the response. I figured starting from scratch and every single little detail required to build a plane, from all the screws and wood, electronics and such.

A current $1300 composite plane and DA 100 with mufflers, not cannisters will cost you $2600 and that does not include shipping.
With 9 servos, all new, and not HIitec, then you add another $800. That is $3400. Only $1100 left to go for RX, batteries, servo arms, extensions, pushrods, tail wheel, prop, spinner, wheels, fuel tank, switches, and don't forget the shipping on any online parts, and the plane and engine. It is really easy.
Old 04-14-2003, 06:32 PM
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Flyfalcons
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Default So...WHY Giant Scale?

Okay, but you're talking about a 35% fiberglass plane. Let's look at a typical H9 plane, which is a popular way to get into 33% aircraft:

Plane + harware = 900
ZDZ80 = 650 (?ish)
9 new servos can run you around 800 if you don't shop around. Even less if you do shop around. We'll call it 700 worth of new servos as most people building a 33% usually has a couple extra servos laying around.
Receiver, battery, switch = 150 (real world figure from my plane)
Servo extensions = 50 if you shop around (Batteries America, etc)
Prop and spinner = 80

So there's $1830 to set up a new 33% Sukhoi. Beyond that if you want to run lithiums, fiber optic wire and switches, digital servo on the throttle, 100cc engine, multiple matchboxes etc then it can add up. However, if you want a great flying 33% aircraft then you can do it for under two grand, and in my opinion if you feel ready for it then you can put the money together to get the plane in the air.
Old 04-14-2003, 07:39 PM
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greenboot
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Default So...WHY Giant Scale?

I decided on the GP Extra 330 over the Midwest 80" kit. The kit cost was only about $50 more. The ZDZ engine was $615 which isn't much more than a good 3.2. I'll be using single Hitec aileron servos so the only additional expense is the bigger rudder servo needed. My total outlay ($1500) is only a few hundred more than the smaller plane. Like Ryan said, I had some of the stuff lying around.

I was afraid if I built a 27%, I would forever want a bigger one. Well now I'll have it.

Tom

PS: all financial information above is strictly confidential (if you know what I mean).
Old 04-14-2003, 08:20 PM
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Default So...WHY Giant Scale?

WOW :surprised
Old 04-14-2003, 09:47 PM
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Default So...WHY Giant Scale?

Originally posted by Flyfalcons
Okay, but you're talking about a 35% fiberglass plane. Let's look at a typical H9 plane, which is a popular way to get into 33% aircraft:

Plane + harware = 900
ZDZ80 = 650 (?ish)
9 new servos can run you around 800 if you don't shop around. Even less if you do shop around. We'll call it 700 worth of new servos as most people building a 33% usually has a couple extra servos laying around.
Receiver, battery, switch = 150 (real world figure from my plane)
Servo extensions = 50 if you shop around (Batteries America, etc)
Prop and spinner = 80

So there's $1830 to set up a new 33% Sukhoi. Beyond that if you want to run lithiums, fiber optic wire and switches, digital servo on the throttle, 100cc engine, multiple matchboxes etc then it can add up. However, if you want a great flying 33% aircraft then you can do it for under two grand, and in my opinion if you feel ready for it then you can put the money together to get the plane in the air.
Your math doesn't add up. Looks like you forgot to include the $700 worth of servos you talked about. Your total should have been $2,530. However, I like the way you let it slip through and think I'll try this on my wife next time I need a plane...
Old 04-14-2003, 10:29 PM
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woodscra
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Default So...WHY Giant Scale?

Thanks to all who have responded.

You did not mention tax or shipping for any items.
You did not mention what hardware you purchased to get to 900, but I can't imagine it was very much.
You put a mighty low price on the RX, must have been a hitec, or low channel JR. But you like Futaba or JR, then the price will be higher.

You probably did not choose H9 titanium links.
A Menz prop is $50, a carbon prop is $90. A tru turn spinner is $100, a Pete models carbon is around $65 or so. None of this includes tax or shipping.

There are a multitude of options in every category, you can buy a carden and build it, if you have the skill, or have someone else do it for $1000+.

It depends on the quality in some cases, and shopping around in others.

$2000 would not be the average price for a 33%, but neither would be $4500. Somewhere in the middle probably, in all honesty.

But ultimately, it is what YOU feel comfortable flying, and hardware you personally trust. Not just a matter for doing it for the lowest possible price bargain shopping for every item.

I don't think you counted every single piece of covering, wood, and screw that went into it, servo horn, pull-pull setup, control horns, wheels, tail wheel, hinges, glue, and etc. I was trying to include everything possibly needed to make it fly.

I think it is great to have all these responses, however, I do not see anyone else commenting on the the MAIN question the thread was titled for. All of this is good info, but the topic is not price comparison.

Thanks
Craig
Old 04-14-2003, 11:56 PM
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shill
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Default So...WHY Giant Scale?

To answer your question The bigger airplanes fly better I do not care what anybody tells you if you have a good flying 35% size airplane then it will fly even better at 40% that is about as honest as it gets. I have never flown a 30% or smaller airplane that flys as good as a bigger one. That is the reason I like flying the big airplanes but I still fly profiles as I can make the wow factor and pucker factor a little higher with them. As to cost yes it is expensive and as you said you can pick and choose what you want to use to control the cost. You said 1300 for the airframe they sell the basic one for 990.00 and I keep hearing shipping is only 89.00 or something around there. you have the airframe under 1100.00 not 1300.00 and it can be trimmed out with sign vinyl for 50.00 or so that is hand cutting your own designs from the Vinyl. As to radio equipment we use hitec 5945 servos and hitec supreme recievers in all of the 35 and 40% planes we have. I have yet to see that futaba recievers or JR are any better but we are using the Futaba 9Z wc2 TX. Lastly if you can not afford to crash you should not be flying it I have seen this first hand Guy had a 35% airplane crashed it and did not know what he was going to do he did not have the money to replace it, but the flip side is if you have one flying you better start saving to get another one started because if it flys it will eventuall crash and remember it is sticks and glue and fiberglass or might be all composite and you can fix a FC airplane dont ask me how I know but they can be easy to fix depending on the damage.




Steve Hill
Old 04-14-2003, 11:57 PM
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Bob Pastorello
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Default So...WHY Giant Scale?

Craig, et al....as a relative newcomer to gas (only 2 seasons, really), I'll share my take on the issue.

Started with 29% AW Edge, then a DP Extra 27%, then a GP Pitts, 33%, now a GP PW Extra 27%, and the Wildhare Giles 202 35%.

After much comparing....for me....the fact is the bigger (and VERY little more expensive) Giles is the better performer. Visual presentation, much more solid "feel", and slower speed, combined with what I perceive to be more predictable response, adds up to "bigger is better".

I can't say if 40% anything would be better; I'm limited by shop and van to a 97" wing, so I won't know.

But the Wildhare DEFINITELY has the edge in solid feel, handling, and stable, predictable performance.
Old 04-15-2003, 12:00 AM
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Flyfalcons
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Default So...WHY Giant Scale?

Originally posted by Fixed Wing
Your math doesn't add up. Looks like you forgot to include the $700 worth of servos you talked about. Your total should have been $2,530. However, I like the way you let it slip through and think I'll try this on my wife next time I need a plane...
Oops! There's my education at work . Yes, 2500 or so is much more accurate. Maybe I can work as an accountant at Enron.
Old 04-15-2003, 12:07 AM
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Flyfalcons
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Default So...WHY Giant Scale?

Craig, I got 900 from a kit and the H9 Hardware kit. I purchased a high quality Futaba 8 channel PCM receiver for 100 dollars plus 15 or so for a crystal. The battery was purchased at Batteries America for a much lower price than you will find at other place. Shipping is free because I shopped around. No tax on an internet purchase. It would be a good idea to shop around because you'll actually save money, and it will add up in the long run. And I did answer your question in your original post, but saying 33% aircraft will set you back 4500 dollars is a gross overestimate and that statement needs to be addressed. I certainly do not consider myself a cheapskate, but I was careful when shopping and now I am enjoying a 33% aircraft for less than one might think. Hopefully you won't disregard these tips when setting up your aircraft.
Old 04-15-2003, 12:17 AM
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phazernut
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Default So...WHY Giant Scale?

Here in Canada you won't be far from 4500.00 for a good set up.

Dam Canadian Dollar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old 04-15-2003, 12:54 AM
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Carroll-RCU
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Default 33% Price!

Aeroworks Extra 330L kit plus shipping........................$800.00
Spinner........................................... ..............................$100.00
Menz prop.............................................. .......................$50.00
Covering.......................................... .............................$100.00
Glues............................................. ...............................$40.00
Gas Tank.............................................. ........................$10.00
Servo arms Hanger 9 brand.........................................$45. 00
JR 8411 x 4................................................. ..................$400.00
JR 4721 x4................................................ ....................$300.00
Control horns .................................................. .............$20.00
3W 100 w/mufflers.......................................... ..............$1250.00
Paint............................................. .................................$60.00
Dual rudder servo tray.............................................. .....$59.00
Vinyl lettering......................................... ........................$60.00
Batteries......................................... ...............................$75.00
JR switches x 3................................................. ..............$45.00
Total............................................. ..............................$3,414.00

This price does not include wheels, screws, fuel line and filter, sand paper.

How do you build a 33% plane for $2500.00?
Old 04-15-2003, 01:13 AM
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Flyfalcons
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Default So...WHY Giant Scale?

You can start by substituting the 3W100 for a ZDZ80. Then go ahead and subtract the covering (you can get an ARF for 800), cut the glue to 10 bucks (ARF again), cut the paint (ARF), cut the dual servo tray (Not needed in H9 ARFs), cut the vinyl lettering as a nicety. Also, get a Dave Brown spinner for 55 instead of 100 (unless you have to say you have a True Turn spinner). Might not be 1000 dollars worth of savings there but should be close to 500 dollars in savings at the engine alone.
Old 04-15-2003, 01:19 AM
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Default ZDZ 80 and 33% plane?

I see your point Flyfalcon, but the 80 on 33% is questionable.
Not to say the 80 wouldn't fly it. But for 3-D?
Either way I am not building another plane with this much $ in it until I get a raise!
Cheers,
Carroll
Old 04-15-2003, 01:22 AM
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Flyfalcons
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Default So...WHY Giant Scale?

Yep, 3D. Look at Wgeffon's H9 Cap. JohnVH's Sukhoi flies great 3D with the 80. Certainly not questionable power. Yes a 100cc twin would be nicer but the ZDZ does its job and for far less money than the 100cc twins as well.
Old 04-15-2003, 01:26 AM
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EJB
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Default ZDZ 80 ? you bet!

I have seen so many ZDZ 80 singles on 30-33% planes @ 23-28lb. that I have lost count.3D ? no problem.
Old 04-15-2003, 01:38 AM
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Default So...WHY Giant Scale?

A ZDZ80 on a 23 to 28 pound airplane on a 23 it would be alright but you get over that and I do not think that the performance is there. That could also be lack of a good pilot on my part. I have seen a zdz 80 on a 20pound 8 ounce 35% airplane and it is great. I should have a 35% extra 260 at Joe Nall that will be under 20 pounds with a zdz 80 in it. I think some people over exagerate the power of the ZDZ and especially the RPM numbers as I have one and have yet to see some of the numbers people claim unless they all got exceptional motors. Dont get me wrong it is a good motor but I do not think it is up to flying an airplane with the authority some people say at weight of 24 pounds and up. this is all my take on it. But you want to cut the cost down buy a columbo anderson 34% extra that saves some more money do a little lightening work and should have a good airplane for a ZDZ 80. All of this could just be pilot related though but is my observances.


Steve Hill
Old 04-15-2003, 01:03 PM
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Default Have you considered scratch

Craig,

I am building the Hurley Extra 300. It is 35%. The basic airframe cost me about $75. $50 in wood (from Loan Star) and $25 in foam blanks (from Home Depot). Try to beat this price with a arf. Granted you still have to buy the landing gear and wing tubes. So figure $100 for those metal items (from TNT) However, I am still way under what some of these companies want. Since this is the case I am building 2 at a time. (This is a nice feature by doing it this way, it really does not cost that much more to build more than one at a time.) Also, if I crash part of the airplane the replacement is not going to cost much at all. I am in the same boat, I wanted a giant scale airplane however, did not unlimited funds. In the January issue of Model Aviation they released the first installment of six on this airplane. It has been an easy build. This airplane is also set up for a DA-100. However, you could use anything that is at least 100cc and up. I am also going to be using Hitec receivers. I sent my Futaba receivers and a Hitec to my cousin who is a radio engineer for US Air. To make a long story short, he told me that the equipment told him that I would get 4 times the range with the Hitec! Now all the flyers that work for US Air in his area are using Hitec. When you get into a project of this size you also don't want to compromise cost for safety. I hope this helps. If you need further info I would be glad to help. Thanks

–Spencer
Old 04-15-2003, 01:43 PM
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greenboot
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Default So...WHY Giant Scale?

I'll go back to your original question which indeed didn't directly concern cost.

I wanted something big because lots of other guys had big planes. You just can't watch those giants without wanting one. And I didn't want a medium size because that just wouldn't satisfy. I don't fly contests so it doesn't matter if it flies truer.

There are also reasons why smaller planes are preferred; they are quicker and easier to transport, store, and setup. Also you avoid the stink and danger of carrying gasoline.

Tom
Old 04-15-2003, 02:11 PM
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woodscra
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Default So...WHY Giant Scale?

Thank you everyone for your responses, this is all useful, helpful information.

Spencer, that is by far the cheapest way to build and get a giant scale. However, my skills and patience would never allow me to imagine such a project.

I too saw big planes and wanted to have one. I admit, they are much more difficult to transport without a trailer, and the smell of gas is no pleasure. But they do fly better, IMO, are more stable, float well, much more stable at slow speed, certainly more WOW especially when low, sound cool, and fly very solid, and are a lot easier to see, especially on those long vertical climbs.

Craig
Old 04-15-2003, 03:04 PM
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JohnVH
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Default So...WHY Giant Scale?

I put together my H9 Sukhoi for about $2500ish.

On my website below is a vid of my 25# or so sukhoi with the zdz80. Im not good at all manuevers yet, and a big twin has some more power, but its not a nessesity.

Check out Waynes cap vids, thats proof enough!
Old 04-15-2003, 04:29 PM
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Default So...WHY Giant Scale?

Why Giant Scale???? For me, there is no question that bigger flies better. I've flown 25%, 30%,33%,35%,38%, and 40% planes. The best flying planes were the 40% planes by far. The jump from 25-30% to 35% was major, as was the jump from 35% to 40%. Each time, it was WOW, what a great flying airplane. I still fly smaller airplanes, but there is just no comparison to the 40% airplanes I've flown.

Costs? (hide monitor from wives view)

All depends on what you use. High end hardware and engines, or low end.

My 40% cost on the average of $5k-$7k. My 35% on average ran $3K-$4K. My 33% was around $3.5K. And my smaller 25% and 30% ran from $1500 to $2200.

My recommendation will always be, buy the largest airplane you can afford to loose, can fit in your workshop, car/van/trailer, and can fly at your local club field.
Old 04-15-2003, 04:54 PM
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wgeffon
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Default So...WHY Giant Scale?

80cc on a 33% is a great combo if the plane stays under 25 lbs.

I think I am close to 3000.00 for my H9 Cap. I have Powerflites in it. They are a little pricey but totally worth every penny.

I am on the list for the new 35% Carden Extra 330. I should see it arrive sometime in June.
I am going to build it myself.
The cost will be close to 4K or a little more.

I want to try and keep the Cap RTF but if it needs to be sacraficed for funds for the Carden so be it.

My 33% Cap vids can be seen at:

Cap Vids

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