wohenzhuce

I just curious, will a side force generator (SFG) and air break look like the one used in F3P foam planes works on a TOC or gas 3D plane, such like 26cc or 50cc? Is that improve the plane's performance under the condition of stall significantly ? I'm here to ask cause i couldn't find any relevant pics or info, help please!

pe reivers

could you post a picture of what you mean?
Added baffles improve engine cooling, so the engine keeps running better.

Tired Old Man

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The 3w website provides some info and pics of engne baffles.

wohenzhuce

I mean this kind of baffles that used in indoor 3D plane, i may not use the word "baffles" correctly, please see pics below:

pe reivers

I thought it would not be for engine cooling, that is why I asked pictures.
Yes, they probably would improve handling of the plane, especialy in knife edge and slipping turns.
However, In TOC planes, the rules dictate a scale aircraft, so they would not be allowed.

flatspinjim

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I believe most people call them side force generators.

Tired Old Man

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I call them sales gimmicks....

flatspinjim

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You hit the nail on the head!

wohenzhuce

lol sales gimmicks,


anyway, i'll try those side force generators to see if that's a really sales gimmicks or not

Jimeni

Everyone said, the SFG's make a huge difference on the Funtana. I flew it with and without them. The only area of flight I even noticed was it may, and I stress may, have improved knife edges slightly, and significantly slowed roll rate. I couldnt land fast enough to get them back off. So yes they will do the same thing, nothing but be ugly.

As far as speed brakes, I would recommend going to the largest diameter, lowest pitch prop you can find. You will be amazed at the amount of drag you can create at idle. If you have a 26cc, use an 18x6 prop. Best for 3d, and braking

wohenzhuce

Many thanks, Jimeni

So, you point is that SFG doesn't work as i expect but speed brakes are really good thing to use. I just wanna improve the handle of plane while i'm trying to do Harrier or harrier roll and Hover.

Jimeni

I think either of those will hurt performance in harrier, and rolling harrier. Will not affect hover at all. As I mentioned, for that type of flying (3D) you want the largest diameter, lowest pitch prop you can get. So if you are using, for example, a 17x10 prop, you would want to switch to an 18x6, or even 19x6 if your engine will handle it. If your using a prop with lettering for pitch, say a 22B, you would want to go with a 22A or 23A. When you get tuned with the correct prop, it will give you all the braking you will ever need, without adding drag or weight to the plane. At idle in the air, it will act like a big dinner plate on the front of your plane.

Tired Old Man

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Might be a lot more effective to try some flaperon mixes. Most larger planes don't gain any significant advantage with them but foamies and some small electrics get an assist.

nitro wing

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The SFG on my X100 did wonders when doing slow KE,did not affect roll rate much.Did really well with in HA and Harriers showed a bit less rock.Slidy turns were affected though,as it coupled weird as it wanted to carve straight.I flew with them on and off,depending on what I wanted to do.Fun to experiment.

wohenzhuce

[][]that's too bad to hear that, i was thinking it may help me to do such aerobatics more easily or just like a foam 3D plane.

I had two 50cc gas plane, one was a futana another was Yak54, and they were very hard to handling, Wings were keep shaking left and right for a Harrier, and all rudders were dull while i was hovering. It's awful experience compare a foam 3D plane. I also tried you idea that increase the prop size and decrease patch, but that did not help alot, problem remains.

wohenzhuce

I'm thinking with a SFG and breaks helps, wings can drag and remain more airflow especially at a lower speed, but it's only in my imagination. I compared a foam 3d plane with SFG on or off, i found aileron rudders just more efficient (handling and response) with SFG on. But i've no idea what would happen if i put a SFG on a larger plane. Does that work at the same way?

therupman

Don't discount them too quickly. Remember how long it took the truckers with the airdams and the airlines with the winglets.
Bob R
Nashville

nitro wing

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There are probably other factors that are making you plane more difficult to fly than you want.You really need to work on set up,and not just expect to have a perfect flying plane right after you have built it.
The SFG's should be your last option,on top of a well set up aircraft.
I'll try to post a link to help you out.

nitro wing

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Start with this
http://www.geistware.com/rcmodeling/...tics/setup.htm

Flyfalcons

Yes they will work. Yes, they look really, really stupid.

Tired Old Man

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They do better for K/E stuff than anything else. They do look exceptionally stupid.

The wing rock problem in harriers is more a problem with the location of the horizontal stab. Combine that with carrying a little bit of aileron and too little pitch attitude and the maneuver can be extremely difficult.

custards1

i have seen qq with them on his planes cant be all that bad

Tired Old Man

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Run out to the next full scale aerobatics comp and take a look around. If Q.Q. jumped off a cliff would it then be the right thing to do?

wohenzhuce

lol... jump a cliff, i think SFG is a cool stuff on plane, not that stupid.

nitro wing, i cann't open the page you posted.

About the wing rock problem, i do not think it comes with a false set up or installation, not only my plane but also planes of my friends.
problem with unstabilized seems appearing at 50cc planes only, i flew a 100cc Yak54 of friend, it's much easier than any 50cc planes i've tried, KF, harrier and hovering is easy and simple, almost feel like flying a simulator...

Jimeni

Its the wing tips alternatively stalling. The only ways to overcome this are, counter it with ailerons, or do a lower alpha harrier with more speed, or go to a higher alpha harrier with less speed to get the load off of the wings. Calculate your wing loading, your plane may be too heavy. You want to stay below 28 oz per sq foot if possible 25 or less is awesome. If your wing loading is too high, it will not help, thats for sure. SFG'S WILL NOT HELP WITH WING ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 737's, 747's, gulfstreams ect. have some gain from them, and it is not aerobatics. Ask Patty Wagstaff how they would be on her Extra LMAO.

Also, you will only see QQ with them in advertisement for his aircraft. SFG's are like an elevator in an outhouse, just dont belong.