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Don Smith Cessna T-50

Old 11-17-2010, 05:37 PM
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Default RE: Don Smith Cessna T-50

Jeff.......here are a few pic's of bond paper fillets and other parts.....
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Old 11-17-2010, 05:49 PM
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Default RE: Don Smith Cessna T-50

.....thanks so much...

Rich.....AMA 524160
Old 11-17-2010, 06:34 PM
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Default RE: Don Smith Cessna T-50

Rich: I'm all set to make the tail wheel yoke...but probably not with the brake. My question is how did you securely attach 5/32 rod to the hole drilled in the yoke? Hope you don't regret responding top this thread...what with all these questions and all!!!
Again...beautiful job! You've raised the bar!
Murphey
Old 11-17-2010, 09:27 PM
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hi Murphey......sorry for the late response.........when I designed the main gear rims on AutoCad, I included a built in brake drum, thinking that I would install a mechanical or air operated brake system..........after much discussion with others, I began to have second thoughts.......so, the rims have been built just like my drawing.............they will have the detailed backing plate with all of the nuts and bolts, lines, clamps and brass fittings.......but no real brakes.........except for the tailwheel drag brake............okay.......in answer to your question on how I installed the 5/32 music wire..........first of all, I forgot to mention in my first description where I used the 1/2 steel rod to pull the 1/4 alum rod around......if you look at the pic you will notice a brass sleeve at the center section...........the actual dim. of the rod are as follows.....use a 1/4 (6.35mm) stock # 3045 from K&S or equiv.........this rod is 12" in length......so use it all for leverage when push comes to shove..........just kidding about that.........but do use the whole length..........now, from a length of .25 id brass tube, cuta section .313 (5/16).........clean up the edges...........install at the center of the alum rod.........add just a dab of canopy glueor white glue to one edge just to help keep it right on center.......that way you can remove later.......with this brass insert centeredin place..........now, I amtrusting my memory here on the bending process.......as I rcall,one half inch is whatI needed to make the bend...........so, looking around for that very strong steel rod came.............guess what?........drill bits come in all sizesand will work very well for this application..........so, go to your tool box and pick up a .5bit and chuck it up in your vice.........probably should use a worn out one if you can....with the bit firmly in place, place the rod right on it;s center point........which shouldbe the center point of the brass sleeve.........now, take a deep breath,.......then another.......and another..........just kidding again........now..........by hand.....slowly....... with equal pressure, pull the rod around the bit until you haveabout 1.0in between forks at a point 2.0in from the center point of the bend.......this is not critical.......many adjustments can bemade later to derive at scale.........these measurements will get you there for now..........I am tired.......so, next we willblab about finishingthe yoke......drilling and taping for set screws etc, etc.......andinstalling the steering shaft.........then on yo the fun part............soldering!!!!!!

Rich...
Old 11-17-2010, 10:12 PM
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Default RE: Don Smith Cessna T-50

Murphey..........these are all of the photos that I took of the tailwheel and it's construction.........
Old 11-17-2010, 10:20 PM
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Default RE: Don Smith Cessna T-50

....sorry Murphey.......the last batch of photos were bad...........lets try again..........Rich.
Old 11-18-2010, 08:32 AM
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Default RE: Don Smith Cessna T-50

With you so far Rich! I have the tire/wheel you described and the 7/8" OD washers. I'll stop by the LHS at lunch today and pick up the aluminum rod and brass tube.
Murphey
Old 11-18-2010, 03:20 PM
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Default RE: Don Smith Cessna T-50

Richard, I enjoyed your posts. Keep up the good work. It is imperative that you complete and test fly the Bobcat before Bomber Field next year.
Old 11-18-2010, 06:42 PM
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Default RE: Don Smith Cessna T-50

......yeeeeeahhhhhhh..........I''am with you all of thu way..........go "COWBOYS"............glad you enjoyed the read Ken.........thanks so much for your support........I wiil put my best foot forward and do my very best to have her ready for "Bomber Field"...............promise.

Rich.
Old 11-18-2010, 08:36 PM
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......thats great Murphey...........I do try to be very specific with the details........the Du-Bro tire I mentioned is really a 2.25........not a 2.0.......so, I hope that is what they gave you...........if not, it will still work.........justnot as close to scale...........now, since you havejust purchased the building materials .and are ready to start forming the yoke. I would like to make another correction before you make the bendas per the first letter..........we can call it......revision "A"..............not really, just kidding again..............anyway, in thefirst letter.....relying on my memory, I suggested using the shank of a 1/2 in drill bit to form the yoke...................well,I need to correct that.............now,thisis the thuth!..........to form the yoke into the shape shown in the photos you will need a3/4 in bit shank........or steel tube........or hard wood dowel.........they should all work fine to make the bend............now slide the 5/16 in length of 1/4 id tube to the center of the 1/4 x 12in solid alum rod........then tack in place at one edge with a water base glue..........so it can be removed later with water.............now, with a sharpie or otherfine tip marking device........locate the center of the brass sleeve...........now, in your vice, chuck up the 3/4 in form that you will use to pull the 1/4 alum rod arround..........now pull it thru as described in thefirst letter...........you should have at least 1.0 in of clearance between the forks to accomidate tire.........if you got all of that down to this point, then we are ready for the next step............cuttingthepart to length........shaping itto create that one of a kind lookof the real Bobcat tailwheel yoke............afterthat, will be........ howto set up fordrilling the steering shaft.........then the axel and axel set screws..........
later.............Rich
Old 11-18-2010, 11:34 PM
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Default RE: Don Smith Cessna T-50

Thanks Rich! I do have the 2.25 dia Du-Bro...and I do have a 3/4" bar, so I will give it another shot! I do appreciate your help!

Murphey
Old 11-19-2010, 12:12 AM
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Default RE: Don Smith Cessna T-50

Good News...I now have the beginnings of a yoke, bent as you described. Success! Now I'm ready for the next step but I'm going to be chasing the elusive Chinese Chicken (Pheasant) in NE Colorado for the weekend. Back on Monday!
Murphey
Old 11-19-2010, 10:28 AM
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Default RE: Don Smith Cessna T-50

Murphey, you really need to see the pieces in person that Rich turns out to appreciate them. They are always museum quality. He is retired from Vought and in on the retired employees team that restores full scale aircraft. When they were restoring a Corsair Rich built the throttle quadrant because a real one wasn't available. It was a work of art. Here he is sitting under the belly of the Corsair.
Old 11-22-2010, 10:49 AM
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Default RE: Don Smith Cessna T-50

Thanks for the note and picture Ken! You can obviously tell Rich is an artest in his work! One of the advantages of the internet and RCU is that us "shade tree" modlers have the ability to learn from the best!

So, I'm back from my bird hunting trip...it's a long story but I probably would have been a more productive weekend had I stayed home and worked on the T-50!

Rich: I'm ready for the next step...drilling and attaching the 5/32 wire to the aluminum yoke...if you are ready!

Thanks

Murphey
Old 11-26-2010, 04:43 PM
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Default RE: Don Smith Cessna T-50



With a little time and a bit of trial and error, I've made a tail wheel yoke similar to what Rich has been walking me through! As I mentioned before, I didn't use the break option and instead of using 7/8" OD washers, I made then from a piece of plastic.
Hope you all had a great Thanksgiving!
Murphey (As in Murphey's Law)
Old 11-26-2010, 04:47 PM
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Default RE: Don Smith Cessna T-50

how do you attach the brass sleeve to the aluminum yoke?
Old 11-27-2010, 12:06 AM
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Jeff: The way I did it is as follows: The 5/16" length of brass tube that slides over the 1/4" aluminum for is captive when the rod is bent forming the yoke. Then the yoke is placed on a jig that allows a 5/32" hole to be drilled through the brass and aluminum at a 45 degree angle. I pushed a length of 5/32" music wire through brass / aluminum thern slid a brass tube with a 5/32 ID over the music wire, then another short piece of brass tubing over that one. I also filed the brass tubes to fit the contour of the captive tube. Then the entire assembly is silver soldered, all at the same time. Where the music wire protrudes from the bottom of the yoke gets soldered as well. So to answer your question...the brass isn't soldered to the aluminum. As far as I can tell, this is the way that Rich made his...

Murphey
Old 11-28-2010, 02:38 PM
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Default RE: Don Smith Cessna T-50

All,

WOW, I'm blown away. this is great. I'm so releved....
I acquired one of the original DS t-50 kits a few years back, and then got plans and the fiberglass parts from "Precision Cut Kits" 2 years ago, and have been collecting other bits since then, I plan on starting this winter (I too was a Sky King fan as a kid and plan on a "Songbird" paint/cover job).
Until this thread, info on this plane has been very thin. Thanks Soooooo much for starting this thread and to all that have and continue to contribute !!!.

I have a ton of questions. But will keep it brief this time out

Engines - My original desire was to go with twins. Precision Cuts list the required power as a pair of ".91s". I assume they are talking 2-cycle ? . I can't put a 2 cycle engine in the plane like this and am pretty fixed on using 4 cycle engine. I was told that satio 90 or 100 twins were under power and the next step up would be over power (182) . During a satio sale last year I bought 2 satio 125s. Are these going to provide enough power ?

Weight - I've heard varying accounts of how much to expect this plane to weight, any where from 25 to 35 lbs. That's quite a range. Can someone give me some more concrete figures??

Alterations - In order to save some weight and add some strength I was thinking of using Carbon fiber is some places. CF sandwiched ply in the Nacelles/wings/Fuse and CF spars in the wings and some stringers in the fuse/Stab. thoughts ?

Also, because of transport limitations I'm going to have to split the wing, there is no way around this. the decision is where. Either (A) in the middle and deal with all the connect/disconnect issues involved, OR (B) split just outside of each nacelle in which case the inner wing/nacelles remain attached to the fuse during transport OR possibly become a permanent part of the fuse. Each method had it's advances/disadvantages and would require the addition of wing tubes and present different attachment problems but first I need to decide which way to go. I'm leaning toward "B" (I setup my B-25 (TF ARF) this way). Any thoughts or suggestions in this area would be appreciated.

Again, I'm so relieved that there is a source of some experience with this kit. Documentation is non-existent. I've leaned toward ARF's the last few years but have built "kit" planes before in the early days but nothing on this scale and that was before I was putting this kind of money/time into planes also. Any help and advice is welcome.

Joel Hughen
AMA 240072
Old 11-28-2010, 02:58 PM
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Default RE: Don Smith Cessna T-50

Kudos to anyone that has a Bamboo Bomber.

It's on my list to build one day. I do have the old Wing short kit and all the glass parts for it. Only 80" which is fine for me.

Scale gear, at that size will be an issue? Cross that bridge when I come to it.

Hope you don't mind these photos?

Good luck with your builds!

Old 11-28-2010, 03:13 PM
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Joel: I'm powering mine with G-26's. I'm convinced at this point that this is adequate power. Not sure how a .91 2 stroke would properly power it, but perhaps I'm under estimating the power of a .91 glow!!.

To the 3 piece wing, I wish I had done that myself...but it's too late! I would go with the wing split after the nacelle. But I wouldn't make it a permanent part of the fuse however. There is plenty of room between ribs 1 and 3 for radio gear and battery(s) and you will want access to that area.

I think the finished weight has a lot to do with how much scale appointments one does. I'm hoping to come in closer to the 25 end rather than the 35+ range...with the operative word being "hope". As soon as I get my landing gear installed, I can get a rough weight and guestimate the finished weight.

I have the Robart T-50 retracts. Their website says discontinued but I emailed them and they said they could build a set. I'm having "Down and Locked" convert them to electric...I never was comfortable with air up and air down...

Let me know if you are indeed going with the Sky King version. I have the Flying Crown logo, original November number and other graphics and can connect you with Cal-Graphics, who made them for me, and they could make another set.

Murphey (As in Murphey's law)
Old 11-28-2010, 05:48 PM
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Default RE: Don Smith Cessna T-50

Murphey,

Thanks for the reply.

I am leaning toward the 3 piece split. As far as making the middle section permanent goes, If I went that way I definitely would want to retain access under that section and if done would put a hatch there. the advantages for making it permament is I could eliminate all the disconnects (servos, glow driver, twin sync, air, etc) and I could go with a central Tank/pump in the fuse. On the other leaving it "as designed" might be easier to implement. I need to study this further.

25lbs is my target also, at 25lbs your still looking at a wing loading of 35oz/sq in. At 35lbs that's 49 oz/sq in. which is closer the space shuttle .

I have a set of the robarts that I got from a guy that crashed his a few years back and was able to get the parts I needed to repair them from robart. I looked on the robart site a month ago and they are listing them again as available. Anyway, I too have never been happy with air retracts and all the problems they can have and the fact that they don't look scale when they work. let me know how your "Down and locked" mod goes (how much did they want for that ?). I was thinking of replacing the actuators with electric ones from Lado but haven't got that far yet.

I'm definitely going with a songbird paint scheme. The question is which one. I've done some on research on it a some correspondence with a few different folks. At least as far as I can find, there are no color "production" photos from the show. There are some promo composite shots but none from the set. Add to that sometimes a different plane was sometimes used on the ground and then again for some B-roll air to air shots. I wrote Gloria (penny) a couple of years ago but didn't get a response (she has since died). I got third party input who had claimed to have talked to the key grip on the show about the color scheme used but he was unsure. I ran some test using the BW film specs from the time and applied to several of the "contending" schemes and compared them with "frames" from the show and it looks like a wash between the red/gray and the blue/rust schemes you see out there. I guess one could justify just about any of them out there. I'm leaning toward the blue/rust but haven't decided yet. All of them use the "flying crown" logo and N number. I have seen different versions of the script "Songbird". If you've uncovered any info that would be great.

Looking forward to following this thread and hopefully contributing soon.

Joel

Old 11-28-2010, 06:25 PM
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Joel: I too found that there is not much info on the Songbird. There were at least 2 and 1 studio version. I've watched all of the remaining original Sky King episodes. Often 1 plane took off and another one was seen in flight. One thing was fairly consistent and that was the November number, N67832. I also noticed different paint schemes so I've picked 1. And since there are no color photos of the Songbird, I'm going with Wimbelton White (color of my 66 Mustang) and red trim. But that's a ways off.

On mine, the only connections between the wing and the fuse are the rudder and elevator servo's. All other connections are in the wing (flap servos, aileron servos, throttle servos, gear, ignition Kill, dual batteries and receiver. In reading the Twin Forum here on RCU, the general consensus is that a single tank is more trouble. There is room in each nacelle for a tank.

Do you plan on finishing the interior?

M
Old 11-28-2010, 06:51 PM
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Default RE: Don Smith Cessna T-50

Murphey,

ORIGINAL: Murphey
On mine, the only connections between the wing and the fuse are the rudder and elevator servo's. All other connections are in the wing (flap servos, aileron servos, throttle servos, gear, ignition Kill, dual batteries and receiver.
So is all that gear mounted to the section of the wing that's inside the Fuse ??

Do you plan on finishing the interior?
I'm not sure yet. While I like building, I really like flying. My first thought was to buildin such a way so I could come back and add detail to the cockpit, but hadn't planned on a full scale cockpit to start. I've seen a cockpit kit for this model. does anyone here have any first hand experience with it ??

BTW Rich, I love what you did with the door. looks great.

Joel

Old 11-28-2010, 07:50 PM
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Yes, all of the gear less the elevator and rudder servos are in the wing. In the center section, I have the receiver, dual batteries, and gear controller. In each Nacelle, there is a throttle servo, kill switch, ignition battery, fuel tank and of course the retracts. Outboard of the nacelle is the flap servo and outboard of that is the aileron servo...whew...that's busy!

Dynamic Balsa has an interior kit. I didn't like the seats so I made them from foam and fabric covered. The instrument panel is pretty accurate according to some photos I've seen of the T-50, although there are several versions I haven't found any photos of the panel on the Songbird.

I ventured from scale a bit on the door. I made the door to open, but couldn't bring myself to cut the longeron in the middle of the door or the main stringer at the top...But I ahve to admit, the door Rich built is beautiful!

M
Old 11-28-2010, 09:44 PM
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Default RE: Don Smith Cessna T-50

Murphey,

Are you "Steering" your tail with the rudder servo or leaving it "free turning" ?? I like your and Rich's tail wheels. (BTW nice photos from you both, hope thre are more coming). I was going to use bent flat stock for the yoke but I like that tube look better. Looks more scale, but don't thnik I'll go as far as the drag brake, but hey you never know. I'm not going for show scale but more of a "fun" scale. I haven't decided on the functional door yet.

Does anyone reading this thread have one of the Don Smith T-50's flying ?? I'd lreally like to get a loose list of owners, even if it's just using online names.

Have any of you here found any other threads on any of the forums with info/experiences with the DS t-50 ??

thanks

Joel

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