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First Gasser... Pilot Extra 260/DLE 55

Old 02-24-2011, 01:53 PM
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Default First Gasser... Pilot Extra 260/DLE 55

I have a new Pilot 50cc Extra 260 w/DLE55 and its my first gasser. I'm using a Spectrum DX7 2.4 and I'm looking at getting servo's and battery power for the plane. With all the choices out there I thought of asking you pro's what direction I should go.

I know I have to get a 4.8v battery for the ignition and a switch (servo controlled)

I have been flying the 120 size a/c for a long while and now I just need to know what I will need for this set up. Any suggestions?
I would like to keep it simple and not have to get into regulators and all that.

I have several a/c that I fly regularly and I will be adding this to my fleet. So, when I go to the field, this will not be my primary a/c to fly....well, at least not at first anyway

I would like to stick to the JR or spectrum batteries and servo's if possible. Hitec will work if thats the best solution however, I'm not really sure. I hear about the A123 batteries but I'm not familure with them at all. Don't have a charger for that chemistry either. I have heard about redundant power systems also but again, I'm not familure with those set ups either. I guess I'm just a KISS kinda guy... I keep my birds flying that way too!!

I'm currently a sport flyer and not a 3D pilot.... yet. I have done allot of the 3D manouvers on the sim but, not in the air with my own plane[8D] So, in saying that....I would like to set up the plane to be able to 3D but I will set its controls less aggressive at first until I get comfortable with it.

Thanks for your help in advance everyone!
Old 02-24-2011, 03:30 PM
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Default RE: First Gasser... Pilot Extra 260/DLE 55

First of all, Gary, welcome to the world of giant scale and gas power. You're in for a lifetime of misery, heartache, pulling your hair out, and general blood, sweat, and tears...you know, all the fun stuff.

As for your questions...my input is below. nothing says it's "right", or that anyone else is "wrong"...there's a dozen different ways to do things on these bigger birds, and usually, 11 of them work just fine.

All I can say is you've done the right thing by asking, but be ready for some disagreement amongst the various answers. Find the explanations that make sense to you, and go with what makes you sleep best at night.

ORIGINAL: GaryA
I know I have to get a 4.8v battery for the ignition and a switch (servo controlled)
Not at all. Lots of options will work fine for the ignition. a 5cell 6V NiMh or NiCd pack would be fine, or even a 2S Lipo regulated down to 6v would be fine.

Nothing says your ignition switch needs to be 'servo controlled' either...in fact, I don't recall EVER seeing one that was. Now, there certainly are some folks who will include an optical ignition cutoff system in a gasser (though, as well, many don't...and even fewer with the smaller 50cc planes). Not saying you can't do this if you wish, and there may well be reasons you'd want to...but nothing says you 'have to" (unless, perhaps, local club/field rules require it).

By far, in my experience anyway, the majority of gassers I've seen, from 30cc to 200cc, rely on the choke servo to shut the engine off, and use "manual" ignition switches.

I would like to keep it simple and not have to get into regulators and all that.
KISS, is a pretty terrific starting point for a gasser. Fewer things to break = fewer breaks!

I have several a/c that I fly regularly and I will be adding this to my fleet. So, when I go to the field, this will not be my primary a/c to fly....well, at least not at first anyway
THAT attitude will last about...oh...a week.

I would like to stick to the JR or spectrum batteries and servo's if possible. Hitec will work if thats the best solution however, I'm not really sure.
Nothing wrong with either of those brands. Select servos and power components from known brands, with good reputations and good support, and be willing to go ahead and spend a few extra bucks to do it, and you'll be fine. Just select components that are a good 25-50% above the manual's "minimum". If the manual says "Servos with at leats 100 ozin of torque", find some with, say, 125-150 or better, and you'll be in no danger of pushing components to their limits.

PERSONALLY, I have a preference for HiTecs. I've used them on quite a few gassers, 40cc to 111cc, and had spectacular luck. nothing says they're the be all and end all, by any means, I just happen to have had good luck, so i like sticking with the brand. Again...any well known, respected brand will do you just fine. Just don't try and save $20 on knock-offs, and regret it later.

I hear about the A123 batteries but I'm not familure with them at all. Don't have a charger for that chemistry either. I have heard about redundant power systems also but again, I'm not familure with those set ups either. I guess I'm just a KISS kinda guy... I keep my birds flying that way too!!
Ahh yes, the great battery debate.

All i'll toss out there for this one is that I've watched, tested, observed, and documented, down to the last Amp, 4 cell NiCd/NiMh packs do some awfully funny things with several brands of 2.4Ghz receivers, and, frankly, _I_ would not trust any airplane, regardless of size, flying with such a combination. That's just me. Certainly, plenty of guys have done it, and are doing it. Take it for what it's worth.

Our own AMA president said, oh roughly 1-1.5 yrs ago, that he felt that a 5cell, 6.0v pack was a MINIMUM for 2.4GhZ systems in any airplane.

Finally, keep in mind that your bigger airplane uses more powerful servos swinging larger surfaces...this means your new gasser will draw CONSIDERABLY more current (Amps) from the battery than ANY plane you're familiar with.

All these things considered, I, personally, am a BIG fan of a 2cell LiPo or equivalent A123 pack in a gasser. yes, it means buying a new charger, but reliable Lithium chemistry chargers can be had for < $50, and plenty of advice exists in their manuals and on this forum to charge the packs safely. In my opinion, when you're comitting $1500 or so of airplane to the air, hanging on nothing but an invisible radio link, a little overkill in the electrical department is probably not a bad thing. Again...it's not so much that other arrangements WON'T handle things, but I, for one, sleep better at night knowing there's no QUESTION about whether my system WILL or not.

As for redundant power systems...certainly doable if you wish, but the general consensus seems to be that they are unneccesary in 50cc 'smaller" airplanes. Most seem to feel they have a place in 100cc and larger, but not in the 30-50cc class. For what it's worth, i concur, and have set up my own big planes by that 'standard", and have had good luck with both systems.

I'm currently a sport flyer and not a 3D pilot.... yet. I have done allot of the 3D manouvers on the sim but, not in the air with my own plane[8D] So, in saying that....I would like to set up the plane to be able to 3D but I will set its controls less aggressive at first until I get comfortable with it.
Nothing wrong with that! Go fly, have fun, and do what you enjoy! if you're happy, and the airplane is happy, then that's what this is all about!
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Old 02-28-2011, 06:12 AM
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Default RE: First Gasser... Pilot Extra 260/DLE 55

gboulton,

Thanks very much for all of your wisdom. I really appreciate you input. I have a few questions regarding the batteries and the choke.

Now I seem to understand that the choke should be what will cut the engine after a flight from the radio. I thought it was a remote switch to the ignition. My bad! I will prob use a standard servo for that purpose. Additionally I will use a switch on the outside of the plane for the ignition and the receiver power for complete shut down of the power.

On the battery.... I have a Venom pro charger and it says it will charge the Life chemistry batteries. Is that the same as the A123 battery? Would you use that chemistry on both the ign and the receiver? If I do, I know I will have to regulate the ign battery to 4.8v or 6.0v. I have a DLE 55 for this plane.

I will probably go wit hthe Spectrum A6030 that has 275+ oz/in torque. Should I use one with more than that on the rudder? Its funny that the instructions do not say what to use at all. It only shows the building process and not the specifications.

Thanks again for your input on this.

Gary
Old 02-28-2011, 06:38 AM
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Default RE: First Gasser... Pilot Extra 260/DLE 55


ORIGINAL: GaryA
Now I seem to understand that the choke should be what will cut the engine after a flight from the radio. I thought it was a remote switch to the ignition. My bad! I will prob use a standard servo for that purpose. Additionally I will use a switch on the outside of the plane for the ignition and the receiver power for complete shut down of the power.
That is indeed how MOST do it on a 50cc plane, and many on the larger 100-150cc airplanes. Again, you'll certainly find those who recommend the optical cutoff (or some secondary ignition cutoff) and there's nothing wrong with the idea. it's additional weight and complexity, but it's also another way to shut down an engine should a choke servo fail.

One thing i've seen done (and have done myself) by folks who run without an ignition cutoff from the radio is to set up the throttle servo such that bottoming out the throttle trim closes the carb, and kills the engine, just like a glow plane would be set up. This way, you have TWO servos (choke and throttle) that can kill the engine if necessary.

Again...entirely up to you, and whatever requirements your club/field may have...but the plan you've outlined is certainly widely used and accepted.

On the battery.... I have a Venom pro charger and it says it will charge the Life chemistry batteries. Is that the same as the A123 battery? Would you use that chemistry on both the ign and the receiver? If I do, I know I will have to regulate the ign battery to 4.8v or 6.0v. I have a DLE 55 for this plane.
Yep...A123=LiFe.

I can't relay any experience with A123's, as I've never run them. There are many on here who have, however, and I'm sure someone can provide more advice. Suffice to say they're certainly preferable on the Rx than a NiCd/NiMh pack, yes.

As for the ignition, no reason that I am aware of to run a LiPo or A123 there unless you just want to. As mentioned before, a 5cell NiMh will do the job fine, and save you the worry of a regulator. of course, this DOES leave you with multiple chemistries in the airplane, which some (myself included) wish to avoid. Personally, I prefer the extra expense of Regulators and Lithium packs to give me consistent capacities and chemistries through the airplane. One charger setting does the trick. Again, however, personal preference.

I will probably go wit hthe Spectrum A6030 that has 275+ oz/in torque. Should I use one with more than that on the rudder? Its funny that the instructions do not say what to use at all. It only shows the building process and not the specifications.
Haven't flown them myself, but don't know of any bad reports, or reason those wouldn't work. I certainly think they'll be plenty powerful enough to keep you well away from stressing them.

And no, I can't IMMAGINE you'd need more than 1 on the Rudder. I'm flying a heavier 50-cc airplane on a good bit less rudder servo than that, with no issues. IMO, 1 will be plenty.


Old 02-28-2011, 06:56 AM
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Default RE: First Gasser... Pilot Extra 260/DLE 55

Actually, I went back and looked again and it does have the servo specs. It says to use a min of 150 oz/in torque. So, I could get away with using a servo with less torque. I was just looking at the Hitec HS5645MG at 168 oz/in torque @ 6.0v. What would be your thoughts on that servo?

Yeah, I really don't have a prob with two chemistries on in the plane and I would be able to get away from a regulator also.
Old 02-28-2011, 08:42 AM
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Default RE: First Gasser... Pilot Extra 260/DLE 55

I see your in St Augustine, feel free to make a trip up on a Saturday and hang out, several of us have gassers and would be happy to help you out and you can look at our setups in person.

The web site is in my signature.

Here's my take, and as GBoulton correctly pointed out, that doesn't mean I'm right or wrong, I'm just telling you what I've seen or what works for me. That said, I've been into RC forever, and go to a lot of events, and am a member of the Florida Freestyle Aerobatics Assoc. that promotes giant scale flying and helping members achieve success.

You have a couple of options and they have been well explained. The only thing I will add is that I wouldn't run a 5 cell on the ignition, some of the ignitions wont take well to the fully charged voltage. It's always safe to run a 4 cell pack on the ignition, its lighter, and you get no benefit from a 5 cell pack there.

What I do for 50CC is run a single 2200mah A123 pack with a diode step down for the ignition. This lasts several flights and charges in 15 minutes or so with a decent charger.

As for the rudder, I'd reccomend a Hitec 7955TG or one with similar specs if you're going to be doing 3D or knife edge.

Again, I invite you to come fly with us at any time, all you need is a valid AMA card to fly at our field and you can feel free to check with me to see if I'm going to be around a particular day.
Old 02-28-2011, 08:55 AM
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Default RE: First Gasser... Pilot Extra 260/DLE 55

Thanks for your reply BarracudaHockey.

I would agree on running the 4 cell on the ignition and that is what I had intended on also.

On the servo issue, I'm going to be pulling the trigger on the servo purchase pretty soon and I hear you on the more powerful servo for the rudder. What is your thought on the 5645Mg for the elevators and ailerons? I could get the 7955 for the rudder and the all others be 5645?

Thanks for your help. I would love to come up and check it out. I saw that your weekend was on the news flying for the kids. Thats awesome!!

Gary
Old 02-28-2011, 09:00 AM
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Default RE: First Gasser... Pilot Extra 260/DLE 55

Gary,<div>
</div><div>I've run the 5645 in MANY applications, and love it.  Solid servo for the price, should do everything you need in that airplane.</div><div>
</div><div>Personally, I think it'd even be ok on the rudder, but more rudder never hurt anyone!    Andy's suggestion of a 79555TG may be overkill, but they're top notch servos...I run them on my 110" EF Yak, and love them.</div><div>
</div><div>I think you'd be fine with either choice, or any combination of them.</div><div>
</div><div>Andy's right on the ignition battery as well.  no need to run a 5 cell up front (though ime, the DLE-55 handles the pack fine)...i'm just a fan of overdoing it on electrical power all around the airplane is all.  A 4-cell NiMh up there would, of course, be just fine as he said.</div><div>
</div><div>
</div>
Old 03-08-2011, 12:20 PM
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Default RE: First Gasser... Pilot Extra 260/DLE 55

OK, I have pulled the trigger on the survo's and I went ahead with the Spectrum A6030 servos. I purchased 5 of them, 2 for the elevator, 2 for the Alerions and 1 for the Rudder. 278 oz/in of torque should get it done. I'll use smaller JR digitals for the throttle and choke.

So, now I'm back to my battery power situation.. I think I will go with a 1500mah NiMH @ 4.8v for the ignition and for the reciever, I thought of going with a 4500 mah NiMH 5 cell. I will use two heavy duty switch's one on each battery.

I have been looking at the A123 battery for the receiver but, I'm just not that knowledgeable about that chemistry at all. I have reviewed allot of different articals on here and its just confused me even more.

I'm still not too sure.... maybe I need to head up to Jax and see those guys and how they have set up their giant scales. []
Old 03-08-2011, 01:22 PM
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Default RE: First Gasser... Pilot Extra 260/DLE 55

C'mon up!

Call this guy, name of Richard at 386-308-1481 and ask him about A123's, tell him Andy from Jax sent you.

He will talk your ears off then give you a good deal if you decide to get some.
Old 04-04-2011, 11:09 AM
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Default RE: First Gasser... Pilot Extra 260/DLE 55

Its coming along slowly but surely!!

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Old 04-04-2011, 11:15 AM
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Default RE: First Gasser... Pilot Extra 260/DLE 55

Looks good.

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